2024 Defensive Personnel Failures

[SunsetBengal]

(12-04-2024, 07:07 PM)Timanky12 Wrote: 3 things wrong with the defense.

1 no pass rush
2 DB’s and safety’ s constantly out of position
3 can’t tackle a tackling dummy

I believe a new DC could fix #2 and #3, without any personnel changes. That does mean we don’t need replacements, but I think defense would be much improved.

I agree with that statement wholeheartedly. There is no excuse for poor tackling at the professional level. If the younger prospect aren't good at communicating in the defensive backfield, who's responsibility is it to ensure that they learn those skills?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-04-2024, 06:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You're different from me.
I never cared for Anderson.
Dude had ST written all over him.
Definitely not a FS in my eyes. Maybe a SS though.

I wasn't really in the camp of moving away from Dax Hill yet, but had I been, I wanted someone like Kevin Byard, Justin Simmons, or maybe Darnell Savage.
I remember when I saw Stone was signed, I was like, "WHO?!?!"
Dude wasn't even planned to be the starting FS for BAL in 2023. It was supposed to be Hamilton and Williams primarily with Stone as a rotational flex between SS and FS.
Prior to going down to injury, Marcus Williams was playing 86% of the defensive snaps. Hamilton played 91%.
Stone ended up playing 82% last year in part because of Williams missing 6 games, but prior to that he had never played more than 41% of defensive snaps.
This year, he's at 97% with CIN.

With all playoff teams having 8+ wins, Bengals need a ton of help to get into the playoff and if they're not getting into the playoffs, there's no reason to care to win any more games, IMO. I know some don't agree, but draft position is really all that matters if not making the playoffs.
I'd actually consider benching Stone the rest of the way and giving his reps to Anthony/Anderson to see if they can amount to anything before deciding to get a fun, new FS this offseason.
Gimme Starks or Watts in the draft if going that route.

Just because Tycen is big, doesn't mean he isn't fast and rangy. I agree on your other picks that we should of brought in instead, especially
Justin Simmons. I only knew about Geno Stone before we got him because another poster on here was pimping him, then I watched the 
highlights and was a little concerned but I thought he would of been a big time improvement over Nick Scott. 

Daihjan Anthony I would also give a shot, but I like Tycen better from what he has shown in the NFL and in preseason. They probably keep
Tycen on ST's where he is balling so Anthony is probably the most likely if they even do make a change. Who knows though, nothing would 
surprise me with Lou and the Defense.

(12-04-2024, 07:03 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Here's what I think. I feel like they just assumed that because Stone was a Raven, and that because they draft and develop defensive talent so well, that he was on the verge of breaking out as a really good player and just needed full time reps to show it.  However, what they might not have considered is that this isn't the Ravens, there isn't a rich culture of defensive greatness and accountability here. 

Probably right, pretty lazy rational though from them if true. We need to develop our own players, not rely on other teams to do so.

Shows how bad our coaches are.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-04-2024, 07:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just because Tycen is big, doesn't mean he isn't fast and rangy. I agree on your other picks that we should of brought in instead, especially
Justin Simmons. I only knew about Geno Stone before we got him because another poster on here was pimping him, then I watched the 
highlights and was a little concerned but I thought he would of been a big time improvement over Nick Scott. 

Daihjan Anthony I would also give a shot, but I like Tycen better from what he has shown in the NFL and in preseason. They probably keep
Tycen on ST's where he is balling so Anthony is probably the most likely if they even do make a change. Who knows though, nothing would 
surprise me with Lou and the Defense.


Probably right, pretty lazy rational though from them if true. We need to develop our own players, not rely on other teams to do so.

Shows how bad our coaches are.

I know he's fast, but he only had 2 INTs in 51 games in college...IN THE MAC.
I want a FS who can be a ball hawk and cover, not just someone who is fast and athletic.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-04-2024, 08:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I know he's fast, but he only had 2 INTs in 51 games in college...IN THE MAC.
I want a FS who can be a ball hawk and cover, not just someone who is fast and athletic.

