Injuries Week 17

[*pally*]

Some positive news...both Mims and Orlando Brown are expected to participate in practice today.

Zac said Tee's ankle is good.  As always with him, taking things one day at a time.  I anticpate him being limited all week s a precaution

Rankins still MIA

Joe's knee is still sore but manageble

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-24-2024, 01:44 PM)pally Wrote: Some positive news...both Mims and Orlando Brown are expected to participate in practice today.

Zac said Tee's ankle is good.  As always with him, taking things one day at a time.  I anticpate him being limited all week s a precaution

Rankins still MIA

Joe's knee is still sore but manageble

Possible 2025 Roster cuts:
Tier 1: Rocky Balboa "Cut me, Mick": Cappa, Rankins
Tier 2: If we need the money: Hubbard, Moss
Tier 3: Probably not, but let's see how the draft goes: Stone, Pratt

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Going to need Tee most likely, I saw him grab his ankle after that tackle where he should of just went down and was like oh shit,
here we go again. Nice hearing about Orlando and Amarius. Thankfully Cochran and Ford haven't been terrible and Yoshi had that
nice deep, sideline catch against Denzel Ward. If Yoshi can keep growing like this he could help when Tee is inevitably out for plays.

Thankfully we also have Gesicki and Chase Brown is a great backup checkdown valve for Joe.

[Luvnit2]

(12-24-2024, 02:06 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Possible 2025 Roster cuts:
Tier 1: Rocky Balboa "Cut me, Mick": Cappa, Rankins
Tier 2: If we need the money: Hubbard, Moss
Tier 3: Probably not, but let's see how the draft goes: Stone, Pratt

I think we have more tier one guys we need to cut.

1 - Cappa, Rankins, Hubbard and Moss
2. - Stone

Tier 1 cuts would give us over 31 million in additional cap space and a ton of cash as well which will be needed if we decide to tag or sign Tee long term. Those 4 cuts would give us 94 million in cap space. Those in my tier 4, only one is a current starter we would need to replace and spend cap and cash. The other 3 are backups or non-contributors in 2024.

Hibbard lost his starting job, and Murphy is simply better now. Cappa gets paid too well for an average OG. Rankins has not seen the field due to injury and sickness and Jenkins and McKinley appear to be ready to take next step in 2025. Chase Brown is our RB1 and Moss saves us almost 4 million in cap space if we cut him. Stone is playing better of late, but it depends on what is available in FA or if decide to go saftey in round 1 of draft (I don't think we will, but possible).

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-24-2024, 03:37 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think we have more tier one guys we need to cut.

1 - Cappa, Rankins, Hubbard and Moss
2. - Stone

Tier 1 cuts would give us over 31 million in additional cap space and a ton of cash as well which will be needed if we decide to tag or sign Tee long term. Those 4 cuts would give us 94 million in cap space. Those in my tier 4, only one is a current starter we would need to replace and spend cap and cash. The other 3 are backups or non-contributors in 2024.

Hibbard lost his starting job, and Murphy is simply better now. Cappa gets paid too well for an average OG. Rankins has not seen the field due to injury and sickness and Jenkins and McKinley appear to be ready to take next step in 2025. Chase Brown is our RB1 and Moss saves us almost 4 million in cap space if we cut him. Stone is playing better of late, but it depends on what is available in FA or if decide to go saftey in round 1 of draft (I don't think we will, but possible).

I agree with your cuts, Ossai is on the last year of his deal and as bad as the pass rushers are behind Trey, he still gets some pressure 
and should be cheap with his lack of sacks. I would bring back Ossai, give Trey his extension and bring back BJ on Defense. That is about
it though, we can upgrade easily from your cuts here. Those guys bring nothing. They just take up money and roster spots. I know Stone
has gotten some picks lately but that is all he brings, he is a bad tackler and not great in coverage either. DJ Ivey gave him his last pick.

