Age of the Defense

[CJD]

I was watching the Steelers game on Monday night and I saw impact plays from several young players that I remember wanting us to draft (Keeanu Benton, Joey Porter Jr, Nick Herbig). And it made me think of our defense. When was the last time we hit on a defensive player in the draft?

It's been a while. So long, in fact, that the majority of our defense is hovering around 30 years old.

Trey Hendrickson - turning 30 in December
Sam Hubbard - turning 30 next June
Sheldon Rankins - Turned 30 last April
BJ Hill - turning 30 next April
Mike Hilton - turned 30 last March
Vonn Bell - turning 30 in December

Even Germaine Pratt and Logan Wilson are turning 29 next summer.

The only young players on our defense are our starting CBs CTB (25) and DJ Turner (23) and then Geno Stone (25).

The young guns that were supposed to come in and inject youth into this defense (Myles Murphy, Joseph Ossai, Jordan Battle, Dax Hill, Cam Sample, Zach Carter) have either not impressed, been injured or been cut entirely (Carter...).

In retrospect, it's not surprising that our defense is so bad this year. The core players get older every year, but we never replace or supplement them due to our drafting failures.

[*bengalfan74*]

Our missing so badly with the draft is killing this team, we're batting like .125, especially drafting both O and D linemen. Don't know if you saw the article Sunset posted in another thread? But Volson is like our best hit among linemen lately. And he's barely serviceable at best.

Things have changed a lot since the coming of ZT and JB (for the better) free agents and so on ......BUT. Some things are still the same. We desperately need a real GM and an entirely different/better draft system. Whoever is setting up the big board is failing. We all know the list, Carman, Williams, Carter....on and on.

If this team wants to have any shot in the JB era they got to change this and quick.

[lone bengal]

We can’t even get a solid rotational piece for a few quality reps we’re getting complete zeros like Zack Carter and Ossai and so on. Tyler Shelvin another miss 4th rd. only 26 and not even on the roster. The mid rd. D-line used to be are sweet spot for D-line , Atkins ,Peko, Michael Johnson, Hubbard even Brandon Thompson was a solid backup DT.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-30-2024, 09:23 AM)CJD Wrote: I was watching the Steelers game on Monday night and I saw impact plays from several young players that I remember wanting us to draft (Keeanu Benton, Joey Porter Jr, Nick Herbig). And it made me think of our defense. When was the last time we hit on a defensive player in the draft?

It's been a while. So long, in fact, that the majority of our defense is hovering around 30 years old.

Trey Hendrickson - turning 30 in December
Sam Hubbard - turning 30 next June
Sheldon Rankins - Turned 30 last April
BJ Hill - turning 30 next April
Mike Hilton - turned 30 last March
Vonn Bell - turning 30 in December

Interestingly enough, Sam Hubbard is the only one on that list that we drafted. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-30-2024, 10:41 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Interestingly enough, Sam Hubbard is the only one on that list that we drafted. 

Right !!

I remember hearing an announcer saying back like 3rd game of the season and I don't remember the exact stats but. In the first two games our young players from the top 3 rounds of the last couple drafts had like a combined total of 23 snaps or so?? somewhere in there??

Other than the couldn't miss JB, Chase, Higgins kinda, under ZT we only have a couple hits. Our drafting has went down the toilet. You just can't miss this badly in the top 3 rounds.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Bates is the last true impact player we drafted on defense and he was under Marvin.

[CJD]

(10-30-2024, 11:47 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bates is the last true impact player we drafted on defense and he was under Marvin.

I think Logan Wilson has been a quality player. It's just MLB is generally the lowest impact position on the defense. But other than him, I agree. Our defensive drafting (and most of our offensive drafting, tbh) has been an absolute wasteland.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-30-2024, 09:23 AM)CJD Wrote: I was watching the Steelers game on Monday night and I saw impact plays from several young players that I remember wanting us to draft (Keeanu Benton, Joey Porter Jr, Nick Herbig). And it made me think of our defense. When was the last time we hit on a defensive player in the draft?