How do we know that he isn't? He's looked really good in preseason action, why not give him a chance in the big show? Seriously, if he's worse than Stone, they can always change back. It's not like there's anything big riding on the season at this point.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-03-2024, 02:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We have the league leaders in:

Passing Yards

Rushing Yards

Sacks

The current team is so close even with the crappy players that if Mac would have been good we'd be in a playoff spot right now. 

It's why it's such news nationally that we're losing. Folks know the talent on this team.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-04-2024, 08:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How do we know that he isn't? He's looked really good in preseason action, why not give him a chance in the big show? Seriously, if he's worse than Stone, they can always change back. It's not like there's anything big riding on the season at this point.

I'm willing to give him a chance, he's just never been someone I was excited about since he was drafted because he never has shown that skill set prior.
It's not like the Bengals have any other safeties causing/getting turnovers.

[Destro]

All these "question marks" need to be on the field. See if they are any good. Can they be elevated, stay the same, traded, cut? Let's find out. Bunch of draft picks folding the bench down.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-04-2024, 09:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm willing to give him a chance, he's just never been someone I was excited about since he was drafted because he never has shown that skill set prior.
It's not like the Bengals have any other safeties causing/getting turnovers.

Or even making great tackles...

Anderson has demonstrated his ability to run hard and make tackles, that's more than we're currently getting from our starters.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-04-2024, 09:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Or even making great tackles...

Anderson has demonstrated his ability to run hard and make tackles, that's more than we're currently getting from our starters.

It’s worse than I even thought.

Bengals Missed Tackle Percentage

26.7% - Trey Hendrickson
21.8% - Jay Tufele
19.8% - Geno Stone
17.9% - Akeem Davis-Gaither
16.7% - McKinnley Jackson
16.7% - Dax Hill
15.0% - BJ Hill
15.0% - Sheldon Rankins
13.5% - Vonn Bell
12.5% - Myles Murphy
12.3% - Germaine Pratt…

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 6, 2024

[*ochocincos*]

(12-06-2024, 01:16 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s worse than I even thought.

Bengals Missed Tackle Percentage

26.7% - Trey Hendrickson
21.8% - Jay Tufele
19.8% - Geno Stone
17.9% - Akeem Davis-Gaither
16.7% - McKinnley Jackson
16.7% - Dax Hill
15.0% - BJ Hill
15.0% - Sheldon Rankins
13.5% - Vonn Bell
12.5% - Myles Murphy
12.3% - Germaine Pratt…

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 6, 2024

Some context from Joe Goodberry on Trey Hendrickson, per a followup tweet:

Quote:Trey Hendrickson's rate is the 12th highest among qualifying edge defenders...and the rate is so high because Hendrickson doesn't make many tackles. He has 17 total tackles this year and 12 of them are from sacks. That's 5 other plays where he's made a tackle all year.

This is similar for all DL, as they usually aren't making many tackles, so any missed will be higher percentage.

Some DBs....
Geno Stone:
16 missed tackles, 53 solo tackles, 12 assists.
Stone's career missed tackle % is 18.8%.
For comparison, Jessie Bates is 13.9% missed tackles and career 12.6%

Dax Hill's is a bit skewed because of only 5 games, but his career % is 9.9%.
He was much more reliable as a tackler at FS.

Vonn Bell is also a career 9.9% missed tackles but he actually has lower miss % this year compared to 2022 when he missed 14.8%.
He was much better tackler with New Orleans compared to Cincy.

[Sled21]

(12-04-2024, 08:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How do we know that he isn't? He's looked really good in preseason action, why not give him a chance in the big show? Seriously, if he's worse than Stone, they can always change back. It's not like there's anything big riding on the season at this point.

[*bfine32*]

(12-04-2024, 09:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Just making sure you're paying attention 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-06-2024, 01:16 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s worse than I even thought.

