Do We Need Guards As Much As I'm Thinking?

[Joelist]

I’m thinking they may well trade back to get more picks and double down on Guard.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-16-2025, 05:26 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Risner, Scherff, and Hernandez are my hopes in free agency but I'm just scared that we risk missing all of them if we wait. I agree in definitely drafting one early.

Not kowning their plans is part of the fun but, as a Bengals fan, it's also the scariest lol.

Hernandez is coming off an ACL tear so he might not be able to even practice until the season starts.

But yeah, Risner and Scherff should be on our minds for sure after the Draft whether we draft a Guard or not.

We need the insurance in case the rookie and others are not ready.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-16-2025, 06:49 PM)Joelist Wrote: I’m thinking they may well trade back to get more picks and double down on Guard.

Maybe after the first we could, been hearing that no team wants to trade up in the first round. Have to have a trade partner.

[BFritz21]

(04-16-2025, 05:32 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I would have the agents of these 3 on speed dial if we don't draft at least one guard capable of starting week 1.

Or could we find a trade partner for Pratt for a guard.

I'm still having them on speed dial if we do draft one because we need two and it never hurts to have depth.

We NEED to protect Joe.

(04-16-2025, 07:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote:
Hernandez is coming off an ACL tear so he might not be able to even practice until the season starts.

But yeah, Risner and Scherff should be on our minds for sure after the Draft whether we draft a Guard or not.

We need the insurance in case the rookie and others are not ready.

Didn't realize Hernandez was out that long and it does worry me that we'll even wait until after to sign a free agent guard. I guess it's a good idea just to see who becomes available post-draft, but I'd rather just lock up the position now and in the draft.

[ERIC1]

Bengals may or may not go OL early in the draft..Regardless,, if the defense plays well the team is pretty damn impressive and can go deep into the playoffs...with the OLinemen they have

[ERIC1]

(04-16-2025, 07:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hernandez is coming off an ACL tear so he might not be able to even practice until the season starts.

But yeah, Risner and Scherff should be on our minds for sure after the Draft whether we draft a Guard or not.

We need the insurance in case the rookie and others are not ready.

aside from the name recognition  ..why should Risner or Scheff be on our minds

[SunsetBengal]

(04-17-2025, 09:24 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: aside from the name recognition  ..why should Risner or Scheff be on our minds

Because they are both good, not great players at a position that the Bengals roster is seriously lacking quality at that won't cripple budget. Aside from that, they are quality veterans who could step in seamlessly and provide instant upgrade to Joe Burrow's pass protection. Even if they draft a good Guard prospect in the draft, there will be some sort of learning curve involved and having a strong veteran capable of starting for entire season if needed is a good insurance policy.

[3wt]

(04-17-2025, 09:57 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Because they are both good, not great players at a position that the Bengals roster is seriously lacking quality at that won't cripple budget. Aside from that, they are quality veterans who could step in seamlessly and provide instant upgrade to Joe Burrow's pass protection. Even if they draft a good Guard prospect in the draft, there will be some sort of learning curve involved and having a strong veteran capable of starting for entire season if needed is a good insurance policy.

This.  Technically speaking we currently have a worse offensive line than last year.

They have their reasons for not signing before the draft, but they can't afford not to sign one now.  I realize that improving our defense is what will make our team more successful, but it will be for naught if you leave the current risk factor for injury to our franchise player.   And protecting the core of the pocket will do the most to improving Joe's ability to step up, having more time in the pocket and improving our running game - especially in must have short yardage plays.   Signing at least one of those guys gives us the flexibility to pursue an improved defense as well.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-17-2025, 11:40 AM)3wt Wrote: This.  Technically speaking we currently have a worse offensive line than last year.

They have their reasons for not signing before the draft, but they can't afford not to sign one now.  I realize that improving our defense is what will make our team more successful, but it will be for naught if you leave the current risk factor for injury to our franchise player.   And protecting the core of the pocket will do the most to improving Joe's ability to step up, having more time in the pocket and improving our running game - especially in must have short yardage plays.   Signing at least one of those guys gives us the flexibility to pursue an improved defense as well.

