Veteran Safety being considered

[Essex Johnson]

(03-06-2024, 07:19 PM)Nepa Wrote: Bills released a lot of players today:  cornerback Tre-Davious White, Poyer, starting center Mitch Morse, kick returner Deonte Harty, and DB Siran Neal. My concern with Poyer is just his age: 32. He was at one time an all-pro, however. 

Just 2021 season all pro pro bowl 2022 , good year in 2023 , perfect fit for us, 2 year contract hopefully we make him offer

[SunsetBengal]

(03-07-2024, 03:55 PM)Nepa Wrote: Poyer apparently did not have a good year last year, after stellar seasons previously. At 32, he is probably on the downside as a safety. For the previous two years (2021 and 2022 seasons) he was at the top in terms of coverage, leading all players in passer rating in terms of being the nearest defender in coverage. But last year he had a big fall off from those numbers, going from allowing opponents to complete 49% of their passes to 73% of their passes and his passer rating ballooning to 105.1.

On the other hand, Simmons (30 years old) had a good year, making second-team all pro for the 4th year in his career.

I would be excited by a Simmons' signing, if the price is right, particularly given he seems to be a high-character individual that would be another good leader in the clubhouse and on the field. I wouldn't have the same excitement if the Bengals signed Poyer. Perhaps their PFF ratings tell another story.

I wonder if Simmons has a touch of that Darrel Green bloodline in him? 

[J24]

(03-07-2024, 07:16 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Only as I stated if circumstances change meaning cleared and playing 1st game

He doesn't need to start week 1 especially if he is playing for a contender. If he is healthy by Halloween some team will sign him to big money.

[Essex Johnson]

(03-07-2024, 07:30 PM)J24 Wrote: He doesn't need to start week 1 especially if he is playing for a contender. If he is healthy by Halloween some team will sign him to big money.

I am not paying that type of $$ for "If", as i stated no team is going to offer him much if he is out till end of October.. and if our Defense interior does not play well early, we will be back to playing from behind .

[Essex Johnson]

(03-07-2024, 03:55 PM)Nepa Wrote: Poyer apparently did not have a good year last year, after stellar seasons previously. At 32, he is probably on the downside as a safety. For the previous two years (2021 and 2022 seasons) he was at the top in terms of coverage, leading all players in passer rating in terms of being the nearest defender in coverage. But last year he had a big fall off from those numbers, going from allowing opponents to complete 49% of their passes to 73% of their passes and his passer rating ballooning to 105.1.

On the other hand, Simmons (30 years old) had a good year, making second-team all pro for the 4th year in his career.

I would be excited by a Simmons' signing, if the price is right, particularly given he seems to be a high-character individual that would be another good leader in the clubhouse and on the field. I wouldn't have the same excitement if the Bengals signed Poyer. Perhaps their PFF ratings tell another story.

Both are solid safeties, the more the merrier,, it is not simple to sign a player in FA with multiple offers from different teams... hopefully if we are serious about bring in a solid veteran starter we will be able to get one of the two of them.

[Nepa]

I found out that the Bengals could actually sign Justin Simmons now, and not wait until Monday. Here is the reference I found from CBS Sports:

"Players released from existing contracts are another story. Lots of teams release players before free agency as a way of clearing salary-cap space. One notable example this offseason is Denver Broncos safety Justin Simmons. If Simmons had been a pending free agent, he would've needed to wait until March 11 to speak with other teams, and March 13 to finalize a deal. Because Denver terminated his contract, which ran through 2024, he is now already free to sign with another team."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2024-nfl-free-agency-explainer-when-does-signing-period-start-why-can-some-players-change-teams-now/

[SunsetBengal]

(03-07-2024, 08:38 PM)Nepa Wrote: I found out that the Bengals could actually sign Justin Simmons now, and not wait until Monday. Here is the reference I found from CBS Sports:

"Players released from existing contracts are another story. Lots of teams release players before free agency as a way of clearing salary-cap space. One notable example this offseason is Denver Broncos safety Justin Simmons. If Simmons had been a pending free agent, he would've needed to wait until March 11 to speak with other teams, and March 13 to finalize a deal. Because Denver terminated his contract, which ran through 2024, he is now already free to sign with another team."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2024-nfl-free-agency-explainer-when-does-signing-period-start-why-can-some-players-change-teams-now/

If the Bengals are serious about a veteran Safety, Justin Simmons would definitely be one to lock up for a 3 year deal.  The amount of money that he would require might require the team to rethink their plans on how to best use Dax Hill going forward, but with Battle and Simmons in the middle, the defense would likely look like 2021-22 again.

