Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long

[SladeX]

He’s got it backwards Not limiting myself to D.
Needed to hold onto, in this order
Bates
Perine
Reader
Bell
Apple (and yes his antics pissed me off)

[NotBigzo]

We totes ****** up when we let Reader, Bates, Chido, and Larry stay too long.

Oh wait

[pulses]

(01-29-2025, 11:57 PM)SladeX Wrote: He’s got it backwards  Not limiting myself to D.
Needed to hold onto, in this order
Bates
Perine
Reader
Bell
Apple (and yes his antics pissed me off)

Letting Bell go was the right move. He's been shit since we let him walk. He should have never started a game this year either it should have been Battle the whole season.

[reuben.ahmed]

talk is cheap

[Millhouse]

How much of these players sticking around too long has to do with 'honoring' their contracts ie. not taking losses when cutting too soon? I know its a business and profits are the point of it all blah blah blah, but this is also the Bengals too.

[WeezyBengal]

(01-29-2025, 04:07 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: his statement really pisses me off the more I read it lol

A good reporter/inveterviewer would have pressed him on this quote. 

Something as simple as, "what do you mean by that, which players do you feel like you hung on for too long?" 

His quote makes zero sense. 

Unless he's talking about this year and how Hubbard, etc. were getting playing time over yonger guys on the team. I doubt it, though. 

[Whatever]

(Yesterday, 10:05 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: A good reporter/inveterviewer would have pressed him on this quote. 

Something as simple as, "what do you mean by that, which players do you feel like you hung on for too long?" 

His quote makes zero sense. 

Unless he's talking about this year and how Hubbard, etc. were getting playing time over yonger guys on the team. I doubt it, though. 

He could mean simply that the team didn't move quickly enough to draft/develop replacements for guys that left or declined with age.

Bates was arguably held onto too long.  They could have used the FT money they spent on him to get a big core piece or a couple of decent starters on multi-year deals instead of hanging on to him for one more year.

Reader, I think you could possibly say the same there because of another nasty quad tear his final year here.  Good player when healthy, but a lot of time spent hurt or less than 100%.  

[NotBigzo]

The entire interview just pisses me off.

He said he still have faith in Myles Murphy and implied he didn't get enough snaps to fully develop his game.

When asked about Trey and Tee and replied with "we can't pay to get top performers at every position". No one is asking you to do that. You're being asked to retain the best 3-4 players on the roster after you speant multiple offseason letting our better contributors walk.

Setting the tone for "going young", which is a euphemism for going cheap, let's be honest; and hoping things get better.

[jj22]

This quote actually makes no sense (they let go of the core superbowl defense. don't forget Ogunjobi), and completely misses the issue (poor drafting on defense). Not building confidence they actually know how to right the ship.

[WeezyBengal]

(Yesterday, 11:28 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: The entire interview just pisses me off.

He said he still have faith in Myles Murphy and implied he didn't get enough snaps to fully develop his game.

When asked about Trey and Tee and replied with "we can't pay to get top performers at every position". No one is asking you to do that. You're being asked to retain the best 3-4 players on the roster after you speant multiple offseason letting our better contributors walk.

Setting the tone for "going young", which is a euphemism for going cheap, let's be honest; and hoping things get better.

It's not his job to sign guys. That falls on Katie and Troy Blackburn. 

Duke is responsible for identifying and drafting talent/free agents. He has his say in roster building, but at the end of the day its up to Katie and Troy to get deals done...which they have failed miserably at lately. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-29-2025, 03:51 PM)lone bengal Wrote: The major issue was  Tobin’s  young draft picks didn’t step up Murphy , Zac Carter , Cam Britt-Taylor , DJ Turner, Battle, Volson.  Stone and Rankins were new high priced additions and both disasters. He lets a stud in his prime like Bates walk and replaces Reader with Rankins and he says he held on to some guys too long ? Maybe losing the guys you let walk is the bigger issue and your crappy drafts.

Huh?

1. Murphy hasn't developed like we want, but it's not like he's on year 5 languishing: jury's still out.
2. Cam is fine. He had a Jekyl-Hyde year this year, but he's fine going forward and look forward to see him with a new staff.
3. Turner had a good first half of rookie year, bad 2nd half and was more than good this year until he got hurt.
4. Battle's been great since day 1.

