Welcome Erick All!

[Luvnit2]

(04-27-2024, 02:35 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I didn't pay any attention to him in the pre draft process since he had the major injury flags. After watching his highlights... Holy shit, I don't mind the risk reward pick at all.

He came back and led Iowa in receiving, in only half their games, with 299 yards. And that was after the back surgery.

Now he has to bounce back from the ACL. We are in a good spot of not needing to rush him along, three guys in front of him on the depth chart, and since they've spent so much time with him recently they must be pleased with his progress.

I would add Iowa had no QB and no pass offense in 2023. 

There was a kid named Munoz who had AC surgery on both knees, Bengals fans would have never drafted the future HOF player and maybe best OT of all time.

[Luvnit2]

(04-27-2024, 02:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I hope he had the same back issue Gronk had in College

We went the safe route and drafted Gresham in round 1................

Then Pats took Gronk in late round 2 and then Hernandez in round 3.

Sometimes in life you have to take risks. It was not a 1st round pick, it was a 4th round pick. They also picked the safer TE in round 6, we may have 1 starting to end for the future to replace Gesicki or 2 or none.

Not you, but we have some real drama queen fans at time. 

They give some draft picks zero chance to succeed, unless of course it was a pick they liked. 

[Luvnit2]

(04-27-2024, 04:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: On top of this, the OC did the post drafting of All presser and when asked when he would be available he said he didn't know, but they were happy with his rehab.... The OC doesn't know?! This is a really stupid waste of a draft pick and stinks of panic. All would have been there in the 5th or 6th. I have no doubt.

If the FO made every pick solely for the current year, we would suck long term.

Maybe the FO is smarter than you and me.

[sandwedge]

(04-27-2024, 04:33 PM)pally Wrote:

"You ready to come home?" @eallindi83 gets THE CALL!@IEL_LLC | ?: NFL Draft on ESPN/ABC/NFLN pic.twitter.com/bWDMKrbDLK

— Cincinnati Bengals (@Bengals) April 27, 2024

See if I was Zac and I said "This is Zac Taylor, we are picking you" and All asks, The Cincinnati Bengals?", I'd have said "Sorry wrong number"....

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-27-2024, 05:00 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I thought Stover was an interesting prospect, too. I am just floored by the selection of All. The Bengals seem to have this (incredibly idiotic) idea that they can develop players.... while not playing them.

I need them to show me the last player they picked and the guy was hurt, sat for the majority of a year or two, had issues, etc. that actually produced and turned into an even decent player for them.

The list of the Bengals Red Shirt failures is insanely long. Yet, they keep thinking they're going to turn water into wine. Do they even look back and study their decision making process over past drafts? Absolutely idiotic to not be self aware of this failing trend they keep repeating.

Jonah Williams.

[PDub80]

(04-28-2024, 12:13 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Jonah Williams.

What do you mean?

Jonah started 44 straight games in college. He didn't come out injured or need character deep dives. Jonah is the exact opposite of Eric All in that sense.

[PDub80]

(04-28-2024, 09:51 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If the FO made every pick solely for the current year, we would suck long term.

Maybe the FO is smarter than you and me.

Arguing from a position of authority or, "Appeal to Authority" as it's technically called, is a logical fallacy and for dumb people. I'm not sure it's great advice to ever just blindly accept that type of thinking or discussion style.

Duke reminds me of an ex girlfriend of mine who would always stop at the discounted food carts at Kroger and rummage about through the expired food thinking she was outsmarting everyone and getting a great deal. It had nothing to do with money. She just couldn't help thinking she was getting something on the cheap. It was exciting to her... and super tacky to me. A waste of 5 minutes. Leave that for people who need those deals so they can eat. THAT is DUke Tobin on these guys. He thinks he's outsmarting everyone and getting maximum value. He's buying a wrecked car with a salvage title thinking if he fixes it, it's just as good as a new one. IT ISN'T.

If the Bengals had way more information and could actually do a great job making decisions with it, then they wouldn't have all of these early & mid round draft picks - the not so obvious ones (Burro & Chase) are the outliers - bust out of the league or grossly underperform their draft position.

FACT: The list of Bengals "project players" (injured or character concerns) who didn't live up to their draft selection/status is IMMENSELY larger than the ones that did - regardless of their level of information over anyone else's.

[Destro]

(04-28-2024, 09:38 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: There was a kid named Munoz who had AC surgery on both knees, Bengals fans would have never drafted the future HOF player and maybe best OT of all time.

I was going to mention Munoz, but figured people would start getting their underwear in a bunch. thanks for taking the charge.