Even with a defense that plays up to "average" level by NFL standards, the offense is still going to have to score a lot of points in order to win the division. They will also need to be able to run the ball effectively at times and convert some critical short yardage plays when needed. A team simply cannot be almost completely one dimensional and expect to win championships. Adding proven veteran stability increases their chances of being able to run a more balanced attack.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-16-2025, 10:24 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Didn't realize Hernandez was out that long and it does worry me that we'll even wait until after to sign a free agent guard. I guess it's a good idea just to see who becomes available post-draft, but I'd rather just lock up the position now and in the draft.

Same here, Risner is out there and has said he would love to be a Bengal. At least reach out to him, he wouldn't be expensive right now.

(04-17-2025, 09:24 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: aside from the name recognition  ..why should Risner or Scheff be on our minds

Because they are better than what we currently have at Guard? I don't know....

[3wt]

(04-17-2025, 11:50 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Even with a defense that plays up to "average" level by NFL standards, the offense is still going to have to score a lot of points in order to win the division. They will also need to be able to run the ball effectively at times and convert some critical short yardage plays when needed. A team simply cannot be almost completely one dimensional and expect to win championships. Adding proven veteran stability increases their chances of being able to run a more balanced attack.

Exactly

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-16-2025, 07:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hernandez is coming off an ACL tear so he might not be able to even practice until the season starts.

But yeah, Risner and Scherff should be on our minds for sure after the Draft whether we draft a Guard or not.

We need the insurance in case the rookie and others are not ready.

I'd be comfortable with Patrick starting at the start of the season if Hernandez isn't ready yet. But his injury was in Game 5. All tears are different. I think the issue is more that he cannot pass a physical now. But in 4 months he should be fine. 

In terms of FA, Guard (Hernandez, Scherff, Risner) and Safety (Blackmon) are the only real spots where I see a starter level player that makes sense for us in terms of need/price. Hilton, I guess, at slot, but it seems like we have moved on. 

Though guys like Smith at DE, Dobbins at RB, and, to a lesser extent, Simmons/Bell at S could provide some situational depth. I might be willing to take a flier on Chubb at RB3, as well. 

But outside of that, I don't see much in FA left. After the draft and post-June 1 cuts will see some vets become available, but we should not count on that. Cannot tell who. 

I still think we need 2 Gs, pass rush help at DE & DT, and some help at S. I think Rds 1-4 could hit 4 of those, but 5 is pushing it. Not to mention TE1, CB1, RB depth, OT depth, LB help, WR depth, and PK. 

We are gonna have to ride with some guys we'd have liked to replace (Pratt, Stone, Volson, McPherson). Maybe ALL of them. Hope they bounce back. 

And hope some of our young guys level up: Mims, C. Brown, Yoshi, Murphy, Jackson, Jenkins, Turner, D. Hill, CTB, Battle, even Ossai. 

And we need to nail these picks. I am strongly in favor of taking a safe double on early picks (Emmanwori, Starks, J. Campbell, Zabel, Jackson, Harmon, Watts, etc.) than swinging forcthe fences on guys like Stewart and M. Williams, or even Nolen & Green. 

No flags. At least in terms of production, attitude, or ability. A niggling injury I can handle. And given our Burton choice last year, I flat out don't trust whomever iur background checker is at the FO. I hope we have a new one. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-16-2025, 08:58 AM)Sled21 Wrote: That's because there are no guards or tackles considered first rounders in this draft. The first round will be almost all defense from all the teams that aren't looking for a QB. Guards and Tackles will be there in the 2nd and 3rd.

That is nonsense. Campbell and Membou (short OTs) will go top 10. Simmons will go Rd1 almost surely. Ditto Banks. That is 4 OTs right there. 