The rest you mentioned haven't been good, but you're being highly unfair to guys in their rookie and 2nd years. All of the guys mentioned (that were on the team, on D) improved immensely after the Stooler game, thus we know they have the capability to be better, coaching just let them down early in the year (even Stone improved quite a bit, reading plays and coverages and not looking flatfooted).

It's ok to say guys weren't performing, but the names you've chosen really aren't correct.

[Frank Booth]

(Yesterday, 12:37 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Huh?

1. Murphy hasn't developed like we want, but it's not like he's on year 5 languishing: jury's still out.

the jury is still out, correct.

But after 2 seasons, it's not looking good

[coachmcneil71]

(Yesterday, 12:37 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Huh?

1. Murphy hasn't developed like we want, but it's not like he's on year 5 languishing: jury's still out.
2. Cam is fine. He had a Jekyl-Hyde year this year, but he's fine going forward and look forward to see him with a new staff.
3. Turner had a good first half of rookie year, bad 2nd half and was more than good this year until he got hurt.
4. Battle's been great since day 1.

The rest you mentioned haven't been good, but you're being highly unfair to guys in their rookie and 2nd years. All of the guys mentioned (that were on the team, on D) improved immensely after the Stooler game, thus we know they have the capability to be better, coaching just let them down early in the year (even Stone improved quite a bit, reading plays and coverages and not looking flatfooted).

It's ok to say guys weren't performing, but the names you've chosen really aren't correct.

I'm not coming at you, but no way that I can agree with this. 

Murphy is looking like a huge bust! He's a top 20 pick, Truck. He may as well be John Ross 2.0 at this point. Hell, even Ross caught a pass and scored a tud once every blue moon. About the equivalent what we're getting from Murphy defensively thus far. I'm calling him a bust.

The jury is still out on those two CBs. CTB has played well at times. Turner has looked more meh. The CB that nobody has mentioned is Ivey. He has looked at least as good as Turner in their short careers thus far, and he's a late rd pick.

As much as I like Battle in the run game, he is a liability in the passing game thus far. I know he's still young and the Vonn Bell signing probably set him back some. Wtbs, I need to see a huge leap from him this year before I anoint him a solid starter. 

We'll find out this coming season. New DC and staff gives everyone a fresh start and clean slate. Let's hope that all of the dudes mentioned make the jump this coming season and play like they are capable. 

[*pally*]

This is the complete interview with Duke

these are a couple of blurbs...there is more in the article

Quote:The thing that we're going to have to evaluate going into next year is who is going to play up to that and who isn't. And we're going to have to make changes there, and there's going to have to be an influx of young players, and we're going to have to reevaluate where the money is being spent, and how much is being spent on each position. And so that is the thing that we are going to do this offseason (is ask) is that money going where it needs to go?

Quote:The style in which you played games last year … what needs to be fixed?
We'll retool. There are elements of our team that we have to get better at. You know, we have to play better defense. We have to run the ball a little better, you know. But that goes hand in hand with playing defense. If you believe that you're going to hold the team, then you're a little more flexible to do some things differently on offense, you know, I know for a fact, Joe felt very pressed to play in the way that he played, to try to keep us ahead in these games. And so, we have to get better there. It's not an indictment on anybody you know more than me. It's not a pay problem. It's a decision to stay with guys you know that have been with us through really good times. It probably won't be that way this year, and we'll have to make those decisions as we go forward, and we're going to have to have additions there.

Quote: How do you get more production out of Myles Murphy?

Tobin: Still believe in Myles. I think as he got a little more play time, when we got into later parts of the year, I think he started to show some things. I think at that position, it's a little bit like a running back, you got to get into a groove. And I think he started to feel a little bit of a groove there. We've got to get him to finish, you know, in just the pass rush game, finish at the top of the rush. And maybe some new voices there will help that, but that's been the biggest hold back with him, is at the top of the rush, go ahead and finish. There's a finish at the end of the rush that he needs to really work on and focus on, and I don't see anything holding him back from doing that. And I've got big hopes for Myles.

