3 things that Must change next season

[c766]

(Yesterday, 02:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Godwin had 3 straight 1k+ seasons before getting hurt this year.
Diggs has some personality problems, but had 6 straight 1k+ seasons before this year.
Keenan Allen had 1200+ yards last year before taking a significant QB talent decrease.

If you're calling Tee a #1 WR, but not those three, you're just wrong.

- - - - - -

Tagging and trading Tee isn't an option anymore. 
-We can't trade Tee until he actually signs the franchise tag (he signed the first one June 16th)
-Until we trade Tee we can't use the $26m in Free Agency (which starts March 10th)
-The NFL draft is April 24th so if Tee doesn't sign and get traded before then we can only get a 2026 draft pick which does nothing to help us this year
-It's questionable how many teams are willing to pay Tee's 2nd franchise tag of $26.1m AND give him a new contract AND give us a pick of actual value.

So by tagging Tee, we'd have $26m we couldn't use for the first 3 months of Free Agency and then we'd just get a 2026 draft pick anyway. We need to knock this FA out of the park, so can't be doing that.



You forgot the third choice, which is the only choice at this point.... just letting him walk and moving on. With that $26.1m you could sign those two WRs I mentioned before AND have $16.6m left over from the $26.1m to spend on a Guard, which is top-15 guard money. Once you add the $8m from cutting Cappa, you have up to $24.6m to sign his replacement, which is $3.6m more than any G is making so you can pay any FA G you want the money he would demand and still have two solid WRs behind Chase.

Tee for 12 games/Charlie Jones for 5 games + Alex Cappa < Trey Smith + Josh Palmer + Brandin Cooks

Godwin has never, once, been referred to as a #1 WR.  You are making that up. Also, coming off injury and will be 29 in a month

Diggs is 31 and again, former #1, coming off big surgery

Keenan allen will be 33 in two months, he is way past his prime. 

Higgins is referred to as a #1 Caliber WR often, and turns 26 in 4 days.  His next 3 years will all be his prime production years. 

They are not going to let him walk for nothing

[*ochocincos*]

(11 hours ago)TecmoBengals Wrote: So did you personally screw up drafting us Dax Hill and CTB? How are you grading yourself? 

My draft was a prediction of what they would do, but what if they saw my mock and did it....INCEPTION!!!

[*ochocincos*]

(Yesterday, 11:19 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: YUP

I feel that's the Bengals F.O. single biggest failure. They're way too willing to just "let it ride". Way to prone to hanging onto players that have obviously declined. Too eager to see if an oft injured player can be different next season? On the cheap of course

There's a long list of players that should have been let go way before they were. You can't build a team on hope.

And they seem to have this great desire to "pull a diamond out of the rough", and it's weird. Margus Hunt, and now Murphy, to name a couple. This is a big list as well.

I'd love to know who is making these calls?

We've seen that to be what seems to be a point of emphasis to try to draw talent to the organization - "We honor our contracts (for the most part)!"

They had used that argument as a reason they don't give out as much guaranteed $$ vs some other franchises, IIRC.

As for the project guys like Hunt and Murphy, about every team takes gambles on guys with high ceilings and low floors, at least if their coaching staff is confident in their abilities.

Not every player fits in well with every team's culture/scheme either.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-14-2025, 11:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I disagree with your assessment of this FA's WRs.

Tee Higgins
Chris Godwin
Stefon Diggs
Keenan Allen
Brandin Cooks
DeAndre Hopkins
Darius Slayton
Tyler Boyd (not catching "passes" from Levis and Rudolph)
Elijah Moore
Tutu Atwell
Olamide Zaccheaus
Josh Palmer
Noah Brown

And Marquise Brown, KJ Osborn, or DJ Chark might be interesting buy-low prove-it gambles.


- - - -
There's a good smattering of talent of different levels. We already have a elite true #1 WR and we already have an elite QB, so the hard parts are already done. After that we just need to fill the ranks with decent dependable talent. 

Josh Palmer is projected by Spotrac for 3yr/$12.8m and Brandin Cooks is projected for 1yr/$5.2m. Obviously on the assumption that we extended Chase, if we signed both of them or one of them plus Tyler Boyd (spotrac doesn't offer a projection for him but I would imagine something like 1yr/$2m) I would feel quite satisfied with our WR group heading into 2025 even if we didn't use a pick on WR (though we probably should still use a 4th or a 5th round pick just in case for depth).