Zabel and Jackson could easily go Rd1, and I'd be totally fine with either. Ditto Booker. 

There just is not much difference between 15 and 50 this year. So just go get your guy. I think the guy we pick at #17 and the guy we pick at #49 will be virtually an identical caliber of player. There are some raw/uber atletic guys we could get at #17 (Stewart, Nolen, Emmanwori, J. Cambell), where thosecguys will be rarer at #49 (Porter), but not a ton of difference. 

Unless a Warren, Walker, Jeanty, or Johnson type falls to us, I just pick the guy who can help us the most at whatever position. Players not Projects. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-17-2025, 02:25 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I'd be comfortable with Patrick starting at the start of the season if Hernandez isn't ready yet. But his injury was in Game 5. All tears are different. I think the issue is more that he cannot pass a physical now. But in 4 months he should be fine. 

In terms of FA, Guard (Hernandez, Scherff, Risner) and Safety (Blackmon) are the only real spots where I see a starter level player that makes sense for us in terms of need/price. Hilton, I guess, at slot, but it seems like we have moved on. 

Though guys like Smith at DE, Dobbins at RB, and, to a lesser extent, Simmons/Bell at S could provide some situational depth. I might be willing to take a flier on Chubb at RB3, as well. 

But outside of that, I don't see much in FA left. After the draft and post-June 1 cuts will see some vets become available, but we should not count on that. Cannot tell who. 

I still think we need 2 Gs, pass rush help at DE & DT, and some help at S. I think Rds 1-4 could hit 4 of those, but 5 is pushing it. Not to mention TE1, CB1, RB depth, OT depth, LB help, WR depth, and PK. 

We are gonna have to ride with some guys we'd have liked to replace (Pratt, Stone, Volson, McPherson). Maybe ALL of them. Hope they bounce back. 

And hope some of our young guys level up: Mims, C. Brown, Yoshi, Murphy, Jackson, Jenkins, Turner, D. Hill, CTB, Battle, even Ossai. 

And we need to nail these picks. I am strongly in favor of taking a safe double on early picks (Emmanwori, Starks, J. Campbell, Zabel, Jackson, Harmon, Watts, etc.) than swinging forcthe fences on guys like Stewart and M. Williams, or even Nolen & Green. 

No flags. At least in terms of production, attitude, or ability. A niggling injury I can handle. And given our Burton choice last year, I flat out don't trust whomever iur background checker is at the FO. I hope we have a new one. 

Good post Ike. Agree with lots of this, especially on Hernandez who could be an option later once he can pass a physical. Risner right now 
though just makes too much sense and I don't understand at very least reaching out to the guy who says he would love to be a Bengal and
being at a position of need. To act like Volson or Ford is the answer at one of the starting spots I find to be insulting to Burrow.

We all saw how we lost the SB and it was because of poor play specifically at Guard late in the game. The FO has to understand this I would
figure and actually understand that Guard is INDEED an important position.

Of course I am a positive poster I just get frustrated not doing our best to free up the Draft rather than adding players after to complete
the roster because some certain players didn't fall to us etc.

Agree on staying away from poor production or poor attitude in the Draft. Shemar Stewart and some of the early Ends to be specific.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-17-2025, 05:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Good post Ike. Agree with lots of this, especially on Hernandez who could be an option later once he can pass a physical. Risner right now 
though just makes too much sense and I don't understand at very least reaching out to the guy who says he would love to be a Bengal and
being at a position of need. To act like Volson or Ford is the answer at one of the starting spots I find to be insulting to Burrow.

We all saw how we lost the SB and it was because of poor play specifically at Guard late in the game. The FO has to understand this I would
figure and actually understand that Guard is INDEED an important position.

Of course I am a positive poster I just get frustrated not doing our best to free up the Draft rather than adding players after to complete
the roster because some certain players didn't fall to us etc.

Agree on staying away from poor production or poor attitude in the Draft. Shemar Stewart and some of the early Ends to be specific.

