Taking on Limited Partners

[*Synric*]

(12-12-2024, 04:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:
They still have a scouting department of 4, which they could double and still be the smallest in the NFL. The average scouting department in the AFCN outside of us is like 14-17 people.

Six.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-12-2024, 04:02 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: In my humble opinion Bengals are cheap is dying each year. They spend or roll over cap dollars each year. The made Joe Burrow the highest paid QB in the NFL. The invest in renovations from practice facilities, weight rooms to locker rooms.

I could care less about 20 years aga, please explain why the 2024 Bengals are cheap.

So you DO care?

[wadirumm]

My extended family live in the Wilmington/Sabina Ohio area and when I was a kid my cousin and I would ride our bikes up to the college and watch the newly minted Cincinnati Bengals practice in that horrid, humid Ohio summer weather.

That was 1968 or so. Been a Bengals fan ever since but if this family continues to fail (poor drafing/developing, poor GM work overall, small scouting department) - Well, Cincinnati and the SW area of Ohio deserve better, and I only wish I could convince Mike and the Blackwells to learn from the winners in the NFL and emulate them. As much as I hate to admit this the Steelers do it right, somehow. Can't Mikey learn from them? Detroit has turned it around and they are fun to watch.

Come on , Mike, for the City and for the fans.

[Ell Prez]

They would only sell a small % if they actually needed to raise capital. I know that’s the narrative around here, but is it actually true. The amount of cash coming through revenue sharing is insane. I believe MB has probably managed his money well over the last 10 years. Why give up % points when you could get a loan, if needed. I don’t think they would ever sell a portion of the team to raise money, to sign players. They’d rather let the player walk. Ownership > any player including burrow.

The only way raising capital makes sense is if they could use the money to turn a higher profit. Unless they needed cash for a new stadium, but oh wait, they get the tax payers to pay for that. MB is a good businessman!

[Luvnit2]

(12-12-2024, 04:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They still have a scouting department of 4, which they could double and still be the smallest in the NFL. The average scouting department in the AFCN outside of us is like 14-17 people.

Could you provide the link showing 14 to 17 average scouting department for each NFL team. Everything I have seen is from 2020 and says 8 full time scouts on average.

We have 6 scouts, not 4. We also use BLESTO, a scouting service.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-14-2024, 12:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Could you provide the link showing 14 to 17 average scouting department for each NFL team. Everything I have seen is from 2020 and says 8 full time scouts on average.

We have 6 scouts, not 4. We also use BLESTO, a scouting service.

If you look at the FO page of each team.

Steelers have 17 people with the word "Scout" in their title
Ravens have 11
Browns have 26

Bengals have 4:
College Scouting Director, Mike Potts
Pro Scouting Director, Steven Radicevic
Scout, Andrew Johnson
Scout, Christian Sarkisian


If it's a scouting "service" then either we ignore it or it's doing a poor job. Also if you're paying for information, every single other team could get that exact same information from them, which means you have no advantage but others do because they can get that information and then more from their own scouts who know their team and what their team wants/needs/prefers. The service clearly isn't helping bridge the difference in quantity and quality of scouts.

- - - - - -
Also I looked and no, we do not have 6. That was briefly for 2021 when Trey Brown was a first year scout (and was a scout only that year) and it was also counting Tobin as the 6th which is a load of BS because no other team in the NFL counts their "GM-not-GM" as one of their scouts, he has far too many actual other responsibilities that aren't scouting.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-14-2024, 02:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you look at the FO page of each team.

Steelers have 17 people with the word "Scout" in their title
Ravens have 11
Browns have 26

Bengals have 4:
College Scouting Director, Mike Potts
Pro Scouting Director, Steven Radicevic
Scout, Andrew Johnson
Scout, Christian Sarkisian


If it's a scouting "service" then either we ignore it or it's doing a poor job. Also if you're paying for information, every single other team could get that exact same information from them, which means you have no advantage but others do because they can get that information and then more from their own scouts who know their team and what their team wants/needs/prefers. The service clearly isn't helping bridge the difference in quantity and quality of scouts.

- - - - - -
Also I looked and no, we do not have 6. That was briefly for 2021 when Trey Brown was a first year scout (and was a scout only that year) and it was also counting Tobin as the 6th which is a load of BS because no other team in the NFL counts their "GM-not-GM" as one of their scouts, he has far too many actual other responsibilities that aren't scouting.

