Which FA do you want if money did not matter?

[*ochocincos*]

(02-20-2024, 12:30 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: You are not wrong.  Evan’s is still a great receiver. I just don’t know if he is that much better than tee. We didn’t get a healthy tee most of the 2023 season.  The best ability, they say, is availability… and tee needs to prove that.

In my opinion, Higgins will be tagged and play out this year on the tag.  Think of it as the bengals pushing in the chips for 2024, before burrows contract balloons.  And a chase extension.

Bengals don't have to get a better receiver. They just need someone who can be close to 1000 yards.
Especially if Evans were to come at a cheaper cost than the $20.7 mill tag cost, maybe $18 mill or less APY.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-20-2024, 01:52 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Not sure Evan’s is better than tee at this point, other than being healthier and available to play.   We really need a full season of tee, and a healthy burrow, if we are tagging him.

Evans has been much better than Tee over his career, but yeah he might not be better soon if Tee can actually stay healthy.

Tee is much younger which gives him an edge over Mike Evans.

(02-20-2024, 12:30 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: You are not wrong.  Evan’s is still a great receiver. I just don’t know if he is that much better than tee. We didn’t get a healthy tee most of the 2023 season.  The best ability, they say, is availability… and tee needs to prove that.

In my opinion, Higgins will be tagged and play out this year on the tag.  Think of it as the bengals pushing in the chips for 2024, before burrows contract balloons.  And a chase extension.

I think the same will happen. But I am not against letting Tee go and using that money elsewhere on the trenches and Ja'Marr.

[Bengalbug]

(02-20-2024, 12:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals don't have to get a better receiver. They just need someone who can be close to 1000 yards.
Especially if Evans were to come at a cheaper cost than the $20.7 mill tag cost, maybe $18 mill or less APY.

Not sure the bengals want to commit more than one year, at that price tag, to anyone other than number 1.

[coachmcneil71]

(02-19-2024, 05:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, Evans is a lot older than Tee though, but now would be the time to add him before he starts to fall off. All for Mike Evans in FA.

I was going to quote Kali but you caught it for me. Tee is 25, while Evans is 30. Evans is coming off of a great year. Ts, with the investment of WRs added via last year's draft, I'm not sure that they throw money at another WR in free agency. Evans is a great addition for any team, just not sure the team will throw around the kind of money that he will command since his last name's not Higgins or Chase. 

I can see them offering Boyd again and it will be up to him to decide if he wants to chase the money or stay in Cincy.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-21-2024, 04:03 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I was going to quote Kali but you caught it for me. Tee is 25, while Evans is 30. Evans is coming off of a great year. Ts, with the investment of WRs added via last year's draft, I'm not sure that they throw money at another WR in free agency. Evans is a great addition for any team, just not sure the team will throw around the kind of money that he will command since his last name's not Higgins or Chase. 

I can see them offering Boyd again and it will be up to him to decide if he wants to chase the money or stay in Cincy.

Completely understand Coach. I also find it unlikely to bring in Evans, but I think it would be a good move if we want to just move on from 
Tee and replace him with a damn good big WR for a year or two.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-21-2024, 05:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Completely understand Coach. I also find it unlikely to bring in Evans, but I think it would be a good move if we want to just move on from 
Tee and replace him with a damn good big WR for a year or two.

I think they'll try to negotiate with Higgins first and foremost up to a certain dollar amount, and they'll only look at other WRs on the market if he ends up walking.
Or they'll tag him.

Evans is only a secondary option in my eyes if Higgins walks and they want a short-term, skilled stopgap guy rather than invest another high draft pick and push into a starting role immediately.

FWIW though, I don't think Evans would be in the "budget" category.
I think he'll get around $15 mill APY if not somewhat more.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-21-2024, 05:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think they'll try to negotiate with Higgins first and foremost up to a certain dollar amount, and they'll only look at other WRs on the market if he ends up walking.
Or they'll tag him.

Evans is only a secondary option in my eyes if Higgins walks and they want a short-term, skilled stopgap guy rather than invest another high draft pick and push into a starting role immediately.

FWIW though, I don't think Evans would be in the "budget" category.
I think he'll get around $15 mill APY if not somewhat more.