Good post. And I agree. I don't think Volson or Ford are the answers. Volson is a poor pass blocker, but was our best run blocker (outside of Trent Brown) on the OL last year. Peters may think he is fixable. Now, I am skeptical. Peters didn't fix anyone in NE last year. That MOJO was not working. 

Regardless, Patrick is better AND more versatile. Volson is LG only. Ford is better at tackle, where he is not good. He is OL#9 in my world. A good guy to have on gameday because he can fill in at T & G, but not a guy I want replacing the starter long term. I fear the team likes him more. 

Patrick did not sound like a guy who thought he was the starter for sure. I think we need a starting G in the draft and maybe an OT3. An OT who we coukd kickninside for 2 years and then take OBJ's spit makes a ton of sense, and kills 2 birds with one stone. We have looked at a lot of OTs. 

At this point, cutting Volson/Pratt/Stone is almost pointless because there is no one out there worth the $$ saved. Almost. Not quite, though. If we ride out the contracts, maybe we start getting comp picks? 

IDK, all I was really saying is that we are likely gonna be stuck with some guys we don't like starting. And Volson was top of mind. But if we land 1 starting guard in the draft, that guy & Patrick become the starters. And Volson becomes a $4 mil backup who can only play 1 spot. If the draftee is RG, though, I can see him sticking around as Patrick's backup with 1 year to try and fix him. 2 new G's with Volson cut and Patrick + Ford (or Kirkland/Stueber) as the #4 guard is what I would like the best. 

[J24]

I don't think the need for guard can be overestimated.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-17-2025, 11:46 PM)J24 Wrote: I don't think the need for guard can be overestimated.

I don't do X, what is it?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-17-2025, 08:06 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good post. And I agree. I don't think Volson or Ford are the answers. Volson is a poor pass blocker, but was our best run blocker (outside of Trent Brown) on the OL last year. Peters may think he is fixable. Now, I am skeptical. Peters didn't fix anyone in NE last year. That MOJO was not working. 

Regardless, Patrick is better AND more versatile. Volson is LG only. Ford is better at tackle, where he is not good. He is OL#9 in my world. A good guy to have on gameday because he can fill in at T & G, but not a guy I want replacing the starter long term. I fear the team likes him more. 

Patrick did not sound like a guy who thought he was the starter for sure. I think we need a starting G in the draft and maybe an OT3. An OT who we coukd kickninside for 2 years and then take OBJ's spit makes a ton of sense, and kills 2 birds with one stone. We have looked at a lot of OTs. 

At this point, cutting Volson/Pratt/Stone is almost pointless because there is no one out there worth the $$ saved. Almost. Not quite, though. If we ride out the contracts, maybe we start getting comp picks? 

IDK, all I was really saying is that we are likely gonna be stuck with some guys we don't like starting. And Volson was top of mind. But if we land 1 starting guard in the draft, that guy & Patrick become the starters. And Volson becomes a $4 mil backup who can only play 1 spot. If the draftee is RG, though, I can see him sticking around as Patrick's backup with 1 year to try and fix him. 2 new G's with Volson cut and Patrick + Ford (or Kirkland/Stueber) as the #4 guard is what I would like the best. 

Peters had the least talented OL in the NFL to work with at New England. Cannot blame him for not making that trash elite honestly.

Mims is a fantastic talent, Orlando had his best season last year before getting hurt badly and playing on one leg. Ted is solid. Volson actually 
is very versatile, played all over the line at NDSU. So might be a good backup along with Ford. I don't really care what they are being paid, the 
best players need to start. Patrick is better than anyone we have at Guard and as long as he plays like it he should be a starter.

Add an OL that can play Guard in the Draft somewhat early and bring in Risner after the Draft and I think we could be much better on the OL 
this year under Peters. Peters is good at teaching hand fighting which was poor from our OL last year besides Orlando and Amarius.