Marvin on Andy

[Fresno B]

(01-04-2016, 09:26 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Is he? Is that why he doesn't  really know what to do with zone defenses? Is that why he struggles getting the ball out fast enough when teams blitz? Why does he take way more sacks than Andy did with the same oline? In my opinion it's because he's just not quite sure. All things considered he's played well,  but please PLEASE don't argue that reading defenses and knowing exactly where to go with the ball is a strong suit. He needs serious work in that department. 

At the same point in his career, did Dalton do all the things you talk about? Thats a more accurate assessment of the situation. I've Never seen a fan base so negative about their own team.

[reuben.ahmed]

(01-04-2016, 09:31 PM)Fresno B Wrote: At the same point in his career, did Dalton do all the things you talk about? Thats a more accurate assessment of the situation. I've Never seen a fan base so negative about their own team.

How many fanbases have you been a part of to know that? I suppose the statement is true even if it's just 1.

[The Real Deal]

(01-04-2016, 09:31 PM)Fresno B Wrote: At the same point in his career, did Dalton do all the things you talk about? Thats a more accurate assessment of the situation. I've Never seen a fan base so negative about their own team.

Nope but unfortunately we aren't going to play this game in 5 years. Given the circumstances, do I think McCarron has played pretty well? Yep. Do I think McCarron has potential? Absolutely. But he's simply not there yet   We are talking about now. 

I actually,  after thinking more about this game,  think we can and will win no matter who the QB is.  I'm actually super positive about this game right now. But I'll be  damned if someone is going to tell me I'm making things up that are clearly seen by any knowledgeable football fan. He simply isn't good at it yet. He may get there someday, in fact, I think he will. But he isn't there yet.  

[*bfine32*]

(01-04-2016, 09:26 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Is it? Is that why he doesn't  really know what to do with zone defenses? Is that why he struggles getting the ball out fast enough when teams blitz? Why does he take way more sacks than Andy did with the same oline? In my opinion it's because he's just not quite sure. All things considered he's played well,  but please PLEASE don't argue that reading defenses and knowing exactly where to go with the ball is a strong suit. He needs serious work in that department. 

What do you consider his strong suit?

Cause most experts say it is reading defenses and leadership. 

[BigSeph]

(01-04-2016, 09:38 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Nope but unfortunately we aren't going to play this game in 5 years. Given the circumstances, do I think McCarron has played pretty well? Yep. Do I think McCarron has potential? Absolutely. But he's simply not there yet   We are talking about now. 

I actually,  after thinking more about this game,  think we can and will win no matter who the QB is.  I'm actually super positive about this game right now. But I'll be  damned if someone is going to tell me I'm making things up that are clearly seen by any knowledgeable football fan. He simply isn't good at it yet. He may get there someday, in fact, I think he will. But he isn't there yet.  

Let's assign Andy a rating of 95 when it comes to "reading a defense."  This rating has gone up over the course of his 70+ NFL starts.  It did not start at 95.  It was more like 80.

Now let's be realistic about where McCarron ranks when it comes to "reading a defense."  He isn't starting out in the 50s where I would put QBs like Kaepernick and Tannehill, guys who were sort of raw coming into the NFL.  He probably started out about the same as Andy did, and in a handful of games is pushing 85.

Now, if someone like Jameis Winston was getting ready to start vs. Pittsburgh in a playoff game, he might have a "reading a defense" rating of about 70 right now.  McCarron is about 85.

So what everyone is arguing is relative - McCarron can't read defenses as well as Andy Dalton can today.  That's no knock on McCarron, he's 70 NFL starts behind Andy Dalton.  It improves with time.

So when you say McCarron isn't good at reading defenses, you aren't making a factual statement.  McCarron is very good at reading defenses, and is excellent at it for a QB making 3 NFL starts.  But relative to Andy Dalton this season, McCarron is not good at reading defenses.  That much is true.

But please keep in mind that you have been graced with very good QB play this entire season, so to some degree you are spoiled.  Ask Cleveland fans or Houston fans how good McCarron is at reading defenses and they would probably give him an A++ with 10 gold stars.

Just be realistic.  You have an asset that every other NFL team would love to have right now - a backup QB capable of reading defenses and making the right throws and the potential to grow and improve quickly.  He just doesn't read defenses as well as the QB who was having an MVP-caliber season.

And the only way that will improve is with playing time.

Be thankful for what you have.

[Fresno B]

(01-04-2016, 09:38 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Nope but unfortunately we aren't going to play this game in 5 years. Given the circumstances, do I think McCarron has played pretty well? Yep. Do I think McCarron has potential? Absolutely. But he's simply not there yet   We are talking about now. 

I actually,  after thinking more about this game,  think we can and will win no matter who the QB is.  I'm actually super positive about this game right now. But I'll be  damned if someone is going to tell me I'm making things up that are clearly seen by any knowledgeable football fan. He simply isn't good at it yet. He may get there someday, in fact, I think he will. But he isn't there yet.  

[quote pid='147054' dateline='1451954325']
Nobody in their right mind thinks he's there yet. But he is doing a damn good job filling the role as backup. We're in the playoffs and it's senseless that this is what a percentage of the fans want to talk about ( how sucky Mac is ).Get ready for the first postseason win in decades, don't be a Debbie d and miss out.
[/quote]

[The Real Deal]

(01-04-2016, 09:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What do you consider his strong suit?

