A good perspective of giving Tee the big money extention

[Destro]

Not even sure how I feel on the whole thing, but I actually caught a radio discussion about the Bengals today. The guy was mostly against tagging Tee, considering it eats too much cap space when what you need is people in other areas. he mentioned how we just watched the Chiefs go back to back and they were considered foolish getting rid of Hill. The explanation was an elite QB, like Mahomes, Burrow, Brady won't need to have multiple All-Pro receivers in order to win. Great WR will be great, even if double teamed. All that does is open up your other receivers to make a play, as this elite QB drops a dime into their hands. These kind of players can be found in the draft for cheap.

Retaining Tee likely means not drafting a WR earlier, so we go with what we have, with less money to spend in other places, and next year he can still be gone. Thought process is to "retain, retain, retain" when it comes to players, but there can be detrimental to the team overall. You have players under contract, you can have guys you can get, that may or may not be as good as Tee, but you will have them, cheaper, plus be able to invest where your biggest needs are, and with a franchise QB and WR, those positions should be back burners.

I don't know if I agree or not, but his argument sounded fairly solid.

[casear2727]

(02-13-2024, 09:47 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: It shouldn't be wild when you consider how many times the Bengals broke away from what they typically do. 

How many times, that do not include Burrow?

[SunsetBengal]

(02-13-2024, 09:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Perhaps, but my point is many will bring up injury history when they don't want to sign a player. JB was injured when we signed him 

IMO, injury is part of the game. There's little doubt Tee has been dinged, but he's avoided major injury and I wouldn't consider him "damaged" or Injury-prone. 

WTS, I have 0 issue letting Tee walk, but it wouldn't be because of his injury history; it'd be because I want to use that $20 Mil to bring in a defensive stud such as Chris Jones. 

There's a somewhat large difference between signing your franchise QB whose been injured in part due to the team around him for what he's truly worth, and overpaying for a secondary WR.  If this were the Andy Dalton era Bengals, I could see it. But now, we have a QB that can elevate those around him.

[NotBigzo]

(02-13-2024, 10:19 PM)casear2727 Wrote: How many times, that do not include Burrow?

Picking a Heisman trophy QB with the first overall pick isn't a deviation from what the Bengals typically do? 

THeir spending in FA is unprecendented.

Getting a Ring a Honor was unprecendented.

Getting an Indoor Practice Facility was unprecedented. 

[casear2727]

(02-13-2024, 10:28 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Picking a Heisman trophy QB with the first overall pick isn't a deviation from what the Bengals typically do? 

THeir spending in FA is unprecendented.

Getting a Ring a Honor was unprecendented.

Getting an Indoor Practice Facility was unprecedented. 

"Picking a Heisman trophy QB with the first overall pick isn't a deviation from what the Bengals typically do?"

Is this a serious question?  We have done this before, how long have you been a fan?  Maybe stick with Dallas Cowboys history?




"THeir spending in FA is unprecendented."

We rolled over 10M in cap space to 2024.



"Getting a Ring a Honor was unprecendented"

Dont come at me with marketing tactics like ROH, what an amateur take. 




"Getting an Indoor Practice Facility was unprecedented."

We have had plans for the indoor facility for almost a decade, when the property became available, we built it.  You really dont know much about the team do you?



We do not makes trades, we are still limited on guaranteed money and creative salary cap adjustments.  Tag and trading Tee isnt an impossibility but it would be far from our standard operation. 

[*bfine32*]

(02-13-2024, 10:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There's a somewhat large difference between signing your franchise QB whose been injured in part due to the team around him for what he's truly worth, and overpaying for a secondary WR.  If this were the Andy Dalton era Bengals, I could see it. But now, we have a QB that can elevate those around him.

Both have been injured from playing football; it's just JB's have been more severe. 

If we franchise Tee; it's not over-paying. $20 MIL puts him at/below the likes of DK Metcalf, Mike Williams, DJ Moore, and Terry Maclaren. Who knows, maybe Tee will sign the "team friendly" deal many said JB would.

As I said; I'm not opposed to, in fact,  I'm in favor of letting Tee walk if we spend the money on talent. 

[casear2727]

(02-13-2024, 10:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Both have been injured from playing football; it's just JB's have been more severe. 

If we franchise Tee; it's not over-paying. $20 MIL puts him at/below the likes of DK Metcalf, Mike Williams, DJ Moore, and Terry Maclaren. Who knows, maybe Tee will sign the "team friendly" deal many said JB would.

As I said; I'm not opposed to, in fact,  I'm in favor of letting Tee walk if we spend the money on talent. 

The only thing about this is the fact that DK Metcalf, Mike Williams, DJ Moore, and Terry McLaurin are all WR1.

[Frank Booth]

(02-13-2024, 10:57 PM)casear2727 Wrote: The only thing about this is the fact that DK Metcalf, Mike Williams, DJ Moore, and Terry McLaurin are all WR1.

Mike Williams is a true WR2. It's just that the chargers dont have any good receivers. Allen has declined like Boyd

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-13-2024, 10:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There's a somewhat large difference between signing your franchise QB whose been injured in part due to the team around him for what he's truly worth, and overpaying for a secondary WR.  If this were the Andy Dalton era Bengals, I could see it. But now, we have a QB that can elevate those around him.

