Kiper's Dec. 5 big board heavy at DT

[Luvnit2]

I know we drafted 2 DTs in 2024, but if Kiper is correct, he has 4 DT's in top 17 right now. One is 6'5 and 310 lbs. and also plays DE.

14. Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon*
Height: 6-5 | Weight: 310 | Prev. rank: 16

2024 stats through 12 games: 44 tackles, 8 tackles for loss, 4 sacks, 30 pressures, 10 run stops, 2 forced fumbles

Harmon transferred from Michigan State after a solid 2023 season there, and his game has taken the next step in Eugene. What jumps out to me most is his consistent disruptiveness on a game-to-game basis. He combines quickness with power to cause chaos for opponents. And his scheme-versatility only adds to his value; Harmon can dominate at either defensive tackle or end.

I can see us drafting in top 15, I know we have major needs on defense, but is a dominant DT of great need over a CB or DE?

[SunsetBengal]

There's no such thing as having too many good IDL. If that's the way the board falls and he's sitting there, they should absolutely take him.

[*ochocincos*]

BDPA except maybe CB.
Bengals have invested plenty into CB past couple drafts and maybe try to get a vet CB to help out rather than invest a 1st rounder on one.
DL or FS.

[*bfine32*]

Jordan Burch is another DL from Oregon and a fine fav. He's currently carrying a 3rd RD grade, that will change during the pre-draft process. Be great to get him in the 3rd to replace Sam, but je's going to cost a 2nd and depending on how high we draft I may not like it.

The player in the OP would bfine, but I see to much Jenkin Jr in him

[*Synric*]

Derrick Harmon has an explosive first step and solid toolbox of pass rush moves to go along with his 0T to 5T range. He also plays tall so he gives up alot of leverage at the point of attack. He is also not the best lateral mover so outside zone and zone stretch rush offenses can give him trouble.

Reminds me of former Penn State DT Da'Quan Jones. Mel Kiper probably has him ranked a little to high.

[Goalpost]

Outside linebackers

1. Abdul Carter, Penn State
2. Mykel Williams, Georgia
3. James Pearce Jr., Tennessee
4. Donovan Ezeiruaku, Boston College
5. Mike Green, Marshall
6. Bradyn Swinson, LSU
7. Kyle Kennard, South Carolina
8. Antwaun Powell-Ryland, Virginia Tech
9. Princely Umanmielen, Ole Miss
10. Josaiah Stewart, Michigan

Off-ball linebackers

1. Jalon Walker, Georgia
2. Jihaad Campbell, Alabama
3. Barrett Carter, Clemson
4. Danny Stutsman, Oklahoma
5. Chris Paul Jr., Ole Miss
6. Deontae Lawson, Alabama
7. Lander Barton, Utah
8. Jay Higgins, Iowa
9. Cody Simon, Ohio State
10. Harold Perkins Jr., LSU

I'm so fed up with this defense.  If the 1st two picks got us some combo of 1 each from this list from Kiper, I'd be ok with it.

[*Synric*]

(12-06-2024, 10:46 AM)Goalpost Wrote: Outside linebackers

1. Abdul Carter, Penn State
2. Mykel Williams, Georgia
3. James Pearce Jr., Tennessee
4. Donovan Ezeiruaku, Boston College
5. Mike Green, Marshall
6. Bradyn Swinson, LSU
7. Kyle Kennard, South Carolina
8. Antwaun Powell-Ryland, Virginia Tech
9. Princely Umanmielen, Ole Miss
10. Josaiah Stewart, Michigan

Off-ball linebackers

1. Jalon Walker, Georgia
2. Jihaad Campbell, Alabama
3. Barrett Carter, Clemson
4. Danny Stutsman, Oklahoma
5. Chris Paul Jr., Ole Miss
6. Deontae Lawson, Alabama
7. Lander Barton, Utah
8. Jay Higgins, Iowa
9. Cody Simon, Ohio State
10. Harold Perkins Jr., LSU

I'm so fed up with this defense.  If the 1st two picks got us some combo of 1 each from this list from Kiper, I'd be ok with it.

Jalon Walker is a dude but where does he play? He's never going to be a full time edge but his pass rush is why you would draft him. He's a guy that needs a specific plan and fit in a defense. 

[kalibengal]

(12-06-2024, 10:46 AM)Goalpost Wrote: Outside linebackers

1. Abdul Carter, Penn State
2. Mykel Williams, Georgia
3. James Pearce Jr., Tennessee
4. Donovan Ezeiruaku, Boston College
5. Mike Green, Marshall
6. Bradyn Swinson, LSU
7. Kyle Kennard, South Carolina
8. Antwaun Powell-Ryland, Virginia Tech
9. Princely Umanmielen, Ole Miss
10. Josaiah Stewart, Michigan

Off-ball linebackers

1. Jalon Walker, Georgia
2. Jihaad Campbell, Alabama
3. Barrett Carter, Clemson
4. Danny Stutsman, Oklahoma
5. Chris Paul Jr., Ole Miss
6. Deontae Lawson, Alabama
7. Lander Barton, Utah
8. Jay Higgins, Iowa
9. Cody Simon, Ohio State
10. Harold Perkins Jr., LSU

I'm so fed up with this defense.  If the 1st two picks got us some combo of 1 each from this list from Kiper, I'd be ok with it.

any way we can spy on how Balt, KC, Detroit, LA R or Pitt has these guys ranked?...we all know Tobin will pick he guy that is  turd

[Goalpost]

(12-06-2024, 10:51 AM)Synric Wrote: Jalon Walker is a dude but where does he play? He's never going to be a full time edge but his pass rush is why you would draft him. He's a guy that needs a specific plan and fit in a defense. 

