2024 Defensive Personnel Failures

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-06-2024, 11:49 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Like tackling a 240LBS Rb last week. Nobody went low on him, just threw their arms around his shoulders... 

At least with Pratt, he seems to have actually tackling the guy as his second priority after trying to punch out the ball, so he goes high and gets embarrassed because he's not Charles Tillman.

[XsandOs]

(12-02-2024, 04:54 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I would argue they got what they paid for - a budget FA safety.

Bates - $16 mill APY
Scott - $4 mill APY
Stone - $7 mill APY

Bates is 5th highest paid safety in the league.
Stone is tied for 20th.
Scott was lower than that.

Good news is Budda Baker, Justin Reid, and Justin Simmons are all set to hit FA this coming offseason.
I'd slot any of them as starting FS and be comfortable with that.
Baker is a 6-time All-Star.
Simmons 2-time.
Reid is the youngest of the three at nearly 28 years old, but Simmons has been the best ball hawk, averaging 4 INTs per season in his career.
EDIT - Maybe ignore the above on the FA safeties lol. All 3 are not performing very well.
Baker - 23 missed tackles, 124 passer rating allowed
Reid - 4 missed tackles, 131.7 passer rating allowed
Simmons - 12 missed tackles, 98.7 passer rating allowed
Of the 3, I'd probably go Simmons, but I may be leaning more and more to early draft pick. I really like Malaki Starks in Rd 1 or Xavier Watts on Day 2.

Jevon Holland. $20M will be within reason. 

[XsandOs]

This could be (emphasizing COULD) a one year solution, if we pay market price for the following:

DE: Josh Sweat, Chase Young, Malcolm Koonce, Ojulari. Bengals like big DEs, so Koonce and Ojulari are out.
Interior D-Line: I see no one of value in 2025 FA list. which means draft. This year's draft has several quality interior D-Line.
Safety: Jevon Holland - young and will be highest paid S. Others are all 28+.
CB: Asante Samuel, Byron Murphy, DJ Reed, Carlton Davis. Samuel and Murphy are 25 and 26.

C: Dalman or bust.
OG: Smith (can't believe KC got a first rounder in the sixth round - blood clot and all aside).

[SunsetBengal]

(12-07-2024, 01:49 PM)XsandOs Wrote: This could be (emphasizing COULD) a one year solution, if we pay market price for the following:

DE: Josh Sweat, Chase Young, Malcolm Koonce, Ojulari. Bengals like big DEs, so Koonce and Ojulari are out.
Interior D-Line: I see no one of value in 2025 FA list. which means draft. This year's draft has several quality interior D-Line.
Safety: Jevon Holland - young and will be highest paid S. Others are all 28+.
CB: Asante Samuel, Byron Murphy, DJ Reed, Carlton Davis. Samuel and Murphy are 25 and 26.

C: Dalman or bust.
OG: Smith (can't believe KC got a first rounder in the sixth round - blood clot and all aside).

So basically, you're proposing that the Bengals should add about $80M AAV to the payroll? 

Even going cheap, say with only Holland and Smith, you're still looking at adding $40-45M for just the two of them. (which I could live with) 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-06-2024, 07:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I have really no way to watch the preseason games being out of state other than trying to watch an illegal stream online, which I don't care to do.
Also, I haven't always watched the entirety of preseason games, so I might have missed some of Anderson getting in there.
I already pay for NFL Sunday Ticket and not going to pay for NFL+ or whatever it is on top of that. Too bad Sunday Ticket doesn't have preseason games too.

Oh, okay. I have Gamepass so I watch every game after it is over even the Preseason games. Tycen Anderson was our best Defensive 
player in last years preseason, picking off QB's, making nice hits and showing his range to play Free Safety. Then he got hurt and was 
out all last season. This year he is our best ST's player and in my opinion should be rewarded with a shot at starting with how bad Geno
Stone has been IMO.

Or Daijahn Anthony even if we all hate him because of that penalty against the Quiefs that cost us the game even if the refs should of 
called holding on the play and it should of offset and replayed that 4th down...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-07-2024, 02:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So basically, you're proposing that the Bengals should add about $80M AAV to the payroll? 