I like what I have seen of Zaccheaus this year, gained a ton of muscle and was hard to bring down after being a pure speed guy his
prior years. I don't know how old he is though and a lot of these guys have been around a while. This is a bad FA looking at this and
makes me want to bring back Tee more lol

At least Tee is young and when he plays he makes a huge difference in a positive way for our Offense. Joe wants him back as well and
said he will help bring him back which means a restructure if Joe is being honest which he always seems to be.

Obviously I liked Cooks and Godwin but both have been around for a while, same with D-Hop and Keenan Allen. Diggs is out of the 
question with his diva ways.

[c766]

(10 hours ago)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like what I have seen of Zaccheaus this year, gained a ton of muscle and was hard to bring down after being a pure speed guy his
prior years. I don't know how old he is though and a lot of these guys have been around a while. This is a bad FA looking at this and
makes me want to bring back Tee more lol

At least Tee is young and when he plays he makes a huge difference in a positive way for our Offense. Joe wants him back as well and
said he will help bring him back which means a restructure if Joe is being honest which he always seems to be.

Obviously I liked Cooks and Godwin but both have been around for a while, same with D-Hop and Keenan Allen. Diggs is out of the 
question with his diva ways.

Hopkins has averaged 545 yards and 4.5 TDs a season over his last 5 NFL seasons.

Will be 33 next year. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11 hours ago)c766 Wrote: Godwin has never, once, been referred to as a #1 WR.  You are making that up. Also, coming off injury and will be 29 in a month

Diggs is 31 and again, former #1, coming off big surgery

Keenan allen will be 33 in two months, he is way past his prime. 

Higgins is referred to as a #1 Caliber WR often, and turns 26 in 4 days.  His next 3 years will all be his prime production years. 

They are not going to let him walk for nothing

Godwin was coming off 3 straight 1k+ seasons, 1 more than Higgins has had in his career. He's been a 2nd Team All-Pro before. The injury happened in October and there was already talk of him potentially returning in the postseason if they made a run, so he'll have plenty of time to get ready. I think you're vastly underestimating him.

Interesting how someone goes from being a #1 to a "former #1" as soon as he hits FA. Lol.. he had 6 straight 1k+ seasons before this year. He had 4 straight Pro Bowls plus a 2nd Team and a 1st Team All-Pro during the time Higgins has been in the NFL.

Keenan Allen is past his prime, but great route running ages well and he had 1,243 yards in 13 games in 2023. Every pass catcher on the Bears took a step back this year. It's because it's the Bears with a so-so rookie QB.

- - - -

There's 4 #1 WRs in this FA class. None of them are high end #1 WRs, all of them have warts, but if they were flawless high end #1 WRs then they probably wouldn't be in FA. 

(Arguably a 5th and 6th #1 WR are available with Davante Adams and Tyreek Hill both wanting to be traded, both also with warts.)

(10 hours ago)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like what I have seen of Zaccheaus this year, gained a ton of muscle and was hard to bring down after being a pure speed guy his
prior years. I don't know how old he is though and a lot of these guys have been around a while. This is a bad FA looking at this and
makes me want to bring back Tee more lol

At least Tee is young and when he plays he makes a huge difference in a positive way for our Offense. Joe wants him back as well and
said he will help bring him back which means a restructure if Joe is being honest which he always seems to be.

Obviously I liked Cooks and Godwin but both have been around for a while, same with D-Hop and Keenan Allen. Diggs is out of the 
question with his diva ways.

2025 will be Zaccheaus' age 28 season.

- - - 

"When he plays" is doing a lot of lifting there. 
55.94% of the offensive snaps played in 2024
52.67% of the offensive snaps played in 2023

Him being off the field turns Yoshi into our #2 WR and next year as it currently stands Charlie Jones will become a starter when Tee is out. You can't pay a guy $26.1m to have Charlie Jones play ~45% of the offensive snaps for him.

- - - 
The phrasing of "if Joe is being honest" kind of makes me laugh because all players are open to restructuring. It's taking their base salary they would get 1/18th of as a weekly game check starting in Sept and getting the vast majority of it as a lump sum 6-8 months in advance. It's not like he's offering to take a pay cut, he's offering to get paid $20m right now and have a higher salary cap hit later.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10 hours ago)c766 Wrote: Hopkins has averaged 545 yards and 4.5 TDs a season over his last 5 NFL seasons.

Will be 33 next year. 

Wow, that is way worse than I thought. 

Still has great hands as I saw D-Hop make some great catches this year, but yeah, he is over the hill. Not the answer.

Might be okay to bring in for depth over Chuck Fizzle.