It's been a while. So long, in fact, that the majority of our defense is hovering around 30 years old.

Trey Hendrickson - turning 30 in December
Sam Hubbard - turning 30 next June
Sheldon Rankins - Turned 30 last April
BJ Hill - turning 30 next April
Mike Hilton - turned 30 last March
Vonn Bell - turning 30 in December

Even Germaine Pratt and Logan Wilson are turning 29 next summer.

The only young players on our defense are our starting CBs CTB (25) and DJ Turner (23) and then Geno Stone (25).

The young guns that were supposed to come in and inject youth into this defense (Myles Murphy, Joseph Ossai, Jordan Battle, Dax Hill, Cam Sample, Zach Carter) have either not impressed, been injured or been cut entirely (Carter...).

In retrospect, it's not surprising that our defense is so bad this year. The core players get older every year, but we never replace or supplement them due to our drafting failures.

I agree we need to hit better in draft but for Steelers, they have hit on some picks especially on defense but they have misses and mix  especially on offense last 5 to 6 drafts in 1st/2nd rounds 

 2019- traded up for Bush LB, he is gone, 2nd round D Johnson WR gone
2020 1st Claypool, gone
2021-  1st Harris mix reviews, has been benched, disappears some games it seems, 2nd Freiermuth- had one season over 500 yards,
2022 1st-  Picket - gone  Pickens- similar to Harris 
2023-  1st round- Jones OT- low rated OT
2024- 1st Fautanu- had more injury issues than Mims in college, and now out for year with knee injury

[WeezyBengal]

They are slow on defense and it shows. Lots of holes to fill.

[WeezyBengal]

(10-30-2024, 11:47 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bates is the last true impact player we drafted on defense and he was under Marvin.

I know it sounds absolutely insane, but I'd 1000% bring on Marvin as a defensive talent evaluator. I know the game has changed since hes coached, but he made some damn good defensive draft picks when he was here. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-30-2024, 02:15 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I know it sounds absolutely insane, but I'd 1000% bring on Marvin as a defensive talent evaluator. I know the game has changed since hes coached, but he made some damn good defensive draft picks when he was here. 

That's because it IS insane.

Marvin Lewis era defensive draft picks post-Mike Zimmer ('14-'18)....

Darqueze Dennard
Will Clarke
Marquis Flowers
Lavelle Westbrooks
Paul Dawson
Josh Shaw
Marcus Hardison
Derron Smith
William Jackson III
Nick Vigil
Andrew Billings
Clayton Fejedelem
Jordan Willis
Carl Lawson
Ryan Glasgow
Jessie Bates III
Sam Hubbard
Malik Jefferson
Davontae Harris
Andrew Brown
Darius Phillips

5 years and 21 picks (9 of them being first 2 day picks). All we got was Jessie Bates and Sam Hubbard. When Carl Lawson is your 3rd best in a 5 year stretch, it was a bad 5 year stretch.

[*bfine32*]

(10-30-2024, 02:50 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's because it IS insane.

Marvin Lewis era defensive draft picks post-Mike Zimmer ('14-'18)....

Darqueze Dennard
Will Clarke
Marquis Flowers
Lavelle Westbrooks
Paul Dawson
Josh Shaw
Marcus Hardison
Derron Smith
William Jackson III
Nick Vigil
Andrew Billings
Clayton Fejedelem
Jordan Willis
Carl Lawson
Ryan Glasgow
Jessie Bates III
Sam Hubbard
Malik Jefferson
Davontae Harris
Andrew Brown
Darius Phillips

5 years and 21 picks (9 of them being first 2 day picks). All we got was Jessie Bates and Sam Hubbard. When Carl Lawson is your 3rd best in a 5 year stretch, it was a bad 5 year stretch.