Even going cheap, say with only Holland and Smith, you're still looking at adding $40-45M for just the two of them. (which I could live with) 

I am sure he means cutting Rankins, Stone and all the players that have sucked this year to free up money so we can make those moves...

[SunsetBengal]

(12-07-2024, 05:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am sure he means cutting Rankins, Stone and all the players that have sucked this year to free up money so we can make those moves...

Cutting those players also involves the team eating dead money. You do remember how the management feels about eating dead money, right?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-07-2024, 06:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Cutting those players also involves the team eating dead money. You do remember how the management feels about eating dead money, right?

Yes I do, but it needs to happen with Rankins and Stone at the very least who contribute nothing positive to the team while getting paid big money.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-07-2024, 06:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes I do, but it needs to happen with Rankins and Stone at the very least who contribute nothing positive to the team while getting paid big money.

I think that when Lou get's fired, we're likely to see Rankins and Stone hitting the road similarly. Lou has went on record claiming Stone to be his guy, and stating that the team was rolling with him. I'm willing to let the Vonn Bell situation go as dumb luck, he was really good when we last saw him in a Bengals uniform, we had no idea that he'd fall off a cliff that quickly. Although, Lou has had every opportunity this season to put Jordan Battle in, yet he's still rolled with Bell.

[J24]

(12-07-2024, 01:49 PM)XsandOs Wrote: This could be (emphasizing COULD) a one year solution, if we pay market price for the following:

DE: Josh Sweat, Chase Young, Malcolm Koonce, Ojulari. Bengals like big DEs, so Koonce and Ojulari are out.
Interior D-Line: I see no one of value in 2025 FA list. which means draft. This year's draft has several quality interior D-Line.
Safety: Jevon Holland - young and will be highest paid S. Others are all 28+.
CB: Asante Samuel, Byron Murphy, DJ Reed, Carlton Davis. Samuel and Murphy are 25 and 26.

C: Dalman or bust.
OG: Smith (can't believe KC got a first rounder in the sixth round - blood clot and all aside).

Milton Williams,  Osa Odighizuwa,  and Bobby Brown all are DT that fit the Bengals prototype FA. Mid 20s, + Athlectisim, and undervalued around the league.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-07-2024, 05:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Oh, okay. I have Gamepass so I watch every game after it is over even the Preseason games. Tycen Anderson was our best Defensive 
player in last years preseason, picking off QB's, making nice hits and showing his range to play Free Safety. Then he got hurt and was 
out all last season. This year he is our best ST's player and in my opinion should be rewarded with a shot at starting with how bad Geno
Stone has been IMO.

Or Daijahn Anthony even if we all hate him because of that penalty against the Quiefs that cost us the game even if the refs should of 
called holding on the play and it should of offset and replayed that 4th down...

I tried that one year after living out of market but I couldn't (and didn't want to) avoid finding out the scores of the games for 3 hours then also sitting through the replayed game for 3 hours after it had finished.

I'm a millennial and want it now! lol

[XsandOs]

(12-07-2024, 02:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So basically, you're proposing that the Bengals should add about $80M AAV to the payroll? 

Even going cheap, say with only Holland and Smith, you're still looking at adding $40-45M for just the two of them. (which I could live with) 

Sunset, I was going to comment about our visceral reaction as Bengals fans to improbability of getting high end players due to salary cap. But I won't., because I am in the same boat, having been conditioned over decades. I listed what I feel were the best potential UFAs in 2025.

But, I think there is a way to get the defense upgraded, without over spending.

If you recall, Hill and Apple were 1st and high 3rd round picks that we acquired at 25 years of age, who were good pickups. Chase Young and Okudah look the same to me. I would be intrigued to see if we can turn the careers of two young players around and get great value from them. 

I also feel that we can absorb a Jevon Holland type of a deal at $18M per year, if we cut Hubbard and Stone and let Bell walk. 

Then there is the D-Line question, which is the main area of concern - not just for interior pressure but also run stopping. We need a true run stopping NT. Jenkins is not it, and Jackson/Rogers are not there yet. For true interior pressure, we no longer have Larry O to go with Hill. So, do we keep Rankins or cut him? What would Hill cost to re-sign? This draft has several good DTs/NTs we could get in the first or early second round.

