Walter Nolen vs Kenneth Grant - PFF grade comparison

[*ochocincos*]

(02-20-2025, 05:00 PM)Whatever Wrote: Trading down will be tough simply because of the lack of "true" first round talent.  There are really only a dozen guys in this class with real 1st round grades, then a bunch of second round types that will move into the 1st just because of lack of quality talent ahead of them.  Teams aren't likely to want to trade up if they can get a similarly graded player at their pick.

Then if they can't trade down appropriately, identify a player at another position which also may be somewhat of a need, even if it's for an impending FA next year.
Bengals have CTB, Dax Hill, Geno Stone, Germaine Pratt, Trey Hendrickson, Sam Hubbard, Ted Karras, Alex Cappa, and Cordell Volson all entering contract years.
Plenty of other positions to address if there isn't a good talent in Rd 1 to address for DT.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-20-2025, 05:00 PM)Whatever Wrote: Trading down will be tough simply because of the lack of "true" first round talent.  There are really only a dozen guys in this class with real 1st round grades, then a bunch of second round types that will move into the 1st just because of lack of quality talent ahead of them.  Teams aren't likely to want to trade up if they can get a similarly graded player at their pick.

Good point. If no team wants to trade up then we will just have to go BPA, we have quite a few holes. Hopefully a lot less after FA, but there 
should be other positions other than DT we could add a talent for the future.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-20-2025, 05:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Then if they can't trade down appropriately, identify a player at another position which also may be somewhat of a need, even if it's for an impending FA next year.
Bengals have CTB, Dax Hill, Geno Stone, Germaine Pratt, Trey Hendrickson, Sam Hubbard, Ted Karras, Alex Cappa, and Cordell Volson all entering contract years.
Plenty of other positions to address if there isn't a good talent in Rd 1 to address for DT.

Nice post, beat me to it Ocho lol

[t3r3e3]

(02-18-2025, 04:25 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You are assuming we pass signing a FA DT like Williams or others. I think we sign one FA and then draft one DT.

Williams played with studs and wants to get paid. I wouldn’t pay him; build DT through the draft…

[*psychdoctor*]

I don't have links but there are whispers that Nolen has significant character issues. Whispers are louder and there are more significant concerns for the talented Edge player in James Pearce.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 02:45 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I don't have links but there are whispers that Nolen has significant character issues.  Whispers are louder and there are more significant concerns for the talented Edge player in James Pearce.

Dang, I like both these players on the field too.

What kind of character issues?

[puddycat]

Nolen's fall seems to coincide with a rise for Grant. With 12 or 13 players with first round grades plus a couple of QBs going ahead of our pick, the temptation to pick Donovan Jackson in round 1 is very strong in my head.

[Nepa]

(02-19-2025, 09:17 AM)Whatever Wrote: Credit goes to Synric for finding this first.

https://atozsports.com/nfl-draft/2025-nfl-draft-notebook-walter-nolen-shavon-revel-princely-umanmielen-tetairoa-mcmillan/#google_vignette

Yeah, that's concerning:

"Yes, it’s possible that he goes in the first round. It will all depend on how his interviews go during the process. There has never been any questions about his talent. There’s a reason that Nolen was a former five-star recruit.

The major questions surrounding him are effort and character. According to multiple sources, the latter is especially concerning. There are multiple NFL teams that have already taken Nolen off of their board. He is not consistently enough of a disruptive player to have as many concerns as he does. I’m out."

[*psychdoctor*]

(Yesterday, 02:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dang, I like both these players on the field too.

What kind of character issues?

If you Google character concerns for Pearce 
You will find some on Twitter 

[Hammerstripes]

(02-20-2025, 01:55 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think Bengals only trade back if they have a 1st round grade on more than 1 guy who has yet to be drafted. For example, if we trade back from 17 to 20, then we need 4 guys with a first round grade. I don;t think the pidegeon hole themselves at a certian position group in round one, they are looking at BPA and if that is team's # 1 position of need, then great, if not, they grab the BPA anyway.

I don't think a team trades down 3 or 4 spots hoping the top guy on their board falls to them.

There aren't more than 10 guys in this draft with a first round grade.  That's why it always gets crazy when the consensus top tier guys are gone.  Most drafts have around 15 first round grades and then a pretty large chunk of 2nd round grades.  I'd actually be shocked if there were more than 10 guys with true first round grades in this draft.

[*Synric*]

(Yesterday, 04:41 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: There aren't more than 10 guys in this draft with a first round grade.  That's why it always gets crazy when the consensus top tier guys are gone.  Most drafts have around 15 first round grades and then a pretty large chunk of 2nd round grades.  I'd actually be shocked if there were more than 10 guys with true first round grades in this draft.

I have 10 (11 with Campbell as an IOL projection) total guys with a true first round grade.

Abdul Carter
Travis Hunter
Mason Graham
Ashton Jeanty
Tyler Warren
Tetairoa McMillian
Will Johnson
Mike Green
Tyler Booker

Cam Ward (I'm higher on Ward than most).
Will Campbell (IOL first round projection)



Edit: As for the two players in the post Kenneth Grant and Walter Nolen I have high 2nd round grades on them both. If anyone care lol.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 04:41 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: There aren't more than 10 guys in this draft with a first round grade.  That's why it always gets crazy when the consensus top tier guys are gone.  Most drafts have around 15 first round grades and then a pretty large chunk of 2nd round grades.  I'd actually be shocked if there were more than 10 guys with true first round grades in this draft.

