Al Golden and the Coke Machine at Work

[samhain]

At some point in my life, I drank soda.  I was caffeine dependent before the era of energy drinks and high-test prescriptions like Adderall and  Provigil were more commonplace as productivity enhancers.  Been awhile, as you can tell.  

I also was lazy and a crappy grocery shopper, therefore I ended up wasting a lot of money in vending machines buying soda.  Sometimes Diet Dew.  Sometimes Diet Coke.  maybe the real deal occasionally.  

One evening, I put the money in as I had a hundred times.  I hit the selection button.  Unlike in previous encounters, the once trusty machine before me failed to reciprocate my generosity.  No caffeine and also no buck 25 to boot.  I was pissed and tired.  

A few hours later, a co-worker came into the break room.  He had to wedge his foot in the door to open it.  Why?  Because he had about 7 bottles of various caffeinated beverages in his arms.  Apparently he had the courage to tip the machine (he was a bigger fella) and facilitate and end to the carbonated constipation.  

Why is this being posted on a Bengals forum?  I'll tell you.  You deserve that much.

The Bengals have approached the defense like a backed up pop machine this offseason.  They didn't put money into a different machine to get the things that never came out of their own.  They just want what they've already paid for in draft capital.  They want the first round DB they drafted in Dax Hill to dislodge itself.  They want the first round DE they blew a pick on in Murphy to come rolling out of the open slot.  They'd also like to get the second rounders like CTB and Turner to follow.  Same with DTs like Jackson and Jenkins.  They just can't stand the idea that they aren't getting those dollar bills and quarters out of the vending machine.  They want to rewrite a story that may have already been told.  

Is Al the gifted co-worker that comes along to punch, kick, or tip the machine?  Will an entire defense worth of NFL talent suddenly roll out?  

I feel like this is a really unusual approach for a team to take.  Normally when a coach is fired, a decent part of the unit they coached goes with them to be replaced by the new coach's guys.  This has been minimal so far.  

Was Lou so far gone that he was sitting there willfully dying of thirst rather than giving the machine a sharp kick in the junk?  No idea.

[*bfine32*]

[*Awful Llama*]

Yeah, man, I get it. You're saying, like, we're all in the big Coke machine we call life, and we're all just waiting for the bigger fella to come shake us out and uh....hold us in his big arms and...um....

[Joelist]

With the number of high picks they have sunk into the defense the approach makes sense. They had a DC who was living on a brief period where having a largely veteran unit that knew his system allowed for performances that were acceptable. But the issue was brewing even then - the draftees were not being coached up. So when inevitably they needed to get those youngsters in they could not absorb Lou's system and the result was an implosion. And then it took Lou WAY too long to recognize the issues and do the obvious - simplify the defense. After which the performance improved. But the braintrust of the team for various reasons let Lou go - with the not coaching the kids up being one they actually said in an interview.

Enter Al Golden, whose reputation is one of coaching up new players and making sure his players can execute his system. Will it work? Only time will tell. He definitely has a good bunch of blue chip picks to work with and will likely get more in this draft so he will get a great opportunity to show he can coach them up.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Look, the FA class was weak. BJ Hill was a top 5 DT in FA and he is back. Ossai really came on late. Outside of Sweat, who is good, not great, I did not love any of the DE FAs. Safety was always gonna be too pricey. Burks was a great puckup at LB.  

point being  the solution was always going to be, get better & cheaper through the draft and see what can be salvaged from whatcwe have with the new coaches. 

At CB, CTB, Turner, and Hill all were in the green at PFF. Overall and in coverage. Not spectacular CB1 from anyone. But CB2 from all three. While I would not scoff at a CB1 type pick, I think we are OK with our top 3. Now the depth is iffy..Fig was OK-ish for a rook. Ivey & Wilson barely played. Davis is a good PS guy. Depth took a hit with Hilton gone, but we really only need +1. 

At LB, Wilson was already above average overall, and borderline elite vs tthe run (7th). Burks rated really well, regular and post season, with Philly. And is more athletic. Pratt is a,very serviceable LB2/3 if you get him off the field on 3rd. Heyward flashed a teeny bit late. Njongmeta is PS level and probably gets swapped out for a more athletic cover guy, rather than a thumper. But we have 3 starter level guys at LB. 