So for D-Line, it has to be a trade and/or the draft. Assuming we can re-sign Hill. If there is a Hendrickson holdout, then all bets are off.   

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-07-2024, 06:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes I do, but it needs to happen with Rankins and Stone at the very least who contribute nothing positive to the team while getting paid big money.

For sure

They have to, HAVE TO, be movers and shakers this off season or the Joe Burrow era is going to start slipping away.

There's zero reason to wait. Cut them and eat the loss and get some decent players in here.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-08-2024, 07:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: For sure

They have to, HAVE TO, be movers and shakers this off season or the Joe Burrow era is going to start slipping away.

There's zero reason to wait. Cut them and eat the loss and get some decent players in here.

It only gets harder from here. Joe’s really big money hasn’t even kicked in yet, same with Chase, and ofc Tee will be gone.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-08-2024, 08:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It only gets harder from here. Joe’s really big money hasn’t even kicked in yet, same with Chase, and ofc Tee will be gone.

Hopefully Bengals aren't too attached/prideful to hesitate moving on from Stone and Rankins.
They were brand new this past offseason and have done nothing to make any section of the fanbase to want to keep them.

I don't expect them to cut Cappa since he's been a starter with Bengals since 2022.
But Bengals did part ways with Mixon after so many years, so maybe they won't be as hesitant with someone like Cappa as I think.


I doubt they would cut Pratt either, but he would free up $5.6 mill this offseason if they do.
Cutting Cappa would free up $8 mill.

Do Bengals really need Zack Moss next year?
He frees up nearly $3.5 mill with only $1.5 mill of dead cap.
To me, Moss filled the uncertainty gap while we waiting to see what Brown could really do.
Brown has emerged as RB1 going into next season, plus they could re-sign Herbert.
Maybe move on from Moss and use (some of) that money to put toward Herbert instead.
Or cut Moss, let Herbert walk, and draft a RB to pair with Brown.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-08-2024, 07:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: For sure

They have to, HAVE TO, be movers and shakers this off season or the Joe Burrow era is going to start slipping away.

There's zero reason to wait. Cut them and eat the loss and get some decent players in here.

No doubt brother. Need to make some damn good moves this Offseason to shore up this team for Joe.

Cutting Stone and Rankins frees up a lot of dough and they bring nothing to the team it seems, so upgrades are almost a given at 
these positions. There will be a Free Agent Guard that can be better than Volson no problem pretty sure as well.

(12-08-2024, 08:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It only gets harder from here. Joe’s really big money hasn’t even kicked in yet, same with Chase, and ofc Tee will be gone.

Yeah, Tee will be gone. Hopefully we see something from Burton to make us feel better about it. Iosivas isn't the answer but he did
make a beautiful hands catch on the sideline against them stealers and took a brutal hit while doing it. Shown he is coming around
but I wouldn't count on him either. Might have to draft a WR in the first like Higgins out of Iowa State to replace Higgins.

(12-09-2024, 11:27 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Hopefully Bengals aren't too attached/prideful to hesitate moving on from Stone and Rankins.
They were brand new this past offseason and have done nothing to make any section of the fanbase to want to keep them.

I don't expect them to cut Cappa since he's been a starter with Bengals since 2022.
But Bengals did part ways with Mixon after so many years, so maybe they won't be as hesitant with someone like Cappa as I think.


I doubt they would cut Pratt either, but he would free up $5.6 mill this offseason if they do.
Cutting Cappa would free up $8 mill.

Do Bengals really need Zack Moss next year?
He frees up nearly $3.5 mill with only $1.5 mill of dead cap.
To me, Moss filled the uncertainty gap while we waiting to see what Brown could really do.
Brown has emerged as RB1 going into next season, plus they could re-sign Herbert.
Maybe move on from Moss and use (some of) that money to put toward Herbert instead.
Or cut Moss, let Herbert walk, and draft a RB to pair with Brown.

Cam Skattebo that RB out of Arizona State is really impressive and I also liked what I saw from that Washington RB you turned me 
onto. Both are bowling ball, pounding RB's that would bring us some physicality in the running game. I like Herbert, I would keep him 
and move on from Moss myself.