Not that it matters, but I'd take Andrew Billings over Carl. We got rid of him too soon. I blame Lou. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2024, 09:23 AM)CJD Wrote: I was watching the Steelers game on Monday night and I saw impact plays from several young players that I remember wanting us to draft (Keeanu Benton, Joey Porter Jr, Nick Herbig). And it made me think of our defense. When was the last time we hit on a defensive player in the draft?

It's been a while. So long, in fact, that the majority of our defense is hovering around 30 years old.

Trey Hendrickson - turning 30 in December
Sam Hubbard - turning 30 next June
Sheldon Rankins - Turned 30 last April
BJ Hill - turning 30 next April
Mike Hilton - turned 30 last March
Vonn Bell - turning 30 in December

Even Germaine Pratt and Logan Wilson are turning 29 next summer.

The only young players on our defense are our starting CBs CTB (25) and DJ Turner (23) and then Geno Stone (25).

The young guns that were supposed to come in and inject youth into this defense (Myles Murphy, Joseph Ossai, Jordan Battle, Dax Hill, Cam Sample, Zach Carter) have either not impressed, been injured or been cut entirely (Carter...).

In retrospect, it's not surprising that our defense is so bad this year. The core players get older every year, but we never replace or supplement them due to our drafting failures.

Yep ....and it's typical of this front office. I said it twice in other threads, but I believe I was a little too harsh on Marvin. We finally had a Super Bowl worthy roster (and even that one was VERY suspect on the oline), and it lasted all of two years before they ****** it up. They're PATHETIC. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2024, 11:39 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right !!

I remember hearing an announcer saying back like 3rd game of the season and I don't remember the exact stats but. In the first two games our young players from the top 3 rounds of the last couple drafts had like a combined total of 23 snaps or so?? somewhere in there??

Other than the couldn't miss JB, Chase, Higgins kinda, under ZT we only have a couple hits. Our drafting has went down the toilet. You just can't miss this badly in the top 3 rounds.

Go back and look at 2015-2017. Cedric Ogbuehi, John Ross, WJIII were your first round picks. PATHETIC. Nowhere else in the NFL would Duke Tobin still have a job.

[*ochocincos*]

Holy crap, Pratt and Wilson are 28 currently?
I coulda sworn they were like 25-26.
I guess they were older when they joined the league (23 and 24 years old).

Wilson is the one who I would say is the last "impactful" defensive draft pick they've had.
CTB has been good in spurts.
Hill might have been on his way to becoming impactful if not for injury. He was trending up, if anything.
Bengals have to make a decision on his 5th year option this coming offseason.

None of the DL have shown enough to make me think yes yet.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-30-2024, 05:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not that it matters, but I'd take Andrew Billings over Carl. We got rid of him too soon. I blame Lou. 

BILLINGS!!!

Of course I agree. To CJD, yes we are aging a bit and I want to bring back a couple of those aging vets just because they are proven in Trey 
and BJ. Just have to hope the youth already drafted pans out and we get back to drafting well after a decent FA this Offseason.

[puddycat]

Adversity has interesting benefits. For all the complaining I've done about not knowing what we have in our picks previously, by the end of this year we'll have great idea about Sims, Jenkins, Jackson, All, and maybe Burton., along with Murphy, Turner, and Battle.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-31-2024, 03:46 PM)puddycat Wrote: Adversity has interesting benefits.  For all the complaining I've done about not knowing what we have in our picks previously, by the end of this year we'll have great idea about Sims, Jenkins, Jackson, All, and maybe Burton., along with Murphy, Turner, and Battle.

Pat Sims is still on this team?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-31-2024, 03:46 PM)puddycat Wrote: Adversity has interesting benefits.  For all the complaining I've done about not knowing what we have in our picks previously, by the end of this year we'll have great idea about Sims, Jenkins, Jackson, All, and maybe Burton., along with Murphy, Turner, and Battle.

Which would be great if we entered this year expecting to go 5-12 or 6-11 so sorting things out while losing a year doesn't matter as much. Not great when you were expecting to compete for a SB and your in-his-prime franchise QB had his final year of being affordable before he nearly doubles in cap cost.