Your 2025 Draft Grade: The Poll

[*bfine32*]

(Yesterday, 02:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Am I missing something?

Knight and Carter both were lighter than Pratt, but still ran the 40yd (plus 10yd and 20yd split) slower than Pratt and I wouldn't consider Pratt to be a giant injection of speed.

Brooks is 5'9 and under 215... how is that a big powerful back?

Pratt was a former FS and considered one of the rangiest LBs in his draft. Pratt's 40 was 1/100th of a second faster than DK and their 10-yard split was the same. DK did have a much faster shuttle than Prat, and that speaks to "quickness". I consider DK to be Pratt with more College production Carter is not quite on the same level and that's why he feel 2 more rounds.

As to Brooks, he slimmed down for the draft process, he played last year around 230

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(Yesterday, 03:12 PM)Joelist Wrote: Tahj Brooks is 5'10 and played at 230lbs last season. So yes big back. Check his scouting reports; his running game is power running inside and he is very strong also. 

Both Knight and Carter have speed on their scouting reports as plus. Hence the comment that this should help our usual issues with dual threat QBs. Both are also good tacklers - which Pratt is not to put it mildly. 

Tahj Brooks measured 5'9.25" and weighed in at 214lbs at the NFL Combine.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tahj-brooks/32004252-4f16-8325-38e7-d7fab363c600
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahj_Brooks
https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Tahj-Brooks-RB-TexasTech
https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-select-rb-tahj-brooks-with-193rd-overall-pick

In college Bryce Young was listed at 6'0". He was 5'10" when measured at the combine. Self-reported height and weight are not actual height and weight.

[*Synric*]

(Yesterday, 03:23 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Tahj Brooks measured 5'9.25" and weighed in at 214lbs at the NFL Combine.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tahj-brooks/32004252-4f16-8325-38e7-d7fab363c600
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahj_Brooks
https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Tahj-Brooks-RB-TexasTech
https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-select-rb-tahj-brooks-with-193rd-overall-pick

In college Bryce Young was listed at 6'0". He was 5'10" when measured at the combine. Self-reported height and weight are not actual height and weight.

Brooks played at 230ish. He weighed in at the East-West Shrine Game at 229lbs.

Info on the All-Star Games I posted in rhe draft section for anyone that wants to check it out.

https://thebengalsboard.com/thread-39872.html

[*Synric*]

It's hard for me to get excited about making a 2-Down Linebacker a Top 50 Draft Pick.

[*bfine32*]

(Yesterday, 03:51 PM)Synric Wrote: It's hard for me to get excited about making a 2-Down Linebacker a Top 50 Draft Pick.

I cannot excite, but I can inform you.

We've had this discussion before. There's nothing to indicate DK will be a 2-down LB. 

Golden is not Lou. Just compare the snap counts of his starting LBs to his starting DEs last year at Notre Dame. 

Seems you weren't too high on Micah Parsons because he was a 2-down LB.

[CJD]

I land around a C/C-

I don't feel the need to harp on Shemar Stewart. We all hope he will produce in the NFL, and many of us doubt he will based on historical data on players that don't produce in college. Let's just all hope for the best. At the very least, he is a fresh body for the rotation with incredible upside.
I'll call it a generous D- grade.

I like Knight as a player. He seems smart, strong, fast and seems like a terrific leader. I understand why the coaches wanted him. I just wish it didn't come at the cost of an elite guard prospect like Tate Ratledge. I have fears that we will regret not taking Ratledge the same way we regretted not taking Creed Humphrey in 2021. I am not thrilled with Knight's age, as he will be entering his age 30 season before his second contract is even active (should he earn it with us, which I imagine is the ideal scenario when making the pick). But if you get 5 really good years out of a player, that's probably worth a mid 2nd round pick. I just know we're going to be watching Ratledge's career for the next 5 years and, unconsciously or not, comparing it to the impact that Knight has on our defense.
Let's call it a C with an asterisk for further examination a couple years from now.