(9 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Godwin was coming off 3 straight 1k+ seasons, 1 more than Higgins has had in his career. He's been a 2nd Team All-Pro before. The injury happened in October and there was already talk of him potentially returning in the postseason if they made a run, so he'll have plenty of time to get ready. I think you're vastly underestimating him.

Interesting how someone goes from being a #1 to a "former #1" as soon as he hits FA. Lol.. he had 6 straight 1k+ seasons before this year. He had 4 straight Pro Bowls plus a 2nd Team and a 1st Team All-Pro during the time Higgins has been in the NFL.

Keenan Allen is past his prime, but great route running ages well and he had 1,243 yards in 13 games in 2023. Every pass catcher on the Bears took a step back this year. It's because it's the Bears with a so-so rookie QB.

- - - -

There's 4 #1 WRs in this FA class. None of them are high end #1 WRs, all of them have warts, but if they were flawless high end #1 WRs then they probably wouldn't be in FA. 

(Arguably a 5th and 6th #1 WR are available with Davante Adams and Tyreek Hill both wanting to be traded, both also with warts.)


2025 will be Zaccheaus' age 28 season.

- - - 

"When he plays" is doing a lot of lifting there. 
55.94% of the offensive snaps played in 2024
52.67% of the offensive snaps played in 2023

Him being off the field turns Yoshi into our #2 WR and next year as it currently stands Charlie Jones will become a starter when Tee is out. You can't pay a guy $26.1m to have Charlie Jones play ~45% of the offensive snaps for him.

- - - 
The phrasing of "if Joe is being honest" kind of makes me laugh because all players are open to restructuring. It's taking their base salary they would get 1/18th of as a weekly game check starting in Sept and getting the vast majority of it as a lump sum 6-8 months in advance. It's not like he's offering to take a pay cut, he's offering to get paid $20m right now and have a higher salary cap hit later.

Thanks on all of this TLL. Made me think on Godwin and Keenan Allen a bit more for sure. Always liked both players a ton. Zacchaeus being 
28 is a touch old because Tee is much younger, but he still has a few more years in him and looks better than I have seen him before. Joe 
saying he wants Tee back and Tee being so young are the main reasons I want Tee back.

You are correct of course on Tee only playing a little more than half the snaps. Still, the dude is good. Yoshi has improved a ton this year, I 
could see him improving a ton more next year cause we would need it big time regardless if Tee stays or goes we need to add another WR,
especially with Charlie Jones always being injured.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10 hours ago)c766 Wrote: Hopkins has averaged 545 yards and 4.5 TDs a season over his last 5 NFL seasons.

(8 hours ago)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Wow, that is way worse than I thought. 

Still has great hands as I saw D-Hop make some great catches this year, but yeah, he is over the hill. Not the answer.

That's because it's not even close to being true.

Over the last 5 seasons he's averaged 873 yards and 6 TDs.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HopkDe00.htm
Hopkins last 5 years: 4,363 yards/29 TD

Not sure where c766 got his numbers from.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(8 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's because it's not even close to being true.

Over the last 5 seasons he's averaged 873 yards and 6 TDs.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HopkDe00.htm
Hopkins last 5 years: 4,363 yards/29 TD

Not sure where c766 got his numbers from.

Ah, thanks TLL. Always can count on you brother.

[007BengalsFan]

(11 hours ago)c766 Wrote: ...Higgins is referred to as a #1 Caliber WR often, and turns 26 in 4 days.  His next 3 years will all be his prime production years...

Tee is in his prime production years right now and you see what you get.  A WR that will make some catches but you wont be able to count on him because of injuries.

[c766]

(8 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's because it's not even close to being true.

Over the last 5 seasons he's averaged 873 yards and 6 TDs.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HopkDe00.htm
Hopkins last 5 years: 4,363 yards/29 TD

Not sure where c766 got his numbers from.

I screwed up looking on phone, combined his 2 partial seasons with TN and KC as 2 individual seasons.  My bad. 

He is still nowhere near a #1 or #2 WR

[007BengalsFan]

(5 hours ago)c766 Wrote: I screwed up looking on phone, combined his 2 partial seasons with TN and KC as 2 individual seasons.  My bad. 

He is still nowhere near a #1 or #2 WR

but yet his numbers over the last 5 seasons 4,363 yards/29 TD is very close to Tee's 4595 yards,  34 TDs.  If Hopkins is nowhere near a #1 or #2, what would Tee be with similar stats?

[c766]

(5 hours ago)007BengalsFan Wrote: but yet his numbers over the last 5 seasons 4,363 yards/29 TD is very close to Tee's 4595 yards,  34 TDs.  If Hopkins is nowhere near a #1 or #2, what would Tee be with similar stats?