Munoz also did not have the benefit of modern medical advancements. Should medical/injuries be a big factor? Absolutely. The totality of a player shouldn't be measured in just that. Hopefully it is more 6 million dollar man and less Mr. Glass. I love me some Burrow, and he has a nice checklist of injuries. I'd take him #1OA again today. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-28-2024, 09:11 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Sample ran a 4.7 40. Erick All ran a 4.8 40. 

Erick All can't do anything that Sample can't...which in itself is a big yikes. 

Yeah, experts were definitely talking about Kittle type potential with Sample when he was drafted…

All had almost as many yards his Jr season alone as Sample had his entire college career. He’s going to be much more of a pass catcher.

[PDub80]

(04-28-2024, 09:38 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I would add Iowa had no QB and no pass offense in 2023. 

There was a kid named Munoz who had AC surgery on both knees, Bengals fans would have never drafted the future HOF player and maybe best OT of all time.

(04-28-2024, 02:41 PM)Destro Wrote: I was going to mention Munoz, but figured people would start getting their underwear in a bunch. thanks for taking the charge.

Munoz also did not have the benefit of modern medical advancements. Should medical/injuries be a big factor? Absolutely. The totality of a player shouldn't be measured in just that. Hopefully it is more 6 million dollar man and less Mr. Glass. I love me some Burrow, and he has a nice checklist of injuries. I'd take him #1OA again today. 

Guys, if you have to go back 40 years to prove your point, you are just proving other people's point.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-28-2024, 09:11 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Sample ran a 4.7 40. Erick All ran a 4.8 40. 

Erick All can't do anything that Sample can't...which in itself is a big yikes. 

What are you doing Weezy? Seriously? You just make up shit now to hate on this Draft. All didn't run at the Combine or at a Pro Day...

I love this Draft the more and more irrationality hates on it.

You have to make shit up to hate it lol

[Nicomo Cosca]

Drew Sample FB ???

The Sitdown w/ Malik Wright presented by @Firststarlog pic.twitter.com/jkrY6VIp8n

— Malik Wright (@Wrightreportt) April 28, 2024

Interesting thought. Not sure I see them doing it though.

[Destro]

(04-28-2024, 02:59 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Guys, if you have to go back 40 years to prove your point, you are just proving other people's point.

Burrow wasn't even alive 40 years ago, nor was Andrew Luck. Adrian Peterson was a record breaker after the ACL. Don't see other's people point even made.

[PDub80]

(04-28-2024, 03:34 PM)Destro Wrote: Burrow wasn't even alive 40 years ago, nor was Andrew Luck. Adrian Peterson was a record breaker after the ACL. Don't see other's people point even made.

Am I speaking English?

- Luck, Burrow, Peterson didn't have major surgeries during the final season of their college careers. How on Earth are they being brought into this conversation?

People's Statement: Bengals drafting guys who had major injuries their final year of college, thinking they are stealing high value hasn't worked in their favor very well historically.


Your Rebuttal: Anthony Munoz


My Reply: That was 40 years ago and not relevant today other than the fact that it's the rarest of occurrences for the Bengals, proving people's points.

Your rebuttal: Joe Burrow, Andrew Luck, Adrian Peterson



^ These guys all got hurt in the pros. It is common knowledge that players recover from major knee surgery. That is NOT the discussion (even though I know you want to steer it there). Coming in and red shirting or limping through pro seasons is a near impossible task.

Drafting college kids into the pros coming off major injuries (or off field character problems) RARELY works out. ESPECIALLY with the current Bengals front office. They are HORRIFIC at it. You had to go back to Paul Brown drafting Anthony Munoz to find a success story in the Bengals org. The guys making that decision are either dead or in their late 80s.

Please, give me some modern Bengal draft "steals" since 1995 that had a good career with the Bengals (or after) that also underwent a major injury or surgery their final season of college.






It's a massive, insane risk on a player to do this in the 4th round. Especially given the Bengals poor track record of success. I hope All has an amazing career for the Bengals. I just think that's too high for a guy not able to even practice full contact for months still.

[Destro]

College or Pro, they had an injury, recovered and played well. And the guys mentioned were all older when the injury occurred. If you were in a panic over a FA or something, maybe some validity. Getting upset over a 4th round draft choice is just a bit off.

2018 Mark Walton
2019 Michael Jordan, Renell Wren
2020 Akeem Davis-Gaither
2021 D'Ante Smith, Tyler Shelvin, Cam Sample
2022 Cordell Volson
2023 Charlie jones

Fourth Round is not where we find our Pro Bowlers at. Keep being upset by it.

[Stewy]

All of this vitriol over a 4th rnd pick. Thanks for the entertainment.