You are probably right Ochocincos. I saw in an article today where it said we were the best fit for Madubuike in Free Agency, yes please...

[*ochocincos*]

(02-21-2024, 06:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You are probably right Ochocincos. I saw in an article today where it said we were the best fit for Madubuike in Free Agency, yes please...

I don't see that happening. Bengals need a starting NT to go next to BJ Hill, and Madubuike isn't that. That would/could have been Michael Pierce, but he re-signed with the Ravens back in early Jan.

I think if they bring in any interior pass rusher in FA, it will be as a rotational player only and be on the more budget-friendly side.
No one to get overly excited about.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-20-2024, 01:52 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Not sure Evan’s is better than tee at this point, other than being healthier and available to play.   We really need a full season of tee, and a healthy burrow, if we are tagging him.

Depends upon what he would cost.  I'm sure that Joe Burrow would have little issues with acclimating to Mike Evans, who tends to stay healthy.

[coachmcneil71]

(02-21-2024, 05:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Completely understand Coach. I also find it unlikely to bring in Evans, but I think it would be a good move if we want to just move on from 
Tee and replace him with a damn good big WR for a year or two.

I feel ya! I think he's coming off a career year. I get to watch most of the NFC South games here in the panhandle. He played at a high-level last season. Hell, I had him in the BFF league. I like him. He's a little older but still has a good 3 years left in the tank, imho.

I would like to add that I recently read an article stating that Arians would be prioritizing both Evans and Mayfield in free agency.

[Luvnit2]

(02-19-2024, 12:05 PM)J24 Wrote: Hot take- I would still do that if I was KC!

KC has 16 million in cap space for Jones, Sneed, LT, and RT. Lots of needs and not a lot of cash. If they want Jones, likely others will have to be cut to make it happen.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-21-2024, 08:55 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I feel ya! I think he's coming off a career year. I get to watch most of the NFC South games here in the panhandle. He played at a high-level last season. Hell, I had him in the BFF league. I like him. He's a little older but still has a good 3 years left in the tank, imho.

My only concern would be that he's been a hot weather team player for his entire career.  Are we sure that on the back end of his playing days that his body would hold up to playing in the AFCN?  We all have outdoor stadiums, sometimes very cold weeks sneak up sooner than expected.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-21-2024, 08:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't see that happening. Bengals need a starting NT to go next to BJ Hill, and Madubuike isn't that. That would/could have been Michael Pierce, but he re-signed with the Ravens back in early Jan.

I think if they bring in any interior pass rusher in FA, it will be as a rotational player only and be on the more budget-friendly side.
No one to get overly excited about.

Pierce was on my mind as well before I knew that. I love BJ Hill, but he has never shown a season like Madubuike just shown and we need 
push up the middle as a pass rushing DT and it is easier to find run stopping NT's in the Draft than pass rushing 3-tech's IMO.

(02-21-2024, 08:55 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I feel ya! I think he's coming off a career year. I get to watch most of the NFC South games here in the panhandle. He played at a high-level last season. Hell, I had him in the BFF league. I like him. He's a little older but still has a good 3 years left in the tank, imho.

I would like to add that I recently read an article stating that Arians would be prioritizing both Evans and Mayfield in free agency.

Evans has been great for his entire career, very underrated honestly.

(02-21-2024, 08:58 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: KC has 16 million in cap space for Jones, Sneed, LT, and RT. Lots of needs and not a lot of cash. If they want Jones, likely others will have to be cut to make it happen.

Yep, same with the Dolphins and even the Ravens, they all have little cap space. 

Christian Wilkins is also on my wish list if he gets on the market. Wilkins can play both NT and 3-tech. Versatility rocks.

(02-21-2024, 09:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: My only concern would be that he's been a hot weather team player for his entire career.  Are we sure that on the back end of his playing days that his body would hold up to playing in the AFCN?  We all have outdoor stadiums, sometimes very cold weeks sneak up sooner than expected.

Good point about Evans I haven't really thought of. Always played in Texas at A&M and Miami pretty much. Might not be able to handle
the cold and he is getting older. Still think he would be a good one to grab if he is available and we want to move on from Tee.

[007BengalsFan]

(02-21-2024, 08:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't see that happening. Bengals need a starting NT to go next to BJ Hill, and Madubuike isn't that. That would/could have been Michael Pierce, but he re-signed with the Ravens back in early Jan.