They partially made up for missing Ratledge by taking Fairchild. Once again, I understand why they chose him. It sounds like Scott Peters found his kindred spirit in Fairchild. One's a Jiu Jitsu fighter, the other is a wrestler. Both highly value leverage and how to gain it in hand fights etc. It sounds like he's already there with pass protection and the main thing he has to work on is run blocking. I hope it works perfectly. I have concerns about the value of the pick, as Wyatt Milum was a highly decorated OT that many believe would translate perfectly to OG. Maybe the Bengals were scarred by Carman and just wanted a pure OG. We'll have to see. Regardless, this is likely a day 1 starting rookie at LG. If you get that in the third round (and he isn't a complete and utter liability like Volson was), then you feel really good about that pick.
I will give this a B+ grade. Optimistic perhaps, but he already has the pass protection chops, and that's the most important thing when you have Joe Burrow.

I actually really liked the value they got in Barrett Carter in the 4th round but, unfortunately, it did also shine a light on the Knight pick once again. Insider sources (if you believe James Rapien) believe that the Bengals had a 2nd round grade on Carter, so when he was there in the 4th he was simply too good to pass  up. If they had multiple LBs with 2nd round grades on them, then that would make you think you can pass on Knight and take Ratledge, especially in hindsight when you got one of them 2 rounds later. But alas, this is who is on our team and you can't be mad about having a high quality 3rd LB on the roster.
In a vacuum, B+. In the context of already having spent a pick on Knight, maybe just a B.

Jalen Rivers is probably the best value they got in this draft. I saw him as high as the 3rd round, so getting him in the 5th is great value. Another pass protection first offensive lineman, which is my ideal scenario if I had to pick between pass protection and run blocking. I like him as the backup OT that can move inside as well. He could develop into a starter, depending on where they focus him.
Solid A, in my opinion.


Tahj Brooks seems like the thunder to Brown's lightning. A bit cliche? Perhaps, but I really like his ability to run over tacklers and pass block on 3rd down. With the right opportunity, I could see him being a 3 down back. His main drawback is his lack of explosive runaway speed, but that's what we have Brown for. He seems like a perfect complement to what we already have in the backfield. It's interesting, because we have Perine who offers similar traits and then Moss, who we just restructured. What are the odds we cut Moss after restructuring him?
Give it a B+, as I think this secures our backfield for a few seasons while we iron out what we want the future at RB to look like.

At the end of day 2, I was thinking a D because of what I perceived to be very poor choices in the 1st and 2nd round (contextually in the latter case). But they had a really strong day 3 where they were not drafting based on need, but rather actually taking the best player available. Maybe if they had done that in days 1 and 2, they'd be sitting with a solid A right now.

Imagine a draft where we got Derrick Harmon, Tate Ratledge, Xavier Watts, Barrett Carter, Jalen Rivers and Tahj Brooks...
Ah well...Let's root for our guys now!

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 04:08 PM)CJD Wrote: I land around a C/C-

I don't feel the need to harp on Shemar Stewart. We all hope he will produce in the NFL, and many of us doubt he will based on historical data on players that don't produce in college. Let's just all hope for the best. At the very least, he is a fresh body for the rotation with incredible upside.
I'll call it a generous D- grade.

I like Knight as a player. He seems smart, strong, fast and seems like a terrific leader. I understand why the coaches wanted him. I just wish it didn't come at the cost of an elite guard prospect like Tate Ratledge. I have fears that we will regret not taking Ratledge the same way we regretted not taking Creed Humphrey in 2021. I am not thrilled with Knight's age, as he will be entering his age 30 season before his second contract is even active (should he earn it with us, which I imagine is the ideal scenario when making the pick). But if you get 5 really good years out of a player, that's probably worth a mid 2nd round pick. I just know we're going to be watching Ratledge's career for the next 5 years and, unconsciously or not, comparing it to the impact that Knight has on our defense.
Let's call it a C with an asterisk for further examination a couple years from now.


They partially made up for missing Ratledge by taking Fairchild. Once again, I understand why they chose him. It sounds like Scott Peters found his kindred spirit in Fairchild. One's a Jiu Jitsu fighter, the other is a wrestler. Both highly value leverage and how to gain it in hand fights etc. It sounds like he's already there with pass protection and the main thing he has to work on is run blocking. I hope it works perfectly. I have concerns about the value of the pick, as Wyatt Milum was a highly decorated OT that many believe would translate perfectly to OG. Maybe the Bengals were scarred by Carman and just wanted a pure OG. We'll have to see. Regardless, this is likely a day 1 starting rookie at LG. If you get that in the third round (and he isn't a complete and utter liability like Volson was), then you feel really good about that pick.
I will give this a B+ grade. Optimistic perhaps, but he already has the pass protection chops, and that's the most important thing when you have Joe Burrow.