Pratt takes such bad angles, we can do better than him as well pretty sure. He will make a play here and there and then blow another.

Fire Lou and let the new DC bring in his guys for his system though, if BJ and Ossai don't fit, move on and add players that do.

[schroomytunes]

(12-24-2024, 02:06 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Possible 2025 Roster cuts:
Tier 1: Rocky Balboa "Cut me, Mick": Cappa, Rankins
Tier 2: If we need the money: Hubbard, Moss
Tier 3: Probably not, but let's see how the draft goes: Stone, Pratt

I tend to agree with your assessment here! We simply are carrying too much dead weight on this team and the money can be utilized in other areas. For me mine are:

Tier 1: Cappa (8), Rankins (9.5), Hubbard (9.6) , Moss (3.4) =31 million These guys need to be released ASAP.

Tier 2: Pratt (5.6) only if we can land a faster younger LB in draft or FA.

Guys I want back: (UFA's)

1) Mike Hilton-slot blitzer
2) Mike Gesicki- TE
3) BJ Hill-DT
4) Khalil Herbert-#3 RB
5) Tee Higgins- WR if Joe re does his contract to free up cash
6) Cody Ford-G/T sub
7) Joe Ossai-DE backup

Outside FA's:

1) Will Fries (RG) Colts 26yrs old. solid in pass/run block.

2) Devin Bush (LB) Browns 26 yrs old. upgrade to Pratt.

3) Azeez Ojulari (Edge) Giants 25 yrs old. we need more pressure from the front 7.

4) Poona Ford (DT) Chargers 29 yrs old. solid disrupter in the interior line.

5) Trevon Moehrig (S) Raiders 25 yrs old. I think he becomes the solid disrupter in the secondary.

these FA's upgrade areas of need and are solid guys that fit our cap space with possibly resigning Tee and extending Chase. This opens up the draft to look at BPA.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-24-2024, 10:38 PM)schroomytunes Wrote: I tend to agree with your assessment here! We simply are carrying too much dead weight on this team and the money can be utilized in other areas. For me mine are:

Tier 1: Cappa (8), Rankins (9.5), Hubbard (9.6) , Moss (3.4) =31 million These guys need to be released ASAP.

Tier 2: Pratt (5.6) only if we can land a faster younger LB in draft or FA.

Guys I want back: (UFA's)

1) Mike Hilton-slot blitzer
2) Mike Gesicki- TE
3) BJ Hill-DT
4) Khalil Herbert-#3 RB
5) Tee Higgins- WR if Joe re does his contract to free up cash
6) Cody Ford-G/T sub
7) Joe Ossai-DE backup

Outside FA's:

1) Will Fries (RG) Colts 26yrs old. solid in pass/run block.

2) Devin Bush (LB) Browns 26 yrs old. upgrade to Pratt.

3) Azeez Ojulari (Edge) Giants 25 yrs old. we need more pressure from the front 7.

4) Poona Ford (DT) Chargers 29 yrs old. solid disrupter in the interior line.

5) Trevon Moehrig (S) Raiders 25 yrs old. I think he becomes the solid disrupter in the secondary.

these FA's upgrade areas of need and are solid guys that fit our cap space with possibly resigning Tee and extending Chase. This opens up the draft to look at BPA.

Good post with a lot of detail. Regarding Stone & Pratt, I am really on the fence there. We have so many other holes (WR2, DE2, 2 DTs, TE1) that I am a little hesitant to create more starter level needs to fill, even if it does create more cap space. FA's don't always work out, high draft picks limited, and FA replacements could be more expensive than the guys we cut.

My offseason list would include: 

1. Burrow restructure (+$19 mil to cap) 
2. Chase extension (-$8 mil to cap, approx) 
3. Tee signing (-$25 mil) 
4. Cutting Cappa (+$8) and Rankins (+$9.5)

Starting at $62 mil, this ends at $65 mil. The PS cost (-$4 mil) brings it down to $61 with 41 guys signed. 

