If they all were fired

[*bfine32*]

I was listening to Sirius this afternoon and a frustrated Bengal fan came on the vent.

He started with Mikey being 89 (is he really that old) and had enough of Zac, Lou, Duke, Pritcher and the whole FO/Coaching staff (you know the type). He said if they were all fired today, they would never get an offer from another NFL Franchise.

I was waiting for Kirwan and Milz to correct him on Zac and they eventually brought that up as an after-thought, but the person they both balked on loudly and immediately was Duke. They both said Duke would be snapped up before the ink dried on the pink slip and laughed at dude for thinking otherwise.

Just made me think. Everyone loves our drafts he day after but they seem to never pan out.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I think Darrin Simmons (though his stock also seems to have dropped the last couple years with Robbins last year, McPherson this year, and some really bad returners), Brad Kragthorpe, and Troy Walters would all find jobs pretty quickly. The latter two maybe because of how good Burrow/Chase/Tee are rather than the job they've done with anyone else.

I'm not sure how many others would find jobs again at their current job level.

[jj22]

Everyone loves our drafts because Duke and the scout(s) uses their top 300 draft prospect rankings (Kiper) and mock drafts. 

So they get high praise for the pundits favorites and recognizable names. 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-18-2024, 11:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I was listening to Sirius this afternoon and a frustrated Bengal fan came on the vent.

He started with Mikey being 89 (is he really that old) and had enough of Zac, Lou, Duke, Pritcher and the whole FO/Coaching staff (you know the type). He said if they were all fired today, they would never get an offer from another NFL Franchise.

I was waiting for Kirwan and Milz to correct him on Zac and they eventually brought that up as an after-thought, but the person they both balked on loudly and immediately was Duke. They both said Duke would be snapped up before the ink dried on the pink slip and laughed at dude for thinking otherwise.

Just made me think. Everyone loves our drafts he day after but they seem to never pan out.

Maybe they're failing to develop people.

[QueenCity]

Only thing I'll say about Duke is he's likely one of the few GM's in football with an arm tied behind his back.

We really don't know how much say Duke has on draft picks or free-agency. I'm guessing not as much as we think or would want.

[*bfine32*]

(11-19-2024, 12:07 AM)QueenCity Wrote: Only thing I'll say about Duke is he's likely one of the few GM's in football with an arm tied behind his back.

We really don't know how much say Duke has on draft picks or free-agency. I'm guessing not as much as we think or would want.

That's what surprised me. I expected them to balk loud and hard on Zac, but they didn't. They were 100% on Team Duke. 

I'd imagine PK and Milz get a lot of "behind the scenes" reports.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-19-2024, 12:05 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Maybe they're failing to develop people.

The guys who are busts and go elsewhere aren't really tearing it up.

Ogbuehi, Ross, Price, Jackson III, Dennard, Hill, Clarke, Bodine, Dawson, Shaw, Vigil, Willis, Glasgow, M Jefferson, Finley, Wren, M Jordan, Kroft, Kirkpatrick, Still, Thompson, Charles, S Williams, Porter.... just some round 1-4 guys who were bad here, left, and didn't become particularly good or anything.

Not sure the last guy who we drafted and was bad here, went somewhere else, and became really good...
Maybe Jake Elliott from the 2017 draft, but he wasn't very good for 4 years, was very good for 3 years, and now is back to being bad. That's not development, that's just an inconsistent kicker.
Probably the actual answer is Clinton McDonald from our 2009 draft.

[*bfine32*]

(11-19-2024, 12:24 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The guys who are busts and go elsewhere aren't really tearing it up.

Ogbuehi, Ross, Price, Jackson III, Dennard, Hill, Clarke, Bodine, Dawson, Shaw, Vigil, Willis, Glasgow, M Jefferson, Finley, Wren, M Jordan, Kroft, Kirkpatrick, Still, Thompson, Charles, S Williams, Porter.... just some round 1-4 guys who were bad here, left, and didn't become particularly good or anything.

Not sure the last guy who we drafted and was bad here, went somewhere else, and became really good...
Maybe Jake Elliott from the 2017 draft, but he wasn't very good for 4 years, was very good for 3 years, and now is back to being bad. That's not development, that's just an inconsistent kicker.
Probably the actual answer is Clinton McDonald from our 2009 draft.

Andrew Billings?

[jj22]

Pat Sims?

[Mickeypoo]

I didn’t realize Mike Brown gave up his GM title and named Tobin as GM.

[J24]

Duke is a much bigger problem than Zac will ever be.