The only prohibitive factors that I can think of are if they don't deal Tee Higgins to another team, his franchise tag cost might inhibit the team from being able to secure all 3 of FS, NT and RT before heading into the draft.

[Essex Johnson]

(03-07-2024, 09:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If the Bengals are serious about a veteran Safety, Justin Simmons would definitely be one to lock up for a 3 year deal.  The amount of money that he would require might require the team to rethink their plans on how to best use Dax Hill going forward, but with Battle and Simmons in the middle, the defense would likely look like 2021-22 again.

The only prohibitive factors that I can think of are if they don't deal Tee Higgins to another team, his franchise tag cost might inhibit the team from being able to secure all 3 of FS, NT and RT before heading into the draft.

Simmons or Poyer would both be excellent additions , if they are looking for experience and depth for a cheaper price .. maybe go after Stone from Ravens

[wanga]

Be nice to stack an important piece away early.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-06-2024, 06:29 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: #1 is a big red flag, from what i read, the expectation is he is not going to be ready for the season, no team is going to be signing him for 10 million without clearing to play... the bengals would be wasting $$ to sign him to 10 million and miss games right off the bat.  Now if circumstances change maybe, they have to draft a DT with Reader issue and Hill being a FA in 2025.

The GM guy at ESPN (Barnwell) has him in the group making $9-$12 mil per. Again, while he is not gonna be ready week 1, by week 7-8 he shouod be. If he was healthy, he'd be $15 mil per, easy.

His health is why you go big at DT with another signing. But I think a lot on here are way overblowing the severity of the injury..

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-07-2024, 11:24 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I really don't see them making a big splash in FA on someone outside who costs $20+ mill at this point.
I think Onwenu might be about the most expensive outside FA the team would look to add.
I do think we'll look at 3-4 FAs including internal guys like Reader and then supplement the remaining spots in the draft.

My dream "realistic" FA at this point is probably Onwenu+Noah Fant both on 3-year deals and solidify those two spots for a good chunk of time.
Re-sign Reader on a 1-year or 2-year deal to bridge the gap for a draft pick at NT to be groomed.
Add a cheap veteran safety like Amos to help mentor and cover for Dax Hill if he does struggle some still this season.
If both of those first FAs can't be acquired due to cost, I'd like to prioritize Onwenu and then get someone like Hurst or re-sign Hudson for TE.
For a DT to go along with BJ Hill, I really think that will come in the draft.
Add a punter, another RB, maybe another CB in the draft.
If there's room, draft a WR too if there's not confidence Higgins signs a long-term deal.

That is an eminently sensible take. I'd say I think L. Williams can likely be had for less that $20. Maybe considerably less.

As for vet S, my initial thought was we'd play at the shallower end of the pool & look for a bargain. I would pass on Poyer. 

The posts about Dax looking really good the first half of the year are a good thing to remember. 

I just think we need another true difference maker. And DT is the best spot to get one in FA.

[Au165]

The safety market will be depressed this year. There is a ton of supply and I think we will see a large amount of 1 year prove it deals. Mathieu just took a 2 year 13.75 million deal and while he isn't what he used to be that's still a pretty low number.

[J24]

(03-07-2024, 03:18 PM)Synric Wrote: We forget Dax Hill looked like one of the best players on the defense for the first 6 or 7 games. He did have a bad game against Houston week 8ish, but Hill looked like a dynamic playmaker getting his hands on balls and collecting negative plays/qb hits early. When they benched Nick Scott it forced Hill back to the post which is alot larger area or responsibility and it's not something he is experienced at even in college. (If I remember he had like 150 post snaps in 2 seasons at Michigan.)


Edit: The NFL as a whole ran alot more 12 personnel formations because the defenses are going heavy cover 2. In 2024 I expect some teams like the Bengals to rely more on 3 safety looks to combat this.