Bengals Missed Tackle Percentage

26.7% - Trey Hendrickson
21.8% - Jay Tufele
19.8% - Geno Stone
17.9% - Akeem Davis-Gaither
16.7% - McKinnley Jackson
16.7% - Dax Hill
15.0% - BJ Hill
15.0% - Sheldon Rankins
13.5% - Vonn Bell
12.5% - Myles Murphy
12.3% - Germaine Pratt…

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 6, 2024

It's very easy to see why the missed tackle rates are so high. I rarely see the Bengals execute tackling by the legs, almost always high on the torso. Ball carrier spins or pinballs off and gains additional yardage.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-04-2024, 08:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I know he's fast, but he only had 2 INTs in 51 games in college...IN THE MAC.
I want a FS who can be a ball hawk and cover, not just someone who is fast and athletic.

Who is to say Tycen cannot be a ball hawk that can cover? You have to be fast and athletic to do so.

(12-04-2024, 08:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How do we know that he isn't? He's looked really good in preseason action, why not give him a chance in the big show? Seriously, if he's worse than Stone, they can always change back. It's not like there's anything big riding on the season at this point.

Exactly. Tycen was a ballhawk in preseason as well the year before last at times before the bad injury.

Not going to hurt seeing what Tycen can do in real games. We have seen what Stone does in real games and it is be a weak spot.

(12-04-2024, 09:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm willing to give him a chance, he's just never been someone I was excited about since he was drafted because he never has shown that skill set prior.
It's not like the Bengals have any other safeties causing/getting turnovers.

You must not of watched the preseason games last year before he got hurt.

He shown the skill set of a Free Safety during that preseason.

I don't trust the coaches to make a change though, especially on Defense.

All they have done is be the worst adjusting Defense in the league this year.

(12-06-2024, 03:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's very easy to see why the missed tackle rates are so high. I rarely see the Bengals execute tackling by the legs, almost always high on the torso. Ball carrier spins or pinballs off and gains additional yardage.

Yep, bad fundamentals brought on by poor coaching and laziness.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-06-2024, 02:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Some context from Joe Goodberry on Trey Hendrickson, per a followup tweet:


This is similar for all DL, as they usually aren't making many tackles, so any missed will be higher percentage.

Only having 5 other tackles that are non-sacks is awful for a DE that plays 70% of the snaps.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-06-2024, 03:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You must not of watched the preseason games last year before he got hurt.

He shown the skill set of a Free Safety during that preseason.

I don't trust the coaches to make a change though, especially on Defense.

All they have done is be the worst adjusting Defense in the league this year.

I have really no way to watch the preseason games being out of state other than trying to watch an illegal stream online, which I don't care to do.
Also, I haven't always watched the entirety of preseason games, so I might have missed some of Anderson getting in there.
I already pay for NFL Sunday Ticket and not going to pay for NFL+ or whatever it is on top of that. Too bad Sunday Ticket doesn't have preseason games too.

[Destro]

(12-06-2024, 06:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Only having 5 other tackles that are non-sacks is awful for a DE that plays 70% of the snaps.

I see he has 32 tackles on the year. Am I misunderstanding something? ( I definitely can be ).

[sandwedge]

(12-03-2024, 01:50 PM)Synric Wrote: It might sound cliche but Joe Burrow and Ja'Marr Chase raise the floor of this roster so much so that something as simple as tackling better on defense and better kicking they could be above .500. If I gambled Bengals making a comeback in 2025 would be an excellent bet.

The tackling or, the lack of, truly should be the nail in Lou's coffin... Any Defensive player that shows an inkling of arm tackling, looking at you Pratt, should be escorted to the locker room and shown the door.

[sandwedge]

(12-04-2024, 08:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How do we know that he isn't? He's looked really good in preseason action, why not give him a chance in the big show? Seriously, if he's worse than Stone, they can always change back. It's not like there's anything big riding on the season at this point.

For some reason they don't like to move ST players into their defensive position, until they absolutely have to.

[sandwedge]

(12-06-2024, 03:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's very easy to see why the missed tackle rates are so high. I rarely see the Bengals execute tackling by the legs, almost always high on the torso. Ball carrier spins or pinballs off and gains additional yardage.

Like tackling a 240LBS Rb last week. Nobody went low on him, just threw their arms around his shoulders...