In terms of our own FA's, at least the ines with significant cost involved, I'd want to retain: 

1. Higgins (already done) 
2. BJ Hill (one above average DT) 
3. Mike Hilton (best run stopping corner in league)

I hope Hill and Hilton, both 30+, would make slighly less than the do now. Say, $9 for Hill and $6 for Hilton. That's $15 mil, down to $46. 

I would not mind bringing back: 

4. Gesicki 
5. ADG 
6. Trent Brown 
7. Herbert
-----------
8. Bell
9. Ford
10. Hudson 
11. Bachie 



But all those guys below Trent Brown should be min salary types, or very close to it. ADG & Trent could be close to that line.

But I'd want to go shopping first. If I cut Hubbard & Moss, I free up $13 mil. Up to $59 mil. 

In FA, I want: 

1) One QUALITY IOL ($15-20 mil) 
2) One QUALITY pass rusher DT/DE ($10-$15 mil) OR another QUALITY IOL. Take the best quality guy we can get at any spot.  

$24-$34 mil left. 

The roster would be: 

QB (1): Burrow; Browning 
RB (1): C. Brown 
WR (6): Chase, Higgins, Iosivas; Burton, C. Jones  I. Williams
TE (3): D. Sample; All, McLachlan 
OT (3): O. Brown, Mims, Cochran
OG (3): FA IOL, Volson; Steuber
OC (2): Karras; Lee
------------------
DE (3): Hendrickson; Murphy, C. Johnson 
DT (3): BJ Hill; Jenkins, Jackson 
LB (4): L. Wilson, Pratt; Njongmeta, Heyward
CB (6): CTB, D. Hill, Hilton; Turner, Newton, Ivey
S (4): Battle, Stone; Anderson, Anthony
-----------
FA DT/DE/IOL (1): 
---------------
PK: McPherson 
P: 
LS
-----------------
Total O: 19 
Total D: 20
Total ST: 1 
FA trenches wildcard: DE/DT/IOL
------
Total Roster = 41
Fringe guys = 10: C. Jones, I. Williams, McLachlan, Cochran, Steuber; C. Johnson, Njongmeta, Heyward, Anderson, Anthony. 


Iffy starters (8): Yoshi, D. Sample, Volson; 1 DT/DE, Pratt, Battle, Stone, McPherson. 

That's a lot of work for 6 draft picks and $24-$34 mil to do. Plus Mikey will never spend to the line, so less. Say minus $7 mil, for $17-$27 mil.

Rehkow & Adomitis are restricted. Around $2 mil for them gets us to 43 players with $15-$25 left. 

Some of the fringe guys may get bumped by a draft pick, returning cheap FA (ADG, Bell, Ford, Hudson, Herbert, etc.), or a higher pick. Six picks would get us to 49 if we just add on, and probably eat about $8-$9 mil. So now down to around $7-$17 mil.

That can go to:
1) Another new GA 
2) Returning FA's (Gesicki, T. Brown,  Ford, Hudson)

Once we get past 4, the cap hit is nada if it is a min salary guy, as we are just swapping one out for another. We can bump it up by releasing Stone/Pratt, but that creates another hole. Let's bring back Ford, ADG, Hudson, and Ossai. Cost: $5 mil. At 53, $2-$12 left. 

Holes are gonna be: 
2 of G2/DE2/DT2 (starter next to Hill)
TE1: Not counting on All, Gesicki 

With possible upgrades at: FS (Stone), LB2 (Pratt), PK (McPherson) still possible. 

Let's say we nail out first 4 picks. Those picks plus that $2-$12 mil need to fill those holes. We could get a TE or PK late on Day 3, but I would not count on any Rd 5, 6, 7 guy stepping in right away. Though it is possible. 

Waiving Stone & Pratt will bump the $$ up, but also create another hole. 

Right now, we might just have enough cap space to fill one more in FA with a modest buy. Or we could use that $$ to extend Hendrickson. Or sign some depth guys. 