I actually really liked the value they got in Barrett Carter in the 4th round but, unfortunately, it did also shine a light on the Knight pick once again. Insider sources (if you believe James Rapien) believe that the Bengals had a 2nd round grade on Carter, so when he was there in the 4th he was simply too good to pass  up. If they had multiple LBs with 2nd round grades on them, then that would make you think you can pass on Knight and take Ratledge, especially in hindsight when you got one of them 2 rounds later. But alas, this is who is on our team and you can't be mad about having a high quality 3rd LB on the roster.
In a vacuum, B+. In the context of already having spent a pick on Knight, maybe just a B.

Jalen Rivers is probably the best value they got in this draft. I saw him as high as the 3rd round, so getting him in the 5th is great value. Another pass protection first offensive lineman, which is my ideal scenario if I had to pick between pass protection and run blocking. I like him as the backup OT that can move inside as well. He could develop into a starter, depending on where they focus him.
Solid A, in my opinion.


Tahj Brooks seems like the thunder to Brown's lightning. A bit cliche? Perhaps, but I really like his ability to run over tacklers and pass block on 3rd down. With the right opportunity, I could see him being a 3 down back. His main drawback is his lack of explosive runaway speed, but that's what we have Brown for. He seems like a perfect complement to what we already have in the backfield. It's interesting, because we have Perine who offers similar traits and then Moss, who we just restructured. What are the odds we cut Moss after restructuring him?
Give it a B+, as I think this secures our backfield for a few seasons while we iron out what we want the future at RB to look like.

At the end of day 2, I was thinking a D because of what I perceived to be very poor choices in the 1st and 2nd round (contextually in the latter case). But they had a really strong day 3 where they were not drafting based on need, but rather actually taking the best player available. Maybe if they had done that in days 1 and 2, they'd be sitting with a solid A right now.

Imagine a draft where we got Derrick Harmon, Tate Ratledge, Xavier Watts, Barrett Carter, Jalen Rivers and Tahj Brooks...
Ah well...Let's root for our guys now!

On Thursday night, I wasn't a fan of the Shemar Stewart pick. After watching 4-5 game videos of him, I changed my thinking on him. He really is tremendously disruptive player, his down fall is that he often failed to finish by overrunning his target. However, it was not a loss, as that disruption of the play allowed his fellow defenders to close and often make the play. If he can do that same thing for the Bengals, I feel like we'll all be happy with the end result.

Demetrius Knight to me was a real head scratcher of a pick at that spot. I mean, testing, numbers and film says that he's basically Germaine Pratt, who they're looking to possibly move on from. I just feel like they could have made better use of that #49 selection than on a 2 down LB.

Dylan Fairchild in the 3rd, a very strong pick. I'll admit that I never once mocked him to the Bengals, but the more I learn about the guy and see from his game clips the more I wish I would have mocked him to the Bengals.

Barrett Carter? Sure, he's got a unique skill set as twitchy player with good burst. He should be good for blitzing, able to cover, and possibly a good spy for guys like Lamar Jackson. You definitely don't want him attempting to stack and shed in the middle, but with his build and skillset being similar to a SS, he gives the chance to stay in base more downs.

Jalen Rivers, I like this pick for the same reasons you do. Previously I noted that if it weren't for his prolific injury history he likely goes about a 100 picks sooner. Perhaps keeping him covered by a Tackle reduces his risk for lower body injuries?

Tahj Brooks is probably my second favorite pick in this year's draft. I love that he's like a thicker, stouter Giovanni Bernard. He should at the very least make Zack Moss expendable once he clears medical and at best he rises right up to the role of 3rd down/COP back.

I can't with good conscience put a letter "grade" on this draft as I feel like it's all just knee jerk at this point. Hopefully 3 years down the road we're looking at 2-3 household names that they added this weekend, along with a couple of good contributors.

[*Synric*]

(Yesterday, 04:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I cannot excite, but I can inform you.

We've had this discussion before. There's nothing to indicate DK will be a 2-down LB. 