I think if they bring in any interior pass rusher in FA, it will be as a rotational player only and be on the more budget-friendly side.
No one to get overly excited about.

Madubuike wouldnt be signed to replace Reader.  He would be signed to replace Hill who is in the last year of his contract.  Madubuike could get snaps in Readers spot while Reader heals while also taking snaps at Hills spot when he is out of the game.  You also draft someone like Sweat as your future NT.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-22-2024, 01:01 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Madubuike wouldnt be signed to replace Reader.  He would be signed to replace Hill who is in the last year of his contract.  Madubuike could get snaps in Readers spot while Reader heals while also taking snaps at Hills spot when he is out of the game.  You also draft someone like Sweat as your future NT.

Yep, plus BJ Hill can play some NT, he sure isn't a pure 3-tech, Hill is more of a hybrid. Sweat in big time running situations with BJ Hill until
Reader is healed would be ideal with Madubuike as our main pass rushing 3-tech IMO.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-22-2024, 01:01 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Madubuike wouldnt be signed to replace Reader.  He would be signed to replace Hill who is in the last year of his contract.  Madubuike could get snaps in Readers spot while Reader heals while also taking snaps at Hills spot when he is out of the game.  You also draft someone like Sweat as your future NT.

I would be shocked to see them put out two 3Ts outside of pure passing situations.
Hill can fill in for NT in a pinch, but neither guy is a stud at stuffing the run.
If you put Madubuike and Hill out there together, expect even worse run defense.
I can just hear the complaints now of how bad the team would do trying to stop the running games of the Ravens, Browns, and Steelers.

Now, one thing that is worth pointing out is BJ Hill only has $3.33 mill dead cap but a $10.83 mill cap hit.
If he's let go, that frees up $7.5 mill.

If the Bengals would be willing to do something like that and put that toward someone like Madubuike, I think that's more possible and likely for these coaches and front office.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Madubuike for me, then Wilkins. Assuming Jones is off the board.

I don't think we invest much/at all at DE/EDGE. All 5 guys are signed. Trey is a stud. Murphy will get another year to develop. And Hubbard played hurt last year. The turnover is potentially 2025.

With the strength of the OT draft class, I don't see spending big on an OT. Though medium is possible (Smith, Elumenor, Brown).

A secondary add is tempting,,but Ibthink the FO is bought in to Dax & Turner starting. But a,medium buy at S or CB is likely. I'd love Winfield if we whiff at DT, but no way we pay a S that much after letting Bates walk. Corner, maybe?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-22-2024, 10:45 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I would be shocked to see them put out two 3Ts outside of pure passing situations.
Hill can fill in for NT in a pinch, but neither guy is a stud at stuffing the run.
If you put Madubuike and Hill out there together, expect even worse run defense.
I can just hear the complaints now of how bad the team would do trying to stop the running games of the Ravens, Browns, and Steelers.

Now, one thing that is worth pointing out is BJ Hill only has $3.33 mill dead cap but a $10.83 mill cap hit.
If he's let go, that frees up $7.5 mill.

If the Bengals would be willing to do something like that and put that toward someone like Madubuike, I think that's more possible and likely for these coaches and front office.

Wouldn't find it shocking at all with how bad Carter has been and BJ Hill not being a true 3-tech. Madubuike is one and an elite one at that.

You keep a good player like BJ Hill even if it frees up money to cut him. BJ is on the last year of his contract anyways. You would only have 
both Madubuike and Hill in there at the same time on passing downs. On running downs you bring in a run stopping rookie in Sweat or one 
of the other early NT's in this Draft. BJ Hill is not a true 3-tech, he is more of a hybrid, he can stop the run and he can rush the passer but 
he is not elite at either.

(02-22-2024, 06:05 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Madubuike for me, then Wilkins. Assuming Jones is off the board.

I don't think we invest much/at all at DE/EDGE. All 5 guys are signed. Trey is a stud. Murphy will get another year to develop. And Hubbard played hurt last year. The turnover is potentially 2025.

With the strength of the OT draft class, I don't see spending big on an OT. Though medium is possible (Smith, Elumenor, Brown).