At DE, we have Trey. We overpaid a bit for Ossai, but we are gambling that his leap last year, both in terms of run D and sacks, is real. Murphy did not get a sack, but graded out as an OK+ish rotational guy. Yes, we are hoping he levels up. Sample was a perfectly fine depth guy pre-injury. And Johnson looked pretty good in limited snaps. We have 1 star + 3 rotationsl level guys and an OK rookie. While I'd love another DE to be DE2, I could live with those 5 if I have to. 

The situation a S is more dire. Stone & Battle both regreessed last year and weren't good in coverage nor against the run. Anthony and Anderson played less than 20 defensive smaps between them, and those were almost all Anthony before the KC game week 2. I think we need 1, if not 2. I love the kid from Marshall as an eventual Stone replacement at FS in the 6th or as a UDFA. And I like Emmanwori, Starks, amd Watts a lot. Winston, Reid, and Bowman a bit, too. But that is probably depth. 

At DT, they brought Hill back. He's solid, durable,,and versatile, if unspectacular. ESPN had Slaton has #1 in run stop win rate forca good Packers run D. Those are your starters. Jackson & Jenkins both got hurt in camp and got thrown into the fire before they were ready. They were not great,,but had some flashes. DTs take a while, usually..That is 4 guys. We usually carry 5 & play 4. Most of the FA's were $20 mil niche guys like Williams. I love Campbell, but $7 mil was high atcage 37. I think a +1 in the draft is fine. 

Rounds 1-4 I'd expect 1 G, 1 S, 1 DT, and 1 DE. Plus 1 G in FA. Maybe if we see great value in a LB, OT, TE, or RB, they break in and move things back a round for the 4 big needs, or force us into FA. 

I would have been more aggressive reducing Tee/Chase's cap hits, and restructuring Burrow. Thatcwould have been another $30 mil to play with. But it may be that the Browns just don't have the cashflow to do it. Or maybe Burrow won't until Trey is done. Anyway, absent that, I think they have done OK. We did not go backwards anywhere, really. Hilton is the most impactful guy we have lost, atm. And who would be 2nd? Trent Brown? ADG? Hubbard? But if you factor in a Trey extension/raise, the Practice Squad cost, 53 instead of 51, the $2 mil extra for our picks, and some cushion for rollover/injuries, most of that $23 mil in space is gone. 

If we land a starting G in FA, or Blackmon at S, I'd call it a mild win if Trey is back & we draft well.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

This reminds me of the story about the brother and the shoe.

[Sled21]

(04-18-2025, 12:09 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This reminds me of the story about the brother and the shoe.

Which reminds me of Two Girls and a Cup...

[coachmcneil71]

Kicking the "Coke" machine means something entirely different here in Florida.

[*Synric*]

I would have liked the Bengals to add a Pass Rush technique coach to their staff. From what I understand that was Mark Duffner's job for the last few years.

[ERIC1]

(04-17-2025, 10:12 PM)samhain Wrote: At some point in my life, I drank soda.  I was caffeine dependent before the era of energy drinks and high-test prescriptions like Adderall and  Provigil were more commonplace as productivity enhancers.  Been awhile, as you can tell.  

I also was lazy and a crappy grocery shopper, therefore I ended up wasting a lot of money in vending machines buying soda.  Sometimes Diet Dew.  Sometimes Diet Coke.  maybe the real deal occasionally.  

One evening, I put the money in as I had a hundred times.  I hit the selection button.  Unlike in previous encounters, the once trusty machine before me failed to reciprocate my generosity.  No caffeine and also no buck 25 to boot.  I was pissed and tired.  

A few hours later, a co-worker came into the break room.  He had to wedge his foot in the door to open it.  Why?  Because he had about 7 bottles of various caffeinated beverages in his arms.  Apparently he had the courage to tip the machine (he was a bigger fella) and facilitate and end to the carbonated constipation.  

Why is this being posted on a Bengals forum?  I'll tell you.  You deserve that much.

The Bengals have approached the defense like a backed up pop machine this offseason.  They didn't put money into a different machine to get the things that never came out of their own.  They just want what they've already paid for in draft capital.  They want the first round DB they drafted in Dax Hill to dislodge itself.  They want the first round DE they blew a pick on in Murphy to come rolling out of the open slot.  They'd also like to get the second rounders like CTB and Turner to follow.  Same with DTs like Jackson and Jenkins.  They just can't stand the idea that they aren't getting those dollar bills and quarters out of the vending machine.  They want to rewrite a story that may have already been told.  