I understand lots of click bate for the so called experts. I was referring to the Bengals board. As for lack of 1st round 100% true 1st round picks, I agree with the 10 to 12 number. That is why I hope we trade back. We can pick up a second round pick and target our guy. But if Bengals feel their true number 1 is available, they will draft them.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 05:08 PM)Synric Wrote: I have 10 (11 with Campbell as an IOL projection) total guys with a true first round grade.

Abdul Carter
Travis Hunter
Mason Graham
Ashton Jeanty
Tyler Warren
Tetairoa McMillian
Will Johnson
Mike Green
Tyler Booker

Cam Ward (I'm higher on Ward than most).
Will Campbell (IOL first round projection)



Edit: As for the two players in the post Kenneth Grant and Walter Nolen I have high 2nd round grades on them both. If anyone care lol.

Why not Will Campbell? Also, McMillian is widely considered best WR in the draft (I like the kid from Ohio State better for us if we keep Tee), but is he really top 10 or 11? I am not saying he is not drafted top 10 or 11, I am saying is he better than Harrison or Thomas or Nabers from 2024 draft? I may be wrong,but in y opinion all 3 are better and McMillian will not have a huge year 1 impact.

I see you also don't have the LB's/Edge from Georgia. Where do see them falling?

[*Synric*]

(Today, 02:27 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why not Will Campbell? Also, McMillian is widely considered best WR in the draft (I like the kid from Ohio State better for us if we keep Tee), but is he really top 10 or 11? I am not saying he is not drafted top 10 or 11, I am saying is he better than Harrison or Thomas or Nabers from 2024 draft? I may be wrong,but in y opinion all 3 are better and McMillian will not have a huge year 1 impact.

I see you also don't have the LB's/Edge from Georgia. Where do see them falling?

1. If you grade Will Campbell as an Offensive Tackle he would be a second round guy. The lack of length without being an elite athlete shows up. If you grade Campbell's skill set as a Guard the vision/awareness, grip strength, football IQ, technique project as a pro-bowl caliber player. I see some people talking about a move to Center possibly if he can play low enough that's a good spot as well.

2. I have Tetairoa McMillian as a top 20 graded guy think somewhere between Tee Higgins and AJ Green. Green and Higgins both had more releases because they seen more press in college but McMillian has the Green body control at the catch point that Tee doesn't. QB play is important for guys like McMillian because he doesn't create the separation so ball placement big. 

3. Jalon Walker is a very role specific and really so so at both things he's projected to do well. As a stack linebacker he's a 1 gap downhill only player and as a pass rusher he is a much better blitzer than edge rusher. Combine that with the elite traits he reminds me of Devin White. 

[Luvnit2]

(9 hours ago)Synric Wrote: 1. If you grade Will Campbell as an Offensive Tackle he would be a second round guy. The lack of length without being an elite athlete shows up. If you grade Campbell's skill set as a Guard the vision/awareness, grip strength, football IQ, technique project as a pro-bowl caliber player. I see some people talking about a move to Center possibly if he can play low enough that's a good spot as well.

2. I have Tetairoa McMillian as a top 20 graded guy think somewhere between Tee Higgins and AJ Green. Green and Higgins both had more releases because they seen more press in college but McMillian has the Green body control at the catch point that Tee doesn't. QB play is important for guys like McMillian because he doesn't create the separation so ball placement big. 

3. Jalon Walker is a very role specific and really so so at both things he's projected to do well. As a stack linebacker he's a 1 gap downhill only player and as a pass rusher he is a much better blitzer than edge rusher. Combine that with the elite traits he reminds me of Devin White. 

TY

I thought Campbell of Bama was more of a Devon White LB.

What about Williams? Many have him ranked in the top 15. Would he fit in the new Golden scheme? I ask as I am doing a ton of mocks on 3 different sites and seems to be available at 17 around 50% of the time.

A guy I love Tyler Warren is only available about 20% of the time. 

I know these prospects will change in abot 10 days after the combine.

[Whatever]

(Today, 02:27 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why not Will Campbell? Also, McMillian is widely considered best WR in the draft (I like the kid from Ohio State better for us if we keep Tee), but is he really top 10 or 11? I am not saying he is not drafted top 10 or 11, I am saying is he better than Harrison or Thomas or Nabers from 2024 draft? I may be wrong,but in y opinion all 3 are better and McMillian will not have a huge year 1 impact.

I see you also don't have the LB's/Edge from Georgia. Where do see them falling?

Harrison, Nabers, and Thomas were better prospects than McMillan, IMO.  But McMillan is still a 1st round talent.  There's just a death of those types of talents in this class.   

Another example is Donovan Jackson is my IOL1 in this class, but he'd be behind Barton, Frazier,and JPJ last year.  

[NATI BENGALS]

I’ve seen Derrick Harmon compared to Cam Hayward a couple times.

Adding a Cam Hayward to our DL would be a home run.

[SunsetBengal]

(2 hours ago)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I’ve seen Derrick Harmon compared to Cam Hayward a couple times.

Adding a Cam Hayward to our DL would be a home run.

Where would you play him on an even front? Cam Heyward plays DE in Pittsburgh's odd front.