Dax had 80 snaps at Deep safety his last season at Michigan, 580 in the slot, 132 in box,  19 snaps wide, and 20 at LOS.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-07-2024, 08:38 PM)Nepa Wrote: I found out that the Bengals could actually sign Justin Simmons now, and not wait until Monday. Here is the reference I found from CBS Sports:

"Players released from existing contracts are another story. Lots of teams release players before free agency as a way of clearing salary-cap space. One notable example this offseason is Denver Broncos safety Justin Simmons. If Simmons had been a pending free agent, he would've needed to wait until March 11 to speak with other teams, and March 13 to finalize a deal. Because Denver terminated his contract, which ran through 2024, he is now already free to sign with another team."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2024-nfl-free-agency-explainer-when-does-signing-period-start-why-can-some-players-change-teams-now/

Good stuff, I would wait on it though. Have to get our RT and DT first, but if Simmons is around this should be our 3rd thought for sure.

I still think Dax Hill can grow into being a good Free Safety, but that is still some growth which takes time, all I know is adding a good DT will help first.

Starts with the trenches man, has to.

(03-07-2024, 09:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If the Bengals are serious about a veteran Safety, Justin Simmons would definitely be one to lock up for a 3 year deal.  The amount of money that he would require might require the team to rethink their plans on how to best use Dax Hill going forward, but with Battle and Simmons in the middle, the defense would likely look like 2021-22 again.

The only prohibitive factors that I can think of are if they don't deal Tee Higgins to another team, his franchise tag cost might inhibit the team from being able to secure all 3 of FS, NT and RT before heading into the draft.

To the contrary of what others said in this thread, using Dax as the Slot Corner at times on the big TE's, Nickle Safety and even WILL LB
would get him plenty of snaps to be considered a starter and is most definitely not a bad way to use a first round pick. Kyle Hamilton was
selected way before Dax in the first and this is how the Ravens use him, I guess he was an awful pick as well.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-03-2024, 05:22 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why not work out a trade with Denver for Justin Simmons? he's in a contract year and they need cap relief (assuming they cut Wilson). We could handle his 1 year and maybe even get him a new multi year contract that way we'd have that spot locked for a few years? 

Well, I would have been happy trying to trade for him, but him being cut is even better.

(03-07-2024, 08:38 PM)Nepa Wrote: I found out that the Bengals could actually sign Justin Simmons now, and not wait until Monday. Here is the reference I found from CBS Sports:

"Players released from existing contracts are another story. Lots of teams release players before free agency as a way of clearing salary-cap space. One notable example this offseason is Denver Broncos safety Justin Simmons. If Simmons had been a pending free agent, he would've needed to wait until March 11 to speak with other teams, and March 13 to finalize a deal. Because Denver terminated his contract, which ran through 2024, he is now already free to sign with another team."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2024-nfl-free-agency-explainer-when-does-signing-period-start-why-can-some-players-change-teams-now/

Yea was pretty sure anyone that's cut can be signed immediately.
It's only guys that will be FA's once the New Year begins that we sign til it opens. I think though you can talk to them and work out something 24 hours prior to the opening of the FA period now. They call it legal tampering lol.

[Bengalbug]

Of the top 30 highest graded PFF safeties in 2023, 12 are free agents. It’s a saturated market, so I won’t be surprised to see the bengals bring one in this year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-08-2024, 10:56 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Well, I would have been happy trying to trade for him, but him being cut is even better.


Yea was pretty sure anyone that's cut can be signed immediately.
It's only guys that will be FA's once the New Year begins that we sign til it opens. I think though you can talk to them and work out something 24 hours prior to the opening of the FA period now. They call it legal tampering lol.

The thing about Simmons is he is a proven vet that is also a leader and he should really be able to help out our young players in the Secondary.
Communication is our biggest problem on Defense from what Lou and the coaches are saying. Justin Simmons would really help in this area right
off the bat.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-08-2024, 11:41 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Of the top 30 highest graded PFF safeties in 2023, 12 are free agents.  It’s a saturated market, so I won’t be surprised to see the bengals bring one in this year.

Yep. But I think we will search for value instead of locking into a guy and paying him. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

BTW, Justin Simmons is not hurt. Someone said that or maybe they were talking about someone else and I said he was
coming off injury in my prior post, but he is not. Just had to clear that up and edit my posts, hope we sign Simmons this
weekend.