[casear2727]

(04-27-2024, 02:16 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Virtually NO UPSIDE or standout traits on this kid. This was a massive reach and throwaway pick.

Mind boggling choice. I bet he doesn't see 200 yards this season. Special teamer until his body crumbles week 5.

So many people that evaluate players for a living disagree with this take.  Assuming he can stay heathy, he is likely the best overall TE on our roster. 

[casear2727]

(04-28-2024, 09:11 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Sample ran a 4.7 40. Erick All ran a 4.8 40. 

Erick All can't do anything that Sample can't...which in itself is a big yikes. 

This is an incredibly uninformed take.   A healthy All is the most complete TE on this roster. 

[PDub80]

(04-29-2024, 12:13 AM)casear2727 Wrote: So many people that evaluate players for a living disagree with this take.  Assuming he can stay heathy, he is likely the best overall TE on our roster. 

(04-29-2024, 12:15 AM)casear2727 Wrote: This is an incredibly uninformed take.   A healthy All is the most complete TE on this roster. 

- Even the pople who scout for a living have more misses than hits. I don't take offense that they, or anyone else, disagree with my opinion on the pick. It's fine!

Generally speaking, I think it's fair to assume a player can stay healthy.... unless they've had major injuries recently. All has had 2 major injuries in back to back college seasons.

- Erick All as a person seems to be a super high character guy. Erick All, IF HEALTHY, is a great prospect. I would have even been fine taking him with the 2nd 3rd round pick if he was healthy. IF HE WAS HEALTHY.

Only, he isn't healthy. He is currently unable to play full contact practice and most likely a pup candidate. The Bengals TE position and interior OL position could have used a player who can practice and provide depth and begin to develop NOW. There were players available who fit that description, which is why I don't like the selection.

Erick All ran a 4.8 40. That is what the reality is. Erick All today cannot hold up or block a NFL DE or LB. Eric All cannot successfully run NFL routes today in a practice, let alone a game.

That is reality. And he will most likely lose another season of development this year while other players on the Bengals and in the league continue to get better. He has no shot to come in and get some magical excellerated TE development. He will not be 100% - a REAL 100% - for a long time. 2025 is the best hope for that timeline - assuming everything goes perfect.The Bengals need 100% NOW. Not 2 years from now.

All has missed a TON of college playing/practice opportunities as well. I understand minor or freak injuries (Mims), but this player has had 2 major surgeries on completely unrelated things in back to back college seasons. He has barely played since 2021 - 3 games to start 2022, 7 in 2023.... And he wasn't just lighting people on fire then, either. He wasn't some college phenom at TE. Not even close.

Look at the history of college players who had major injuries/surguries the season leading up to the draft. The odds of doing well with a player hurt like that is so astronomically low. 4th round picks, IMO, should not be "hope" picks on a team as good as the Bengals.

In 2 years, I hope Erick All is a monster. He deserves to be cheered on to become his absolute best. I'm of the opinion that type of pick is for a team in a different situation or later rounds. To me, the 4th round pick would've been of much higher value if they took a player who is ready to actually compete and play by getting a full offseason of work in.

Until proven otherwise (which I hope I am) this was a total lighting on fire of a strong draft pick postion for a player they could have gotten a round or 2 later, when it makes more sense to gamble.

[PDub80]

(04-28-2024, 08:21 PM)Destro Wrote: College or Pro, they had an injury, recovered and played well. And the guys mentioned were all older when the injury occurred. If you were in a panic over a FA or something, maybe some validity. Getting upset over a 4th round draft choice is just a bit off.

2018 Mark Walton
2019 Michael Jordan, Renell Wren
2020 Akeem Davis-Gaither
2021 D'Ante Smith, Tyler Shelvin, Cam Sample
2022 Cordell Volson
2023 Charlie jones

Fourth Round is not where we find our Pro Bowlers at. Keep being upset by it.

Since you're a casual fan who just started watching the Bengals in the last 5 years I don't mean to bang a drum in your face so hard. Sorry for that.

- Being draft picks, it DOES matter when they are injured and how many major injuries/surgeries they have. That's the topic of discussion. Not "can guys can come back from injury". Like, no $#%*, Sherlock. Of course they can. But coming off of major injuries and missing the start to their pro career? The list of success stories like that is TINY.

The Bengals should not be throwing 4th rounders away - especially ones with  major surgeries and only 10 games played in the last 2 years - , yet they do nearly every draft. Duke Tobin is NOT good at finding consistent value there.

- Bengals found Geno Atkins in the 4th round. That's the lone bright spot in the last 25 years.