Is Al the gifted co-worker that comes along to punch, kick, or tip the machine?  Will an entire defense worth of NFL talent suddenly roll out?  

I feel like this is a really unusual approach for a team to take.  Normally when a coach is fired, a decent part of the unit they coached goes with them to be replaced by the new coach's guys.  This has been minimal so far.  

Was Lou so far gone that he was sitting there willfully dying of thirst rather than giving the machine a sharp kick in the junk?  No idea.

for the most part the rookies and even Murphy started to gel later in the season..far more energy...the organization felt that a new voice and perspective was necessary  LOu was let go...no more than that and I would suggest to you their insights as to how a player or players are progressing, or not,  is far better than our own.. If this current team stays healthy..we will be in the playoffs... 

[ERIC1]

(04-18-2025, 08:30 AM)Synric Wrote: I would have liked the Bengals to add a Pass Rush technique coach to their staff. From what I understand that was Mark Duffner's job for the last few years.

I am more concerned about stopping the run

[TecmoBengals]

I don't think we want to hear about coke and anything Bengals-related in the same conversation.

Stanley Wilson says "Hi."

[ERIC1]

(04-17-2025, 11:42 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Look, the FA class was weak. BJ Hill was a top 5 DT in FA and he is back. Ossai really came on late. Outside of Sweat, who is good, not great, I did not love any of the DE FAs. Safety was always gonna be too pricey. Burks was a great puckup at LB.  

point being  the solution was always going to be, get better & cheaper through the draft and see what can be salvaged from whatcwe have with the new coaches. 

At CB, CTB, Turner, and Hill all were in the green at PFF. Overall and in coverage. Not spectacular CB1 from anyone. But CB2 from all three. While I would not scoff at a CB1 type pick, I think we are OK with our top 3. Now the depth is iffy..Fig was OK-ish for a rook. Ivey & Wilson barely played. Davis is a good PS guy. Depth took a hit with Hilton gone, but we really only need +1. 

At LB, Wilson was already above average overall, and borderline elite vs tthe run (7th). Burks rated really well, regular and post season, with Philly. And is more athletic. Pratt is a,very serviceable LB2/3 if you get him off the field on 3rd. Heyward flashed a teeny bit late. Njongmeta is PS level and probably gets swapped out for a more athletic cover guy, rather than a thumper. But we have 3 starter level guys at LB. 

At DE, we have Trey. We overpaid a bit for Ossai, but we are gambling that his leap last year, both in terms of run D and sacks, is real. Murphy did not get a sack, but graded out as an OK+ish rotational guy. Yes, we are hoping he levels up. Sample was a perfectly fine depth guy pre-injury. And Johnson looked pretty good in limited snaps. We have 1 star + 3 rotationsl level guys and an OK rookie. While I'd love another DE to be DE2, I could live with those 5 if I have to. 

The situation a S is more dire. Stone & Battle both regreessed last year and weren't good in coverage nor against the run. Anthony and Anderson played less than 20 defensive smaps between them, and those were almost all Anthony before the KC game week 2. I think we need 1, if not 2. I love the kid from Marshall as an eventual Stone replacement at FS in the 6th or as a UDFA. And I like Emmanwori, Starks, amd Watts a lot. Winston, Reid, and Bowman a bit, too. But that is probably depth. 

At DT, they brought Hill back. He's solid, durable,,and versatile, if unspectacular. ESPN had Slaton has #1 in run stop win rate forca good Packers run D. Those are your starters. Jackson & Jenkins both got hurt in camp and got thrown into the fire before they were ready. They were not great,,but had some flashes. DTs take a while, usually..That is 4 guys. We usually carry 5 & play 4. Most of the FA's were $20 mil niche guys like Williams. I love Campbell, but $7 mil was high atcage 37. I think a +1 in the draft is fine. 

Rounds 1-4 I'd expect 1 G, 1 S, 1 DT, and 1 DE. Plus 1 G in FA. Maybe if we see great value in a LB, OT, TE, or RB, they break in and move things back a round for the 4 big needs, or force us into FA. 

I would have been more aggressive reducing Tee/Chase's cap hits, and restructuring Burrow. Thatcwould have been another $30 mil to play with. But it may be that the Browns just don't have the cashflow to do it. Or maybe Burrow won't until Trey is done. Anyway, absent that, I think they have done OK. We did not go backwards anywhere, really. Hilton is the most impactful guy we have lost, atm. And who would be 2nd? Trent Brown? ADG? Hubbard? But if you factor in a Trey extension/raise, the Practice Squad cost, 53 instead of 51, the $2 mil extra for our picks, and some cushion for rollover/injuries, most of that $23 mil in space is gone. 