Golden is not Lou. Just compare the snap counts of his starting LBs to his starting DEs last year at Notre Dame. 

Seems you weren't too high on Micah Parsons because he was a 2-down LB.

Micah Parsons was a stack LB that they expected to move to the Edge as an NFL rookie and why someone of his talent fell out of the top 10.


Demetrius Knight is a downhill moving linebacker that you want to keep on a track. He is an ok zone defender in small zones (hooks, curl) and someone you can attack flat routes with. Like Pratt it will get ugly if you ask him to man up on a TE or RB and you don't want him to flips his hips and carry down the seam. I expect him to be in a rotation with Oren Burks. 

The upgrade here is that Knight has shown high level football IQ when it comes to blitzing. Barrett Carter is a similar prospect but smaller. 

[masonbengals fan]

I probably knee-jerked a C+ grade, but the more I learn about each of them the better I like it.

Golden got who he wanted & we upgraded at guard.

I like the late round RB. 

Looking forward to seeing it come together. 

[*bfine32*]

(Yesterday, 05:07 PM)Synric Wrote: Micah Parsons was a stack LB that they expected to move to the Edge as an NFL rookie and why someone of his talent fell out of the top 10.


Demetrius Knight is a downhill moving linebacker that you want to keep on a track. He is an ok zone defender in small zones (hooks, curl) and someone you can attack flat routes with. Like Pratt it will get ugly if you ask him to man up on a TE or RB and you don't want him to flips his hips and carry down the seam. I expect him to be in a rotation with Oren Burks. 

The upgrade here is that Knight has shown high level football IQ when it comes to blitzing. Barrett Carter is a similar prospect but smaller. 

And the part I think you're assuming is that we're going to leave him in at the sacrifice of a DB, I think it'll be more of 3-dlinemen on the pass playes.

This is the snap count from a typical Notre Dame game last year:


https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/article/every-snap-counts-notre-dame-vs-usc-241132821/

Their "#1 DE" had 17 snaps. Golden plays through his LBs at all three levels.  He seems to be heavy on 3  down linemen and 4-5 DBs. He has LB types all over the rest of the field. Will it work? IDK, but we did pick him for the job and it seems to be the way he drafted

We could easily play a 3-3-5 under Golden 

[*bfine32*]

I wouldn't be mad if we started:

Stewart-Hill- Hendrickson (Jenkins-Murphy-Jackson in heavy rotations)
Logan-Barrett-Knight
Hill-Ward-Newton-CTB-Stone

I'd say our weak spot is currently SS and I wouldn't mind Julian Blackmon getting thrown a few bucks

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 02:40 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Some of the grades come out wildly different than consensus. They're formula certainly doesn't hit on everybody and that's why I pointed out 70 of they're top 100 actually went in the first 100 picks. 

But let me ask this. Murphy ( another player he said not to draft there and unsure of his ranking) also a big, tested well athletically, good against the run and poor pass rush metrics. What production had he given us? Could we not have drafted that guy in the 6th Rd and got just as much stats out of him? 

I will also say that they're ranking is also used like a risk assessment. The poor tape, bad production getting him a rank of 180 doesn't mean take him there. But where do you feel comfortable taking the risk on size and athleticism alone? Every round the chance of a quality starter being found drops. So 2nd round, 3rd it all lowers his risk and raises his reward. Might cause you to miss out on him but if your now taking Harmon the best pure pass rushing DT or Jihad the best off the ball linebacker or any other player with a higher hit rate based on metrics the better.

I wanted Campbell and others wanted Harmon. My guess if we took Harmon and Steelers or Ravens took Stewart the pundits would and some fans on here would have said we screwed up by not taking Stewart.

I have said many times, I am not an expert. I hope Golden, Montgomery and Hodges on the defensive side and Peters on the OL side are the experts. They did not draft these guys to fail, unlike a talking head (so called experts) if they are wrong they lose their job, the experts who miss lie Kiper did with Sanders (said he was best QB in the draft) still are doing after drank rankings and acting like they have all the answers.

As for the draft rankings guys like Kiper and Prisco and many others say our draft is a C or C- so aligns with many on the board who are not happy. The good news I found though is CBS has us ranked drafting 25th in 2025, not only playoffs, but wining a game to draft 25th. The bad news is they the Ravens drafting 31st and Bills 30th.

