Fire Bell or not ?

[*bengalfan74*]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/is-it-time-for-the-cincinnati-reds-to-move-on-from-david-bell/ar-BB1mMYID?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=ASTS&cvid=a39bd0802ba44abeb988d62d40e23535&ei=6

"Does this team need a change more than it needs David Bell? I’ll let you decide."

Like the author says, I really doubt Bell is on any kinda hot seat, yet. And I highly doubt barring a total collapse he's going anywhere this season.

But again like the author says why in the name of cuss words does he continue to run Mike Ford out there batting 3rd? Why does Bell continue to have Benson leadoff? Why doesn't Bell insert Fraley into more games? Hell with the L/R pitcher crap at all costs.

Mix it up Bell, try something different, try something against the grain. Put your laptop down and manage.

[samhain]

(05-21-2024, 12:31 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/is-it-time-for-the-cincinnati-reds-to-move-on-from-david-bell/ar-BB1mMYID?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=ASTS&cvid=a39bd0802ba44abeb988d62d40e23535&ei=6

"Does this team need a change more than it needs David Bell? I’ll let you decide."

Like the author says, I really doubt Bell is on any kinda hot seat, yet. And I highly doubt barring a total collapse he's going anywhere this season.

But again like the author says why in the name of cuss words does he continue to run Mike Ford out there batting 3rd? Why does Bell continue to have Benson leadoff? Why doesn't Bell insert Fraley into more games? Hell with the L/R pitcher crap at all costs.

Mix it up Bell, try something different, try something against the grain. Put your laptop down and manage.

I'm not a Bell fan, but firing him probably doesn't help a whole lot.  Whoever steps in still has to run out a lineup with the likes of Maile (major regression), India (significant regression), Benson (sub 200 hitter, major regression, miscast role-player), Mike Ford (shouldn't be on the big league roster), Espinal (another AAAA player and major offensive liability), Connor Cappel (minor leaguer playing big league cosplay), and the Jacob Wildebeest or what ever the hell his name is (you guessed it, another should-be Louisville Bat).  This group will comprise more than a 3rd of the roster every game.  

Also Steer is playing like crap.  Also Elly is in a slump and pressing.  Candelario has been showing a pulse, but it's too little too late.  

The only positive thing about firing Bell is that it's a tangible change that can actually be made.  The roster and player performance are a way bigger issue and there's not a fix for those two things.  Not unless they want to make trades as SD did for Arraez.  I'm not sure how prudent that would be, either.  

As for the total collapse thing, I think what we're seeing fits that description.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-24-2024, 05:06 PM)samhain Wrote: I'm not a Bell fan, but firing him probably doesn't help a whole lot.  Whoever steps in still has to run out a lineup with the likes of Maile (major regression), India (significant regression), Benson (sub 200 hitter, major regression, miscast role-player), Mike Ford (shouldn't be on the big league roster), Espinal (another AAAA player and major offensive liability), Connor Cappel (minor leaguer playing big league cosplay), and the Jacob Wildebeest or what ever the hell his name is (you guessed it, another should-be Louisville Bat).  This group will comprise more than a 3rd of the roster every game.  

Also Steer is playing like crap.  Also Elly is in a slump and pressing.  Candelario has been showing a pulse, but it's too little too late.  

The only positive thing about firing Bell is that it's a tangible change that can actually be made.  The roster and player performance are a way bigger issue and there's not a fix for those two things.  Not unless they want to make trades as SD did for Arraez.  I'm not sure how prudent that would be, either.  

As for the total collapse thing, I think what we're seeing fits that description.

Me either

But you can't blame Bell for everything wrong here. As you say he's stuck with the replacements lineup through no fault of his own.

I've been holding out hope for India but he's just a bench player, to inconsistent at plate and his defense just isn't good. Was also holding out hope for Benson but he's the same as India. Candle was a complete waste. I'm not even sure Ford should be on a minor league team? Same for Espinal

And as you say the call up's aren't ready.

But I still hope this is Bell's last season

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Fire everyone from top to bottom in the FO, Managers, and Coaches (majors and minors).

Just a big 'ol cesspool of nepotism and cronyism that will never win or produce star players.

You can point to money disparity all you want, but when was the last time we developed a genuine homegrown star player? 2008 with Cueto? 2007 with Votto? That was 16 years ago. Sure MAYBE we could point to EDLC in a few years because he's exciting as hell when he's hot with his combination of speed and power, but ultimately he's currently a career .240 hitter that strikes out 230 times per 162 games and is on pace to make >30 errors this year.