If we land a starting G in FA, or Blackmon at S, I'd call it a mild win if Trey is back & we draft well.

team played much better last third of the season,..if we stay healthy we will be in the playoffs..I would imagine we will see DL..OL and linebacker addressed in the draft

[*PhilHos*]

(04-18-2025, 08:07 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Which reminds me of Two Girls and a Cup...

I don't think I've heard that story. Do you have a link or something where I can research it online?

[TecmoBengals]

(04-18-2025, 09:45 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't think I've heard that story. Do you have a link or something where I can research it online?

[Sled21]

(04-18-2025, 09:45 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't think I've heard that story. Do you have a link or something where I can research it online?

I could, but don't blame me when you blow chunks....

[t3r3e3]

(04-18-2025, 09:25 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I don't think we want to hear about coke and anything Bengals-related in the same conversation.

Stanley Wilson says "Hi."

Underrated comment. That was a dark day in Bengals history.

[HarleyDog]

(04-18-2025, 08:07 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Which reminds me of Two Girls and a Cup...

What a shit eating comparrison. You should be ashamed. 

[*ochocincos*]

(04-17-2025, 10:12 PM)samhain Wrote: At some point in my life, I drank soda.  I was caffeine dependent before the era of energy drinks and high-test prescriptions like Adderall and  Provigil were more commonplace as productivity enhancers.  Been awhile, as you can tell.  

I also was lazy and a crappy grocery shopper, therefore I ended up wasting a lot of money in vending machines buying soda.  Sometimes Diet Dew.  Sometimes Diet Coke.  maybe the real deal occasionally.  

One evening, I put the money in as I had a hundred times.  I hit the selection button.  Unlike in previous encounters, the once trusty machine before me failed to reciprocate my generosity.  No caffeine and also no buck 25 to boot.  I was pissed and tired.  

A few hours later, a co-worker came into the break room.  He had to wedge his foot in the door to open it.  Why?  Because he had about 7 bottles of various caffeinated beverages in his arms.  Apparently he had the courage to tip the machine (he was a bigger fella) and facilitate and end to the carbonated constipation.  

Why is this being posted on a Bengals forum?  I'll tell you.  You deserve that much.

The Bengals have approached the defense like a backed up pop machine this offseason.  They didn't put money into a different machine to get the things that never came out of their own.  They just want what they've already paid for in draft capital.  They want the first round DB they drafted in Dax Hill to dislodge itself.  They want the first round DE they blew a pick on in Murphy to come rolling out of the open slot.  They'd also like to get the second rounders like CTB and Turner to follow.  Same with DTs like Jackson and Jenkins.  They just can't stand the idea that they aren't getting those dollar bills and quarters out of the vending machine.  They want to rewrite a story that may have already been told.  

Is Al the gifted co-worker that comes along to punch, kick, or tip the machine?  Will an entire defense worth of NFL talent suddenly roll out?  

I feel like this is a really unusual approach for a team to take.  Normally when a coach is fired, a decent part of the unit they coached goes with them to be replaced by the new coach's guys.  This has been minimal so far.  

Was Lou so far gone that he was sitting there willfully dying of thirst rather than giving the machine a sharp kick in the junk?  No idea.

While I get what you are trying to get at, teams sometimes have to deal with consequences for the early draft picks they made.
You gotta ride or die with them.
If you constantly give up after a season or two and replace them, you just wasted that draft pick entirely.
Plus, that's extra money you're now investing to replace because you're likely still keeping that draft pick on the roster anyway.

From what I have seen and heard of Golden's scheme at ND, he likes to run a lot of press man.
That is a shift from Anarumo's heavy zone.
We might see history repeat itself like we did in 2019 when certain guys from the old regime didn't fit well in the new one.
But you gotta try them at least once before throwing them aside.

[*Synric*]

(04-18-2025, 09:24 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: I am more concerned about stopping the run

Jerry Montgomery is the DL coach/run game coordinator. Most coaching staffs carry a guy that works specifically on pass rush technique the Steelers have Denzel Martin and the Ravens have Chuck Smith. As I mentioned in my other post that was Mark Duffner for the Bengals last year I don't think he was replaced.