His 5 year is totally skewed due to 2020's 1407 yard season, that was also Tees rookie season. 

In the last 4 years. Hopkins - current age 32 -   724 Yards per year (2896 Yards total), 23 Tds,  14 games missed

Higgins - current age 25 - last 4 years:   921 Yards per year (3687 Yards total)  28 Tds, 12 games missed 


The difference glaring, obviously. 

[007BengalsFan]

(5 hours ago)c766 Wrote: His 5 year is totally skewed due to 2020's 1407 yard season, that was also Tees rookie season. 

In the last 4 years. Hopkins - current age 32 -   724 Yards per year (2896 Yards total), 23 Tds,  14 games missed

Higgins - current age 25 - last 4 years:   921 Yards per year (3687 Yards total)  28 Tds, 12 games missed 


The difference glaring, obviously. 

Its not that much different especially if Hopkins played in a couple less games than Higgins where his stats would be a little lower.  You cant say Hopkins isnt a #1 or #2 with his stats while Tee is an obvious #1 and there is some huge difference.  Would I rather have Tee?  Yes but Cincinnati would be fine with Hopkins as the #2 if he came at a much cheaper price.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(5 hours ago)c766 Wrote: I screwed up looking on phone, combined his 2 partial seasons with TN and KC as 2 individual seasons.  My bad. 

He is still nowhere near a #1 or #2 WR

You had to of made another error on top of that. If you do just what you said, it comes out to be 591.2 yards per season, not 545 yards.

(5 hours ago)c766 Wrote: His 5 year is totally skewed due to 2020's 1407 yard season, that was also Tees rookie season. 

In the last 4 years. Hopkins - current age 32 -   724 Yards per year (2896 Yards total), 23 Tds,  14 games missed

Higgins - current age 25 - last 4 years:   921 Yards per year (3687 Yards total)  28 Tds, 12 games missed 


The difference glaring, obviously. 

Since now we're just choosing cutoffs that begin whenever a player's career low in yardage happens, the last 2 years...
Hopkins: 1,667 yards, 12 TD
Higgins: 1,567 yards, 15 TD

And that's with Hopkins' primary QB during those 2 years being Will Levis instead of Joe Burrow.

DeAndre Hopkins is absolutely a #2 WR still. Even with your...interesting... choice of cutoff, 724 yards per season IS WR #2 production. 724 yards in 2024 would put a player at 42nd among WRs league-wide.

[c766]

(3 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You had to of made another error on top of that. If you do just what you said, it comes out to be 591.2 yards per season, not 545 yards.


Since now we're just choosing cutoffs that begin whenever a player's career low in yardage happens, the last 2 years...
Hopkins: 1,667 yards, 12 TD
Higgins: 1,567 yards, 15 TD

And that's with Hopkins' primary QB during those 2 years being Will Levis instead of Joe Burrow.

DeAndre Hopkins is absolutely a #2 WR still. Even with your...interesting... choice of cutoff, 724 yards per season IS WR #2 production. 724 yards in 2024 would put a player at 42nd among WRs league-wide.

I dont really care about Deandre Hopkins, tbh.   Tee Higgins is a better player, and that is who Burrow wants on the team.  not some 33 year old who is declining in every facet of the game.  You seem obsessed with an aging vet mid level wr who plays for KC

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(2 hours ago)c766 Wrote: I dont really care about Deandre Hopkins, tbh.   Tee Higgins is a better player, and that is who Burrow wants on the team.  not some 33 year old who is declining in every facet of the game.  You seem obsessed with an aging vet mid level wr who plays for KC

You cared enough to make half a dozen replies and enough to make up fake stats.

I don't want the Bengals to sign Hopkins and nowhere in this thread did I ever I say that I did. I just pointed out that you're wrong and then you doubled down with lies and I pointed out they weren't true.

[c766]

(6 hours ago)007BengalsFan Wrote: Tee is in his prime production years right now and you see what you get.  A WR that will make some catches but you wont be able to count on him because of injuries.

So you think they should let him walk?

They were 8-4 in games he played in this year

[Bengalbug]

The Higgins dilemma is interesting for sure.

If you can get some assets for him (go get a guard and young WR in round 1-2?, with original assets and those acquired) and replace him with Davante Adams on a reasonable 2 year deal, I see a potential upgrade, even in his age 33 season.

You get similar, if not better production in 25-26, and still grooming a guy to bring in behind him.

Most of the other guys available just don’t play the physical, high point game that a davante/higgins does.