When was the last time we said "oh man, this Reds team is will coached, we are good at the fundamentals?" This is what happens when you spend years and years just hiring your friends who failed at their jobs elsewhere to your FO and hiring your children and your friends children to run things.

Even if we had $200m/yr to spend on payroll we'd be the Mets, not the Dodgers. Need a full clean sweep of the organization. Preferably with new ownership as well otherwise I don't think anything will ever change. We haven't won a postseason series since 1995, 28 years and I am comfortable in saying this year isn't the year that will end that streak. Only 4 other teams have at least 10 year streaks and the second longest after us is 18 years and at least those 18 years' last appearance was a World Series.

[samhain]

(05-25-2024, 03:14 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Fire everyone from top to bottom in the FO, Managers, and Coaches (majors and minors).

Just a big 'ol cesspool of nepotism and cronyism that will never win or produce star players.

You can point to money disparity all you want, but when was the last time we developed a genuine homegrown star player? 2008 with Cueto? 2007 with Votto? That was 16 years ago. Sure MAYBE we could point to EDLC in a few years because he's exciting as hell when he's hot with his combination of speed and power, but ultimately he's currently a career .240 hitter that strikes out 230 times per 162 games and is on pace to make >30 errors this year.

When was the last time we said "oh man, this Reds team is will coached, we are good at the fundamentals?" This is what happens when you spend years and years just hiring your friends who failed at their jobs elsewhere to your FO and hiring your children and your friends children to run things.

Even if we had $200m/yr to spend on payroll we'd be the Mets, not the Dodgers. Need a full clean sweep of the organization. Preferably with new ownership as well otherwise I don't think anything will ever change. We haven't won a postseason series since 1995, 28 years and I am comfortable in saying this year isn't the year that will end that streak. Only 4 other teams have at least 10 year streaks and the second longest after us is 18 years and at least those 18 years' last appearance was a World Series.

I think they've made some commendable changes.  

The big one is development of starting pitching.  I always felt that this team's biggest flaw organizationally (outside of a high school lunch money budget, of course), was the inability to develop quality young controllable starters.  It's way too risky and expensive for almost any club to shop for in FA, much less the Castellini-owned Reds.  

Now, even the most hardened critic of the organization has to admit, they have loads of good to solid young starters.  They also just happen to have more coming up through the minors relatively quickly.  

The seasons where we pine for the Robert Stephensons of the world are over.  

To me, this was the biggest piece of the puzzle for the Reds as an organization, and they've found a way to make it fit.  St Louis built their reputation on having an seemingly endless supply of young arms.  That's how a team in a market like this becomes a consistent winner.  

The hard part is getting the ownership to figure out that spending money will make them money if they're smart about it.  Maybe get them to hand out with the Brown/Blackburn family for a week or so.  They still retained their beloved nepotism while managing to bring the Bengals into the present day NFL.  They went from perennial cartoon villains to heroes in just a few years (with the help of a certain quarterback, obviously).  

Imagine the Reds making relevant FA signings for 5 straight seasons like the Bengals have.  Imagine them aggressively addressing specific needs the very second that FA opens up in the fall.  

This is wandering a bit, but just think about the past 5 Bengals offseasons.  Every single one since Burrow arrived.  By the time the FA and the draft are over, the fanbase is foaming at the mouth waiting for the opening kickoff.  Every year there's optimism, even Super-Bowl winning optimism in the last 2.  That's an entire offseason of merchandise and ticket sales.  It's almost half a year of making money before the product even get onto the field because the fans eat it up.

That's all a fanbase can reasonably ask of an organization.  Have the Reds ever really given us that?  Maybe in 2013 they did, but that's about it.  

How many much more merchandise do you think the Bengals sell now compared to pre-2020?  Season tickets had and may still have a waitlist.  The team value and profile are undoubtedly in a much better place.  

Why can't the small-time fruit-mongers figure this out?  Spend to make.  Quality proven offensive talent doesn't carry the same risk as pitching.  It should be plug and play, and this ballpark should make it even easier to attract.  Stop signing guys like Moose and Candelario.  You aren't swimming in Ohtani waters, but guys like Teoscar Hernandez should be perfectly within budget.  

They even have in-house stars like Elly to build around, as the Bengals have with Burrow are the receivers.  

Even in the 2010-13 era when they had a loaded home-grown group, it took them forever to acquire a legit leadoff hitter.  It was the one piece they really needed.  They got Choo for one year then turned back into a turd right after.  