Hopefully, I am overestimating Tee's number, BJs number, Hilton's number, and Chase's extension cost, and we have a little more wiggle. 

For me, I'd prefer to have the IOL set going into the draft, as I think the early (Rd 1-3) DL talent is deeper than the IOL talent. And the FA IOL talent is better/deeper than the FA DL talent. Day 3 IOL depth is something I'd still look at. 

[*pally*]

Guard Jaxson Kirkland is sitting on IR with a torn pec. He was showing signs in pre season that he would be taking over at RG before the season was over if he hadn't been injiured

[*pally*]

And on the subjec of injuries

for the first time in 2 months....Orlando Brown was a full participant in practice

[Essex Johnson]

(12-24-2024, 02:06 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Possible 2025 Roster cuts:
Tier 1: Rocky Balboa "Cut me, Mick": Cappa, Rankins
Tier 2: If we need the money: Hubbard, Moss
Tier 3: Probably not, but let's see how the draft goes: Stone, Pratt

I doubt they cut Pratt, his numbers have improved each year, he is around the ball, just seems a step slow and some missed tackles, I see the bengals keeping him but focus on him  get quicker with some weight loss and strength building and improve his tackling skills

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-25-2024, 07:54 PM)pally Wrote: Guard Jaxson Kirkland is sitting on IR with a torn pec. He was showing signs in pre season that he would be taking over at RG before the season was over if he hadn't been injiured

Yeah, like you I am hopeful of Kirkland's potential. 

However  this is the 2nd year in a row he has had a major injury (I believe) and has next to zero actual NFL snaps. I am not gonna pencil him in as a solution to our IOL woes. He is OL #9 or #10. Best case. I would not even count on him to be the primary backup at any spot. 

[*pally*]

Orlando Brown Jr. looking limber at Thursday practice indoors. This practice serves as the typical Friday practice as the Bengals get ready for the Broncos on Saturday at Paycor. pic.twitter.com/GFbqInGLHt

— Mike Petraglia (@Trags) December 26, 2024

[Soonerpeace]

Ford is starting at LG

[Clark W Griswold]

(12-25-2024, 03:03 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good post with a lot of detail. Regarding Stone & Pratt, I am really on the fence there. We have so many other holes (WR2, DE2, 2 DTs, TE1) that I am a little hesitant to create more starter level needs to fill, even if it does create more cap space. FA's don't always work out, high draft picks limited, and FA replacements could be more expensive than the guys we cut.

My offseason list would include: 

1. Burrow restructure (+$19 mil to cap) 
2. Chase extension (-$8 mil to cap, approx) 
3. Tee signing (-$25 mil) 
4. Cutting Cappa (+$8) and Rankins (+$9.5)

Starting at $62 mil, this ends at $65 mil. The PS cost (-$4 mil) brings it down to $61 with 41 guys signed. 

In terms of our own FA's, at least the ines with significant cost involved, I'd want to retain: 

1. Higgins (already done) 
2. BJ Hill (one above average DT) 
3. Mike Hilton (best run stopping corner in league)

I hope Hill and Hilton, both 30+, would make slighly less than the do now. Say, $9 for Hill and $6 for Hilton. That's $15 mil, down to $46. 

I would not mind bringing back: 

4. Gesicki 
5. ADG 
6. Trent Brown 
7. Herbert
-----------
8. Bell
9. Ford
10. Hudson 
11. Bachie 



But all those guys below Trent Brown should be min salary types, or very close to it. ADG & Trent could be close to that line.

But I'd want to go shopping first. If I cut Hubbard & Moss, I free up $13 mil. Up to $59 mil. 

In FA, I want: 

1) One QUALITY IOL ($15-20 mil) 
2) One QUALITY pass rusher DT/DE ($10-$15 mil) OR another QUALITY IOL. Take the best quality guy we can get at any spot.  

$24-$34 mil left. 