A secondary add is tempting,,but Ibthink the FO is bought in to Dax & Turner starting. But a,medium buy at S or CB is likely. I'd love Winfield if we whiff at DT, but no way we pay a S that much after letting Bates walk. Corner, maybe?

Yeah, we don't need to spend big on a RT, the dudes you mention plus Onwenu would be medium FA's in terms of cost I am pretty sure.

Agree with everything else you say as well Ike, nice post.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-22-2024, 06:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Wouldn't find it shocking at all with how bad Carter has been and BJ Hill not being a true 3-tech. Madubuike is one and an elite one at that.

You keep a good player like BJ Hill even if it frees up money to cut him. BJ is on the last year of his contract anyways. You would only have 
both Madubuike and Hill in there at the same time on passing downs. On running downs you bring in a run stopping rookie in Sweat or one 
of the other early NT's in this Draft. BJ Hill is not a true 3-tech, he is more of a hybrid, he can stop the run and he can rush the passer but 
he is not elite at either.

It's not that I wouldn't like to see Madubuike as a Bengal, it's that I don't think it will happen given the $$ being put into the DL already and not likely moving Hill back to a rotational player.

According to PFR and PFF, BJ Hill had 14 QB Hits.
That's much higher than the 4 he had in 2021, when he had 5.5 sacks. That's 10 times coming in contact with the QB.
So while he didn't get as many sacks in 2023, he did have 19 instances of making contact with the QB.
So he's still getting to the QB, just not getting a ton of sacks.

On to the salary part...
Madubuike is evaluated at $20 mill APY according to Spotrac. Obviously, that might be somewhat lower, but I don't think it will be too much lower.
BJ Hill's base salary this year is $7.2 mill and a $10.8 mill cap hit.
That's a hefty price for a rotational player, even if it is his last year.
I just can't see the Bengals keeping Hill at that price point without making sure he gets 700+ snaps. They'll either have him as the primary 3T, cut him, or renegotiate his contract to get that cost lower such that it's more inline with a rotational player.

What I could see more likely is adding some cheap vet rotational guy (maybe $5 mill or less) and draft a guy (or two) to go with Hill and Carter.
Carter is a 3rd round pick and needed development given he was kind of in between DE and DT, so I'm willing to give him this year before I am fully ready to move on.

Heck, maybe with Murphy's improvement last year, could we see Hubbard swing inside some more like we used to see a few years ago, adding that interior pass rush?

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(02-23-2024, 11:19 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It's not that I wouldn't like to see Madubuike as a Bengal, it's that I don't think it will happen given the $$ being put into the DL already and not likely moving Hill back to a rotational player.

According to PFR and PFF, BJ Hill had 14 QB Hits.
That's much higher than the 4 he had in 2021, when he had 5.5 sacks. That's 10 times coming in contact with the QB.
So while he didn't get as many sacks in 2023, he did have 19 instances of making contact with the QB.
So he's still getting to the QB, just not getting a ton of sacks.

On to the salary part...
Madubuike is evaluated at $20 mill APY according to Spotrac. Obviously, that might be somewhat lower, but I don't think it will be too much lower.
BJ Hill's base salary this year is $7.2 mill and a $10.8 mill cap hit.
That's a hefty price for a rotational player, even if it is his last year.
I just can't see the Bengals keeping Hill at that price point without making sure he gets 700+ snaps. They'll either have him as the primary 3T, cut him, or renegotiate his contract to get that cost lower such that it's more inline with a rotational player.

What I could see more likely is adding some cheap vet rotational guy (maybe $5 mill or less) and draft a guy (or two) to go with Hill and Carter.
Carter is a 3rd round pick and needed development given he was kind of in between DE and DT, so I'm willing to give him this year before I am fully ready to move on.

Heck, maybe with Murphy's improvement last year, could we see Hubbard swing inside some more like we used to see a few years ago, adding that interior pass rush?

The DL guys all play. We rotate a lot even sans injuries. We play some 5 man fronts. 

IF we were to land a big fish DT in FA, Hill couod be cut. But he is a very effective player. I'd be loathe to to it. 

The DL upgrades should not be replacing Reader or Hill, but instead upgrading Carter, Tupou, & Tufele. 

But I seriously doubt Baltimore lets Madubuike escape. Ditto Wilkins in Miami.