[*psychdoctor*]

Is it Tobin or the size of the draft department. Maybe he is not provided with enough info for later rounds. Also, I think the draft philosophy needs to change. Build the trenches then find skill players later in draft. There are some exceptions to this thought though. The really good CB go early it seems. The Bengals also need better free agent evaluations. The team has to resign good players selectively, letting Bates and Reader go hurt.

[SladeX]

(11-19-2024, 04:28 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: Is it Tobin or the size of the draft department. Maybe he is not provided with enough info for later rounds. Also, I think the draft philosophy needs to change. Build the trenches then find skill players later in draft. There are some exceptions to this thought though. The really good CB go early it seems. The Bengals also need better free agent evaluations. The team has to resign good players selectively, letting Bates and Reader go hurt.

The Chargers were starting 2 fifth round corners… .

Beef up scouting
Focus on the lines
Focus on quality coaching, especially for the lines

[Destro]

Hired where? Plenty of people leave and get hired on a much lower level. Not many HC go from HC to HC on a different team after being canned. Many go to much lower level positions and see if they can make it back up again. More and more people come up in college, to NFL and ascend. Lateral and upward movements from being fired is the exception, not the rule. ( Note: I said fired ).

[R3stangs]

(11-18-2024, 11:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I was listening to Sirius this afternoon and a frustrated Bengal fan came on the vent.

He started with Mikey being 89 (is he really that old) and had enough of Zac, Lou, Duke, Pritcher and the whole FO/Coaching staff (you know the type). He said if they were all fired today, they would never get an offer from another NFL Franchise.

I was waiting for Kirwan and Milz to correct him on Zac and they eventually brought that up as an after-thought, but the person they both balked on loudly and immediately was Duke. They both said Duke would be snapped up before the ink dried on the pink slip and laughed at dude for thinking otherwise.

Just made me think. Everyone loves our drafts he day after but they seem to never pan out.

Was thinking on this the other day. We keep saying we missed in the drafts yet on draft day we're always ranked as having done well by virtually all the draft experts.

Have to wonder is it that we're missing in the drafts or we have no idea how to develop players due to coaching inadequacy. I tend to think the latter. Throw in that this team simply doesn't have a culture of winning. I hate the Ravens and Steelers but those guys have fostered a culture that we don't have and simply don't accept losing the way we do. 

[Sled21]

10-16 Patriots-L
25-26 Chiefs-L
33-38 Commanders- L
34-24 Panthers-W
38-41 Ravens-L
17-7 Giants-W
21-14 Browns-W
17-37 Eagles-L
41-24 Raiders-W
34-35 Ravens-L
27-34 Chargers-L

I don't think the OP's post about the caller saying Pitcher would never work in the NFL again rings true. The number of points put up by the offense this year, while missing Tee most of the year, along with missing All, T. Brown, should have equated to more wins if the defense was not a sieve most of the year. With even a good defense, there should probably already be about 8 wins on that board.

[Big Boss]

Yeah. Minus some lapses in judgment from a play-calling standpoint, the offense has mostly looked pretty damn good this year.

[TecmoBengals]

(11-18-2024, 11:41 PM)jj22 Wrote: Everyone loves our drafts because Duke and the scout(s) uses their top 300 draft prospect rankings (Kiper) and mock drafts. 

So they get high praise for the pundits favorites and recognizable names. 

Has Duke overlooked some obvious talent in the draft because he wasn't evaluating players the same way as those making draft prospect rankings?

That would be an interesting analysis to see. For example, when Duke took Myles Murphy what players were left on the draft prospect rankings lists from various self-labeled draft experts?

In hindsight, would do Duke do better if he just used an internet list instead of his own professional judgment calls? I'd find it humorous to see a break down.

[*bengalfan74*]

It's been said many times by many posters in many threads going waayyy back, But it would be very interesting to find out how/what/when/where/why the decisions are made regarding everything player wise on this team.

Who has the final say on draft picks? Who decides what players we retain? Are let go? What our offers are? just on and on.

In other words how much of it is really on Tobin?

[2MinutesHate]

(11-19-2024, 12:07 AM)QueenCity Wrote: Only thing I'll say about Duke is he's likely one of the few GM's in football with an arm tied behind his back.

We really don't know how much say Duke has on draft picks or free-agency. I'm guessing not as much as we think or would want.

Exactly this.

Everybody wants to say that Mike Brown has stepped away and everyone else is doing the work until they start losing then all the sudden he's a part of it.
Mike Brown has not went anywhere and has always been there.  He's always seemed to have his fingerprints on everything.  The 90's, Dillon, Palmer, Marvin (16 years!), Burrow (#1) and Chase and the contract all smell of MFB.  

Our draft history has definite question marks over time.  I would think the Burton pick would be Mike's as he is always in the war room on draft day, even at 89.