The roster would be: 

QB (1): Burrow; Browning 
RB (1): C. Brown 
WR (6): Chase, Higgins, Iosivas; Burton, C. Jones  I. Williams
TE (3): D. Sample; All, McLachlan 
OT (3): O. Brown, Mims, Cochran
OG (3): FA IOL, Volson; Steuber
OC (2): Karras; Lee
------------------
DE (3): Hendrickson; Murphy, C. Johnson 
DT (3): BJ Hill; Jenkins, Jackson 
LB (4): L. Wilson, Pratt; Njongmeta, Heyward
CB (6): CTB, D. Hill, Hilton; Turner, Newton, Ivey
S (4): Battle, Stone; Anderson, Anthony
-----------
FA DT/DE/IOL (1): 
---------------
PK: McPherson 
P: 
LS
-----------------
Total O: 19 
Total D: 20
Total ST: 1 
FA trenches wildcard: DE/DT/IOL
------
Total Roster = 41
Fringe guys = 10: C. Jones, I. Williams, McLachlan, Cochran, Steuber; C. Johnson, Njongmeta, Heyward, Anderson, Anthony. 


Iffy starters (8): Yoshi, D. Sample, Volson; 1 DT/DE, Pratt, Battle, Stone, McPherson. 

That's a lot of work for 6 draft picks and $24-$34 mil to do. Plus Mikey will never spend to the line, so less. Say minus $7 mil, for $17-$27 mil.

Rehkow & Adomitis are restricted. Around $2 mil for them gets us to 43 players with $15-$25 left. 

Some of the fringe guys may get bumped by a draft pick, returning cheap FA (ADG, Bell, Ford, Hudson, Herbert, etc.), or a higher pick. Six picks would get us to 49 if we just add on, and probably eat about $8-$9 mil. So now down to around $7-$17 mil.

That can go to:
1) Another new GA 
2) Returning FA's (Gesicki, T. Brown,  Ford, Hudson)

Once we get past 4, the cap hit is nada if it is a min salary guy, as we are just swapping one out for another. We can bump it up by releasing Stone/Pratt, but that creates another hole. Let's bring back Ford, ADG, Hudson, and Ossai. Cost: $5 mil. At 53, $2-$12 left. 

Holes are gonna be: 
2 of G2/DE2/DT2 (starter next to Hill)
TE1: Not counting on All, Gesicki 

With possible upgrades at: FS (Stone), LB2 (Pratt), PK (McPherson) still possible. 

Let's say we nail out first 4 picks. Those picks plus that $2-$12 mil need to fill those holes. We could get a TE or PK late on Day 3, but I would not count on any Rd 5, 6, 7 guy stepping in right away. Though it is possible. 

Waiving Stone & Pratt will bump the $$ up, but also create another hole. 

Right now, we might just have enough cap space to fill one more in FA with a modest buy. Or we could use that $$ to extend Hendrickson. Or sign some depth guys. 

Hopefully, I am overestimating Tee's number, BJs number, Hilton's number, and Chase's extension cost, and we have a little more wiggle. 

For me, I'd prefer to have the IOL set going into the draft, as I think the early (Rd 1-3) DL talent is deeper than the IOL talent. And the FA IOL talent is better/deeper than the FA DL talent. Day 3 IOL depth is something I'd still look at. 

You have also a good ideas and projections but why would you want to bring back Trent Brown? And why would you want him over Ford?

Ford has been reliable and did an admirable job filling in at LT and taking over the starting RG job.
T Brown has been the offenses version of Sheldon Rankins…cashing checks but MIA on game day.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Great news with Orlando finally getting healthy right when we need him.

[*pally*]

Per Zac

Orlando Brown will play

Joseph Ossai and Geno Stone are questionable with illnesses but should play. Joseph has missed practice all week

Charlie Jones is questionable. Mims is qustionable (no worries he's playing) Tanner Hudson is doubtful

Rankins and Hubbard are out

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(Yesterday, 04:24 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: You have also a good ideas and projections but why would you want to bring back Trent Brown?  And why would you want him over Ford?