We do need pass rush.  I'm not opposed to a more athletic linebacker.  One person's scout on him....


Jalon Walker projects best into a multiple-front scheme that tasks their linebackers with a vast menu of responsibilities. This is a three-down player with unique value on early downs as a stack defender and on passing downs as a pass rush weapon — similar to the likes of Zach Baun and Andrew Van Ginkel. 
This is not the kind of player that would fit well in vanilla schemes or in a singular role, so creative play callers or defensive depth charts with a number of versatile defensive talents to create overlap and confusion will go a long way in unlocking the best version of him. 


 

[Whatever]

(12-06-2024, 10:51 AM)Synric Wrote: Jalon Walker is a dude but where does he play? He's never going to be a full time edge but his pass rush is why you would draft him. He's a guy that needs a specific plan and fit in a defense. 

Being fair, folks said the same about Micah Parsons, Von Miller, and Clay Matthews.

[Whatever]

(12-05-2024, 09:09 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I know we drafted 2 DTs in 2024, but if Kiper is correct, he has 4 DT's in top 17 right now. One is 6'5 and 310 lbs. and also plays DE.

14. Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon*
Height: 6-5 | Weight: 310 | Prev. rank: 16

2024 stats through 12 games: 44 tackles, 8 tackles for loss, 4 sacks, 30 pressures, 10 run stops, 2 forced fumbles

Harmon transferred from Michigan State after a solid 2023 season there, and his game has taken the next step in Eugene. What jumps out to me most is his consistent disruptiveness on a game-to-game basis. He combines quickness with power to cause chaos for opponents. And his scheme-versatility only adds to his value; Harmon can dominate at either defensive tackle or end.

I can see us drafting in top 15, I know we have major needs on defense, but is a dominant DT of great need over a CB or DE?

A couple of dudes I've been looking at are Michigan's Kenneth Grant and Kentucky 's Drone Walker.  Both have 2-Gap NT size with pass rushing 3 tech athletic ability.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-06-2024, 10:46 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I'm so fed up with this defense.  If the 1st two picks got us some combo of 1 each from this list from Kiper, I'd be ok with it.

With that lack of creativity of the pass rush, I don't think any pass rushers are going to do well aside from the elite ones like Hendrickson.

[pulses]

(12-06-2024, 10:51 AM)Synric Wrote: Jalon Walker is a dude but where does he play? He's never going to be a full time edge but his pass rush is why you would draft him. He's a guy that needs a specific plan and fit in a defense. 

Walker is a steelers type player sadly.

[Luvnit2]

(12-06-2024, 10:51 AM)Synric Wrote: Jalon Walker is a dude but where does he play? He's never going to be a full time edge but his pass rush is why you would draft him. He's a guy that needs a specific plan and fit in a defense. 

The Ravens gutted their offense to adapt for Lamar. Maybe Bengals should do the same with their defense, switch to a 3-4 defense so we can add the studs like Watt who are capable of DE or LB play on the outside.

Maybe Walker is the guy we build a defense around.

[*Synric*]

(12-06-2024, 07:02 PM)Whatever Wrote: Being fair, folks said the same about Micah Parsons, Von Miller, and Clay Matthews.

Different type of player. The best comps I've heard for him is Andrew Van Ginkle and Jamie Collins. On the Bengals defense he would replace Pratt who plays alot more 34 OLB than people think.

[*Synric*]

(12-06-2024, 09:00 PM)pulses Wrote: Walker is a steelers type player sadly.

I was thinking Ravens replacing Kyle van Noy.

(12-07-2024, 06:25 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The Ravens gutted their offense to adapt for Lamar. Maybe Bengals should do the same with their defense, switch to a 3-4 defense so we can add the studs like Watt who are capable of DE or LB play on the outside.

Maybe Walker is the guy we build a defense around.

The Bengals are already a 3-4 defense. 

[puddycat]

(12-07-2024, 07:03 PM)Synric Wrote: The Bengals are already a 3-4 defense. 

A 3-4 defense without a NT and only one rush Edge.

I really like Nolen and Harmon, but the Bengals already have versatile DT/DE types and few NT or Edge types.  We play too many running QBs to have slow LBs and DEs. (even 3rd "LBs" Hilton, Battle, and Stone are slow)

[pulses]

(12-10-2024, 04:09 PM)puddycat Wrote: A 3-4 defense without a NT and only one rush Edge.

I really like Nolen and Harmon, but the Bengals already have versatile DT/DE types and few NT or Edge types.  We play too many running QBs to have slow LBs and DEs. (even 3rd "LBs" Hilton, Battle, and Stone are slow)

Yes this defense needs SPEED and SPEED and more SPEED.

[*Synric*]

(12-10-2024, 04:09 PM)puddycat Wrote: A 3-4 defense without a NT and only one rush Edge.

I really like Nolen and Harmon, but the Bengals already have versatile DT/DE types and few NT or Edge types.  We play too many running QBs to have slow LBs and DEs. (even 3rd "LBs" Hilton, Battle, and Stone are slow)

I'm on taking the best possible defensive player regardless of position train. They need impact players on defense and none of the Defensive Tackles on the roster should stop them from taking the best player available.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-10-2024, 06:10 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm on taking the best possible defensive player regardless of position train. They need impact players on defense and none of the Defensive Tackles on the roster should stop them from taking the best player available.

And that DT pool got a little shallower today when Corleone announced that he was returning to UC for another season.