Here's a partial list i compiled from team pages. I got tired of looking after a while because it's pretty evident where this is going...
This is a list of each team and people that have the word 'scout' next to their name.

ARZ - 15
ATL - 14
BAL - 11
BUF - 11
CAR - 15
CHI - 18
CIN -  4
CLE - 26
DAL - 19
DEN - 14
DET - 23
GBP - 14
HOU - 13
IND - 16
JAC -
KAN -
LVR -
LAC -
LAR -
MIA -
MIN -
NEP -
NOS -
NYG -
NYJ -
PHI -
PIT -
SFO -
SEA -
TAM -
TEN -
WSH -

[*bfine32*]

I've taken on limited partners in the past

[SunsetBengal]

(12-14-2024, 01:34 AM)wadirumm Wrote: My extended family live in the Wilmington/Sabina Ohio area and when I was a kid my cousin and I would ride our bikes up to the college and watch the newly minted Cincinnati Bengals practice in that horrid, humid Ohio summer weather.  

That was 1968 or so. Been a Bengals fan ever since but if this family continues to fail (poor drafing/developing, poor GM work overall, small scouting department) - Well, Cincinnati and the SW area of Ohio deserve better, and I only wish I could convince Mike and the Blackwells to learn from the winners in the NFL and emulate them.  As much as I hate to admit this the Steelers do it right, somehow.  Can't Mikey learn from them?  Detroit has turned it around and they are fun to watch.  

Come on , Mike, for the City and for the fans.

Blackburns, but we know what you meant. But you're right, even Buffalo, the other small market team is thriving. It's time for them to advance from the mom and pop shop type of thinking.

[t3r3e3]

(12-14-2024, 05:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Blackburns, but we know what you meant. But you're right, even Buffalo, the other small market team is thriving. It's time for them to advance from the mom and pop shop type of thinking.

Buffalo is small market, but their owners are not. All the other old guard family-owned teams (Bears, Lions, Chiefs, Giants, Cardinals, Steelers, Ravens, Saints) stay the hell out of the front office and hire professionals to run most aspects of the organization. They count their profits and hang out in the owner’s suite. Mike and Katie/Troy/Mike Junior could learn a lot from these other organizations.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-14-2024, 07:23 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Buffalo is small market, but their owners are not.  All the other old guard family-owned teams (Bears, Lions, Chiefs, Giants, Cardinals, Steelers, Ravens, Saints) stay the hell out of the front office and hire professionals to run most aspects of the organization.  They count their profits and hang out in the owner’s suite.  Mike and Katie/Troy/Mike Junior could learn a lot from these other organizations.

Exactly, they'll increase revenue more from being a consistently winning team than they'll save by trying to continue as a "family business".

[Joelist]

I'll just say "Be careful what you wish for". Minority investors tend to demand some level of control and/or shaping of policy when they buy in. Private equity firms in particular are notorious for this. Of course if the investor demanded no control and in the bargain helped the team handle the funding rule that would be cool. But if they have outside agendas they could destroy the franchise.

[Bilbo Saggins]

It could make financial sense imo.  NFL franchises have great long term and recent history as cash cows but they are not diversified.  People who run money think in terms of risk adjusted returns.  Could we be at peak NFL popularity right this very moment?  Possibly.  Anything can happen.  Accidents on the field, a high profile player doing something outrageous to tarnish the brand, some sort of whistleblower activity like what we've seen in horse racing...you get the drift.  An influx of cash could be used to kill two birds with one stone:  1.  Improve the value of the brand.  The franchise should increase in value with proper investments.  2.  Diversify holdings.  Will the value of the Bengals franchise keep up with something like gold bullion or shares of Microsoft over the next 10 years?  25 years?  Maybe.  Or maybe not.  If you're at that level of wealth and influence it makes perfect sense to hedge your bets.  Or they could just use their collateral for a loan as another poster pointed out.  That might be more palatable for them.    