Pretty much. Lamar has been just as injury prone as Burrow and he still got his bag. Franchise QB’s are just a totally different matter.

[*bfine32*]

(02-13-2024, 10:57 PM)casear2727 Wrote: The only thing about this is the fact that DK Metcalf, Mike Williams, DJ Moore, and Terry McLaurin are all WR1.

There are quite a few #1 WRs that aren't as good as Tee. 

[NotBigzo]

(02-13-2024, 10:39 PM)casear2727 Wrote: "Picking a Heisman trophy QB with the first overall pick isn't a deviation from what the Bengals typically do?"

Is this a serious question?  We have done this before, how long have you been a fan?  Maybe stick with Dallas Cowboys history?




"THeir spending in FA is unprecendented."

We rolled over 10M in cap space to 2024.



"Getting a Ring a Honor was unprecendented"

Dont come at me with marketing tactics like ROH, what an amateur take. 




"Getting an Indoor Practice Facility was unprecedented."

We have had plans for the indoor facility for almost a decade, when the property became available, we built it.  You really dont know much about the team do you?



We do not makes trades, we are still limited on guaranteed money and creative salary cap adjustments.  Tag and trading Tee isnt an impossibility but it would be far from our standard operation. 

The post that I replied to implied that getting Burrow or something about the Bengals acquiring Burrow was unprecedented. You asked what have the done that's unprecedented that didn't involve Burrow:



I listed three things that the Benglas have done that are out of the ordinary, and you instead hyper fixate on one part of my reply where I don't even say what you think I said.  Then you handwave other clear-cut examples of the Bengals going against the grain because reasons?

I'll reply to your future posts if they make sense.

[casear2727]

(02-13-2024, 11:18 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: The post that I replied to implied that getting Burrow or something about the Bengals acquiring Burrow was unprecedented. You asked what have the done that's unprecedented other than Burrow.

I listed three things that the Benglas have done that are out of the ordinary, and you instead hyper fixate on one part of my reply where I don't even say what you think I said. 

I'll reply to your future posts if they make sense.

The conversation is regarding tag and trading Tee.  I wish we did trades period.  We seemingly only move very disgruntled players.

We did not acquire Burrow, we drafted him. The fact that you are unaware of Carson Palmer is telling.

[casear2727]

(02-13-2024, 11:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There are quite a few #1 WRs that aren't as good as Tee. 

Maybe, but paying a WR1 vs paying a WR2 on a team in which the WR1 will eventually top the market is the differentiator I was alluding to, albeit poorly.

[NotBigzo]

(02-13-2024, 11:22 PM)casear2727 Wrote: The conversation is regarding tag and trading Tee.  I wish we did trades period.  We seemingly only move very disgruntled players.

We did not acquire Burrow, we drafted him. The fact that you are unaware of Carson Palmer is telling.

I'm aware of Palmer. I was confused by your question because it implied that getting/involving Burrow was outside the norm. 

The Bengals have done things that they typically don't do over the years. It's not outside the realm of possibility that they tag and trade Tee. 

It's really not that complicated, dude. 

[*bfine32*]

(02-13-2024, 11:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Pretty much. Lamar has been just as injury prone as Burrow and he still got his bag. Franchise QB’s are just a totally different matter.

I'd venture to say their paths to getting a franchise deal were not similar. 

[casear2727]

(02-13-2024, 11:25 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: I'm aware of Palmer. I was confused by your question because it implied that getting/involving Burrow was outside the norm. 

The Bengals have done things that they typically don't do over the years. It's not outside the realm of possibility that they tag and trade Tee. 

It's really not that complicated, dude. 

I said it wasnt an impossibility, dude.

[*Nately120*]

I'll believe the NEW DEY stuff a bit better if we actually trade Tee in some fashion. The old Bengals would tag him and then let him walk at the end of the season when a desperate GM who doesn't have a job for life like Mike Brown will offer him insane money. Would we get a 3rd or 4th round comp pick for that? That seems more our speed.

With all that being said, we have a franchise QB and an offensive-minded HC and a legit #1, so any #2 WR we have should be able to put up good enough numbers to convince desperate GMs that he could be the #1 they need, so I reckon we'll have a hard time keeping them around. Such is the burden of being good.

[007BengalsFan]

(02-13-2024, 12:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: They made the equivalent percentage wise for that moment in time.

Burrow + Chase + Higgins would eat up a much larger percentage of the cap than Manning + Harrison + Wayne.  I already pointed this out in another thread:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-FA-Signing-Game?pid=1455009#pid1455009

[casear2727]

(02-14-2024, 01:28 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Burrow + Chase + Higgins would eat up a much larger percentage of the cap than Manning + Harrison + Wayne.  I already pointed this out in another thread:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-FA-Signing-Game?pid=1455009#pid1455009

They are actually very close.  Your points are not always correct, as we have seen.

[007BengalsFan]

(02-14-2024, 01:44 AM)casear2727 Wrote: They are actually very close.  Your points are not always correct, as we have seen.

21-25 percent is not close to 31-34 percent.  A 10% difference over a 2 year period of a ~280 million dollar cap is 56 million dollars.  That also does not account for the loaded backend of Tee's contract to even get it to the mid 30s range that Perrotta suggested.

21-25% is not close to being the same as 31-34% no matter how hard you try spin it