Cause most experts say it is reading defenses and leadership. 

I see the leadership.  I like his passion. I like that the players say he takes command of the huddle. I like that he can manage a game.  I like that he throws the ball away and takes sacks instead of making bone headed throws when he's unsure of what he is looking at. And for the most part I've loved his accuracy. More often than not he puts the ball where only his guys can get it.  

[The Real Deal]

(01-04-2016, 09:51 PM)Fresno B Wrote: [quote pid='147054' dateline='1451954325']
Nobody in their right mind thinks he's there yet. But he is doing a damn good job filling the role as backup. We're in the playoffs and it's senseless that this is what a percentage of the fans want to talk about ( how sucky Mac is ).Get ready for the first postseason win in decades, don't be a Debbie d and miss out.

[/quote]

I'm not sure your reading comprehension is your strong suit. You just quoted me in which I said I was positive about the game and think we will win.  No Debbie d here.  I just happen to think he struggles reading defenses right now and a number of you think he's good at it. I'm right, y'all are wrong. It happens. Get used to it. 

[Essex Johnson]

I don;t think any of us novices can rate how a QB is at reading defenses.. what I can see about AJM is that he has been very good at just throwing the ball away and play another down... good for him, though this weekend we will probably need a bit more ability to throw downfield

[Fresno B]

I'm not sure your reading comprehension is your strong suit. You just quoted me in which I said I was positive about the game and think we will win.  No Debbie d here.  I just happen to think he struggles reading defenses right now and a number of you think he's good at it. I'm right, y'all are wrong. It happens. Get used to it. 
[/quote]

No need for the insult my reading comprehension. You said he isn't good at it yet, but he's 2-1 as a starter so that has to stand for something. And to your last little comments 

[jj22]

No matter who starts it's going to take the defense showing up like never before in the playoffs, the run can't be forgotten in the second half (Bodine's got to have a hell of a game), Marvin has to go into the 4th quarter with more than 1 timeout, and no bad challenges the first 5 minutes of the game.

This game likely won't be won by the qb.

[KansasBengal]

(01-04-2016, 10:44 PM)jj22 Wrote: This game likely won't be won by the qb.

This- for the Bengals at least. But the QB can most certainly lose the game for us. We're a better rounded team. Steelers need Ben to win the game for them because their run game is beat up and their D isn't as good as the Bengals. Ben can certainly win the game though but since this thread is about our guys I agree that we can win with either guy under center. They just need to keep playing smart football.

[Shake n Blake]

Old boards had "Andy's Army"

New boards have "McCarron's militia"

[BayouBengal]

If Andy did get his cast removed today he will probably be able to throw again in 3 days.

I've experienced wearing a cast on my left hand for about the same amount of time and was about the same age as Andy. Its not the bone strength that holds you back its the muscle atrophy. Those muscles strengthen pretty fast but the first day it was removed my hand was much skinnier and I couldn't do much with it. He definitely will not be able to tightly grip a football for a few days. It was difficult for me to simply type a paper the day my cast was taken off.

So if it's true that it was removed he could possibly play. I think Marv may just be practicing AJ for now because Dalton won't be throwing much until he gets his hand strength back. This could be to get in the Stoolers heads too. I don't think he will want to start Andy with no practice though. I guess we will know if his cast is off or not at tomorrow's practice.

But from experience I can say that if the cast wasn't removed today he certainly won't be playing. There's just no way to get the necessary hand strength back in time.

[BengalChris]

(01-04-2016, 09:31 PM)Fresno B Wrote: At the same point in his career, did Dalton do all the things you talk about? Thats a more accurate assessment of the situation. I've Never seen a fan base so negative about their own team.

Andy Dalton did all those things in his 4th year, not just in his first 3 starts. Let's be real here. AJM is as green as fresh grass in the spring and he's done pretty well given that. All those things being said about AJM we said about Dalton just last year after the first Indy game and the NE game.

That said, we need more 3rd down conversions from AJM to keep the chains moving.

[tlotharw]

(01-04-2016, 07:11 PM)J24 Wrote: Aj starts the game  Andy finishes the game that's my prediction!

That would be a horrible scenario.

[McC]

(01-04-2016, 09:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: AJ's best attribute is reading defenses.

How many INts has this kid thrown as a starter.

Folks just quit making things up. The 2 QBs have very similar games. AJ has actually upped his propensity to pull it down and run to make their games even more similar.

Is Aj currently a better QB than Andy? No

Do they have a similar game? Yes  

Their games are similar.  It's just that Andy's is four years more advanced.

My hope is that the entire rest of the team, knowing they are going in with a backup, will elevate their games, unlike in past years.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-05-2016, 12:41 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Andy Dalton did all those things in his 4th year, not just in his first 3 starts. Let's be real here. AJM is as green as fresh grass in the spring and he's done pretty well given that. All those things being said about AJM we said about Dalton just last year after the first Indy game and the NE game.

That said, we need more 3rd down conversions from AJM to keep the chains moving.

.....but Dalton was about the only player on offense to show up in NE.....

[Shake n Blake]

(01-05-2016, 06:29 AM)Wyche Wrote: .....but Dalton was about the only player on offense to show up in NE.....

Bro don't even bother. People believe what they want, facts be damned.

Dalton was good in 3 of 4 prime time games last and 2 of 3 prime time games this year.

[Hoofhearted]

I thought he had a meeting with the Doc to take cast off yesterday? So did that not happen?