Ford has been reliable and did an admirable job filling in at LT and taking over the starting RG job.
T Brown has been the offenses version of Sheldon Rankins…cashing checks but MIA on game day.

It is not either/or with Ford and T. Brown for me, it is both. But I do like Brown better. 

When he is healthy, Trent Brown is a plus starter caliber player. When healthy, Cody Ford is a serviceable reserve and a poor starter. Ford has done a decent enough job this year. And has decent versatility since he can play OT/G. 

Now, Brown's injury history has been terrible lately. But I would hope that very fact would drive his price down. And his durability issues don't worry me as much as a reserve. He has experience playing both sides. Further, he is a better run blocker than Ford. So if we are talking about a 6th OL for run plays, I much prefer him to Ford as OT3/OL6 for that reason. 

PFF last 5 years: 2024 back: 
T. Brown: 65.2; 80.2; 67.4; 79.3; 68.9
Ford: 52.5, 53.9, 41.2, 46.7, 53.8

With Ford's better years at OT and worst at G.

We paid Brown $4.3 mil this year. If his price goes down under $3 mil (or likely lower), I like that value, a lot. 

Given our needs elsewhere, both in FA and the draft, I think it is extremely unlikely we spend much on a FA tackle to replace OBJ, or spend a high draft pick (or any pick) at OT. 

But if I can spend $3-$4.5 mil and lock up 2 backup OTs who can play either side, and Ford some emergency guard, I do that ($2.5 for Brown and $1.5-$2 for Ford). Devin Cochran can be PS. 

We usually carry 10 OL. We went with 9 this year to start. In my dreams: 

LT: O. Brown Jr. 
LG: FA LG/Day 2/3 pick (Jackson, Fairchild, etc)
C: Karras (C/G) 
RG: Cut Cappa: big time OG in FA
RT: Mims
--------------
OT3: T. Brown 
OG3: Volson 
C2/G4: Lee 
OT4/OG5: Ford 

If we like another late draft pick, Kirkland, Steuber, or Cochran a ton in camp, we can carry 10. But I am pretty good with that top 9. Though OBJ/Karras upgrades should start to be considered. But that can be after this offseason.

I'd really love to take OT off the board completely this off-season ASAP. And I think with just a smidge of spending we can do that. Just a touch above min salary. 

After locking up Chase/Tee, the IOL upgrades are my biggest priority. I want the O good enough to win shootouts, not lose them. Be able to run the ball in short yardage. 

[*bfine32*]

(Yesterday, 06:37 PM)pally Wrote: Per Zac

Orlando Brown will play

Joseph Ossai and Geno Stone are questionable with illnesses but should play.  Joseph has missed practice all week

Charlie Jones is questionable. Mims is qustionable (no worries he's playing) Tanner Hudson is doubtful

Rankins and Hubbard are out

I pray for Rankins. 

The fan of me wants to hate the signing, but the human in me is afraid it's something more. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(Yesterday, 08:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I pray for Rankins. 

The fan of me wants to hate the signing, but the human in me is afraid it's something more. 

I am with you. 

He's been out a long time. Mono, serious flu strain, weird COVID/Long COVID reaction, something else respitory, chronic fatigue, or maybe something worse. 

The season is 95% toast at this point. And even if we sneak in, the Chiefs/Ravens/Bills appear a level above. I just hope the dude gets better.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(Yesterday, 06:37 PM)pally Wrote: Per Zac

Orlando Brown will play

Joseph Ossai and Geno Stone are questionable with illnesses but should play.  Joseph has missed practice all week

Charlie Jones is questionable. Mims is qustionable (no worries he's playing) Tanner Hudson is doubtful

Rankins and Hubbard are out

Maybe McLachlan will catch a pass this time, was nice to see him out on a route last game.