[Bengalholic]

(12-12-2024, 08:45 AM)pally Wrote: Yesterday the NFL owners approved sales of limited partnerships for the Eagles, Bills, and Dolphin.  Limited meaning 10% or less of the teams valuation in total. The Eagles raised over $600 million

Mike Brown and the Brown family own virtually 100% of the Bengals.  I believe they still have one limited partner from the original purchase of the team but his share is small

Selling a small percentage of the team could reap all sorts of benefits, including having the cash to escrow guaranteed contract money.  The team has some big capital expenditures coming up as well with the renovation of Paycor and building the permanent training facility.

The team ranks last in value according to the experts but last still means $5 billion so a 10% limited partnership is still worth $500 million of cold hard cash for the Brown family

Unfortunately I don't see Mike going that route

Yeah, they own 97%. Ed Miyawaki owns the other 3.

[xxlt]

(12-12-2024, 12:50 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: They get 300 million in revenue sharing alone each year. They are just fine. 

They are cheap AND stubborn. 

This is an interesting thread with more nuanced tales than I anticipated. In spite of all the criticism of their financial practices the Bengals have more recent playoff success than a majority of AFC teams. For better or worse that makes them less likely to change course.I think maybe Mike Brown is more of an outlaw than Al Davis, just without the persona. How often is it him and maybe one other owner against the league? Dude has stones, whatever else we say about him.Some say in his head. I say in his platinum and silk trimmed boxers.

[xxlt]

(12-15-2024, 03:17 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, they own 97%. Ed Miyawaki owns the other 3.

I want some bold fan here to commit right now to naming their next child or pet Ed Miyawaki. It is a beautiful name, rolls off the tongue,and also begs to be inserted into the Bengal Growl fight song. Ed Miyawaki - owns the team we're gonna cheer to victory ..

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-15-2024, 01:05 PM)xxlt Wrote: I think maybe Mike Brown is more of an outlaw than Al Davis, just without the persona.

I say in his platinum and silk trimmed boxers.

Bulk pack of tighty whities from Walmart.


Dude drove a 2002 Chevy Malibu and took free agents to Wendy's.

He's not a an outlaw, and he's not wearing platinum and silk trimmed boxers. He's just cheap, old, stubborn, and his recent playoff experience is about to be missing it for two straight years despite having a top-3 QB.

[ERIC1]

(12-14-2024, 01:34 AM)wadirumm Wrote: My extended family live in the Wilmington/Sabina Ohio area and when I was a kid my cousin and I would ride our bikes up to the college and watch the newly minted Cincinnati Bengals practice in that horrid, humid Ohio summer weather.  

That was 1968 or so. Been a Bengals fan ever since but if this family continues to fail (poor drafing/developing, poor GM work overall, small scouting department) - Well, Cincinnati and the SW area of Ohio deserve better, and I only wish I could convince Mike and the Blackwells to learn from the winners in the NFL and emulate them.  As much as I hate to admit this the Steelers do it right, somehow.  Can't Mikey learn from them?  Detroit has turned it around and they are fun to watch.  

Come on , Mike, for the City and for the fans.

how bout we deal with facts.. we went to the Superbowl a  couple of years ago...we then followed that up with a trip to the AFC championship game..the following year our starting quarterback was injured and out a significant number of games...yet this team played well ..and this year..starting in week one..we have had significant injuries to many players and starters..I don't make excuses for injuries...but when you consider who was injured and the vast numbers..this is why we are where we are.......Mike Brown kept football in Cincinnati...yet hopefully..and I agree with you..I think this team could use a real GM and some additional scouts...I think the Brown family wants to stay in Cincinnati and I would imagine that Mike wants to make certain that his children and grandchildren carry on ..He is almost 90 years old..With the lease negotiations starting soon..I do believe that we will see some definitive changes in the areas of concern

[ERIC1]

(12-15-2024, 01:33 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Bulk pack of tighty whities from Walmart.


Dude drove a 2002 Chevy Malibu and took free agents to Wendy's.

He's not a an outlaw, and he's not wearing platinum and silk trimmed boxers. He's just cheap, old, stubborn, and his recent playoff experience is about to be missing it for two straight years despite having a top-3 QB.

you dont think football players like Wendys

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-15-2024, 01:43 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: you dont think football players like Wendys

I think if you're trying to woo a free agent, taking them to Wendy's doesn't have as much impact as Jeff Ruby's or somewhere like that. Saving $200 on someone you're trying to recruit and pay multiple millions of dollars to always seemed foolish.