I feel like the in-house development is on a solid track.  They just need to figure out how to effectively use FA to finish off a roster.  Time is always of the essence, as the young guys will eventually leave, but dawdling around while a team is close is just a waste.  You might as well sell off the young guys while they still have several years and big value if you're going to be that cheap and lazy.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-26-2024, 12:12 PM)samhain Wrote: I feel like the in-house development is on a solid track.  They just need to figure out how to effectively use FA to finish off a roster.  Time is always of the essence, as the young guys will eventually leave, but dawdling around while a team is close is just a waste.  You might as well sell off the young guys while they still have several years and big value if you're going to be that cheap and lazy.

Yup 

They have a fairly short window, next couple years before Elly, McClain, CES, Marte, and which ever starting pitchers develop ? are off to the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Astros or whoever.

They've got to act soon

[samhain]

(05-26-2024, 03:32 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yup 

They have a fairly short window, next couple years before Elly, McClain, CES, Marte, and which ever starting pitchers develop ? are off to the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Astros or whoever.

They've got to act soon

The Astros and Braves are always pointed out as the blueprint for teams seeking to build internally.  The Orioles and D-Backs as well.  All of those teams have added major pieces form outside the organization in both FA and trades.  The Astros springboard into a consistent power.  I don't know if the Reds have the balls or smarts to pull that off.  

[SladeX]

Bell fired today.

https://www.mlb.com/news/reds-part-ways-with-manager-david-bell?partnerID=mlbapp-iOS_article-share

[*michaelsean*]

Weird to fire him before the season ends. He should be gone, but ownership still sucks.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Someone check on Lance McAlister.

[Goalpost]

Per ESPN write up...

Among those who could be in consideration to replace Bell: Skip Schumaker, who is expected to leave the Miami Marlins at the end of the season; David Ross, the former Chicago Cubs manager who spent three seasons as a catcher with the Reds; and Eduardo Perez, the ESPN analyst and former Cincinnati first baseman who is the son of Reds legend Tony Perez.

[Timanky12]

(09-23-2024, 12:21 AM)Goalpost Wrote: Per ESPN write up...

Among those who could be in consideration to replace Bell: Skip Schumaker, who is expected to leave the Miami Marlins at the end of the season; David Ross, the former Chicago Cubs manager who spent three seasons as a catcher with the Reds; and Eduardo Perez, the ESPN analyst and former Cincinnati first baseman who is the son of Reds legend Tony Perez.

They better be looking outside the box, or we will be in the same situation a couple years down the road. 

[*bengalfan74*]

Oh sweet !

[Goalpost]

I'd certainly give an interview to Larkin to gauge his interest and price.

[Timanky12]

I think the Reds are trying to save their season ticket holder base, that’s why they fired him before the season ends.
Before they send out their season ticket prepay to their base.

[Timanky12]

Reds shut out 14 times this season, that’s almost 10% of the games, ridiculous.

[Goalpost]

Sean Casey's name has also been mentioned.

[Goalpost]

https://www.wlwt.com/article/reds-give-the-ax-to-manager-david-bell/62325311

Only 12 minutes...Krall's press conference today.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-23-2024, 12:21 AM)Goalpost Wrote: Per ESPN write up...

Among those who could be in consideration to replace Bell: Skip Schumaker, who is expected to leave the Miami Marlins at the end of the season; David Ross, the former Chicago Cubs manager who spent three seasons as a catcher with the Reds; and Eduardo Perez, the ESPN analyst and former Cincinnati first baseman who is the son of Reds legend Tony Perez.

So... 
Former Red with Walt Jocketty connections with a losing record who will be fired.
Former Red with Walt Jocketty connections with a losing record who has been fired.
Former Red with Walt Jocketty connections (and son of a former Red) who hasn't coached in over a decade (2013) and has never managed in MLB.

Sure glad the Reds are learning from their mistakes and are open to changing their ways away from being an unsuccessful team mired in nepotism and cronyism. Really willing to bring in new blood with fresh ideas on how to shake things up. 


- - - - - -

We REALLY need a new owner to just scorched earth this entire franchise.

[CJD]

I gotta say, I'm shocked.

I thought Bell was going to be given another year since this one was littered with injuries to key players.

I'm glad he wasn't, because I don't think he is going to be the manager that leads us to our first playoff victory in over 30 years, but I'm surprised Krall agrees with me.