Quote:How do you get better guard play?
The way that we play, it requires a firm pocket and we've hired a new offensive line coach. We believe in him. He's really an impressive guy when you get to know him, we're hopeful that there can be some improvements made technique wise with him. We're going to add to the position. For sure there will be competition at those positions, we have to evaluate who will come back and who will not come back. It's a spot that we're focused on. We're going to continue working with guys that we have on the roster, and we are going to try to evaluate how to get better with guys that aren't currently on the roster, and whether that's young guys from the draft, whether that's free agents, we'll look at all options, but we're going to add to that group. We're definitely going to add to that group.

this is as blunt as I've ever heard Duke speak about a player

Quote:What has Jermaine Burton done to deserve a spot on the roster

He's done nothing, and he's going to have to start doing something quickly. We knew we were taking a risk. We felt comfortable that we could help him through some of the challenges he's had in the past, and we're going to continue to try to help him. But this is professional football, and you have to take accountability, and you have to be accountable to your teammates, your coaches, and the team that you're playing for, and he has to figure that out. He's got to figure that out fast. He's a very talented player, and we knew that there were risks in taking him. We knew there were rewards in taking him. We know what both of those are. We're hoping for the rewards. We're giving him the resources he needs to get to those rewards, but at the end of the day, you can't want it more for somebody than they want it for themselves. And we're hoping that Jermaine figures that out.

[Stewy]

^^^
I like the sound of all that, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[masonbengals fan]

That's about as specific as we will get.

[puddycat]

Good teams are built around youth and long-term contracts.  Good teams get raided for players that are available.  That's why you can't build a team around short-term veterans.  Sure the Rams won the SuperBowl, but was that team built on OBJ and Ramsey or Stafford, Donald, Whitworth, and Kupp?

[Soonerpeace]

(01-29-2025, 11:57 PM)SladeX Wrote: He’s got it backwards Not limiting myself to D.
Needed to hold onto, in this order
Bates
Perine
Reader
Bell
Apple (and yes his antics pissed me off)

Just was getting ready to post this

[lone bengal]

(Yesterday, 12:37 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Huh?

1. Murphy hasn't developed like we want, but it's not like he's on year 5 languishing: jury's still out.
2. Cam is fine. He had a Jekyl-Hyde year this year, but he's fine going forward and look forward to see him with a new staff.
3. Turner had a good first half of rookie year, bad 2nd half and was more than good this year until he got hurt.
4. Battle's been great since day 1.

The rest you mentioned haven't been good, but you're being highly unfair to guys in their rookie and 2nd years. All of the guys mentioned (that were on the team, on D) improved immensely after the Stooler game, thus we know they have the capability to be better, coaching just let them down early in the year (even Stone improved quite a bit, reading plays and coverages and not looking flatfooted).

It's ok to say guys weren't performing, but the names you've chosen really aren't correct.

1. A first round pick in year two who did absolutely nothing should be very concerning ,that and he played opposite the nfl sack leader.
2. We have no idea if he'll be fine he was the worst CB in football I do believe a new DC could help tho seems like he’s a man to man CB.
3. Agree with Turner’s rookie year but he wasn’t good in year 2. He had two nice pass breakups in the Chargers game so that’s how we remember him and spin it into hurt just when he was acceding.
4. Have you seen Jordan Battle in pass coverage ?
5. Geno Stone can’t tackle to save his life and takes awful angles. It’s basic football no matter what system you’re in. Dead cat bounce at the end picked off Will Levis and Cooper Rush . When he finally played a good Qb in a Nix in week 17 him and Battle got beat deep for a huge td.
6. We had the worst D in the league and every player I mention is apparently good something isn’t adding up. Players are on 4 year deals we can’t have them going into year 3 not producing you need them playing good on rookie deals. Then if there’s a 1st rd. pick and they get hurt in year 3 like Dax Hill your in a tough position to pick up there 5th year option. Look at all the teams still standing multiple rookies having early success.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-29-2025, 07:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Now we understand why Duke isn't allowed to speak in press conferences very often...

I guess so. None if this makes much sense as has been pointed out. 

The problem with this team was more letting players go, not holding onto them too long. That and coaching of course.