[*Synric*]

(Yesterday, 05:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And the part I think you're assuming is that we're going to leave him in at the sacrifice of a DB, I think it'll be more of 3-dlinemen on the pass playes.

This is the snap count from a typical Notre Dame game last year:


https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/article/every-snap-counts-notre-dame-vs-usc-241132821/

Their "#1 DE" had 17 snaps. Golden plays through his LBs at all three levels.  He seems to be heavy on 3  down linemen and 4-5 DBs. He has LB types all over the rest of the field. Will it work? IDK, but we did pick him for the job and it seems to be the way he drafted

We could easily play a 3-3-5 under Golden 

Al Golden ran mostly a 4-man front with a stand up LEO (VYPER in his terminology) they are listed as a "LB" but they are an Edge. Josh Burnham, Junior Tuihalamaka, Bryce Young, and RJ Oben are all Edge Defenders. 


Mike Santagana for Sports Illustrated wrote and excellent breakdown of Goldens Defense a couple months ago.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/cincinnati-bengals-breakdown-analyzing-front-end--al-goldens-defense

[Soonerpeace]

(Yesterday, 02:57 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: if theyre paying a player, no matter how hopeless the player is, they will not dump the player unless there's a clause in the contract where there is no dead money.

the bengals ownership doesnt want to lose money, so they dont cut bait as often as some other teams do

thats why their ownership is known as "cash poor"

Ownership is like my father who came out of living during the depression and WW2. Just thought I’d lost my mind financing my house or cars. He was 42 when I was born.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 03:51 PM)Synric Wrote: It's hard for me to get excited about making a 2-Down Linebacker a Top 50 Draft Pick.

It seems to me Golden is switching our base to use 3 actual LB's based on his comments. I think you and others are assuming mainly using Lou's scheme.

Would ou agree if Golden is going to a true base 4-3 scheme, we would need Lb's with different talents than in a 2 LB base?

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 05:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And the part I think you're assuming is that we're going to leave him in at the sacrifice of a DB, I think it'll be more of 3-dlinemen on the pass playes.

This is the snap count from a typical Notre Dame game last year:


https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/article/every-snap-counts-notre-dame-vs-usc-241132821/

Their "#1 DE" had 17 snaps. Golden plays through his LBs at all three levels.  He seems to be heavy on 3  down linemen and 4-5 DBs. He has LB types all over the rest of the field. Will it work? IDK, but we did pick him for the job and it seems to be the way he drafted

We could easily play a 3-3-5 under Golden 

This may also be a reason Golden drafted Stewart with his first big draft choice. For the naysayers, yes I think Golden and noone else made the final call on Stewart. It is impossible to hold a coach accountable if they don't have a hand in the decision making process acquiring talent.

Stewart was not just a DE, he was lined up also inside at times. I could see on passing downs our front 4 being:

Trey, Hill, Stewart and Ossai or Murphy

Or Trey, Hill, Murphy, Ossai or Stewart

I am interested to see the twists Al brings into our scheme and how he uses our player's talents

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 05:14 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I probably knee-jerked a C+ grade, but the more I learn about each of them the better I like it.

Golden got who he wanted & we upgraded at guard.

I like the late round RB. 

Looking forward to seeing it come together. 

I don't like actual grades before a snap taken.

But, I can see the floor being a C- and the ceiling be an A. It will depend on Stewart,to be an A, he does not need to be an all pro, he needs to ber very good though in all aspects. I think Knight is going to surprise a lot of people because Al is going to scheme some looks for him.

I like Fairchild, the more I wath film and read about him, the better I like him. He has a shot of becoming a solid 10 year guard in the NFL

[*Synric*]

(Yesterday, 05:52 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It seems to me Golden is switching our base to use 3 actual LB's based on his comments. I think you and others are assuming mainly using Lou's scheme.

Would ou agree if Golden is going to a true base 4-3 scheme, we would need Lb's with different talents than in a 2 LB base?

Yea I seen the interview. Lou mentioned he wasn't sure if they were going to be a base 43 team vs 12 personnel (2WR, 2TE, 1RB) or a heavy nickle (3 Safeties). 11 personnel (3WRs, 1TE, 1RB) matchup will still be mostly 425 looks and rhe NFL is a 11 personnel league.

In base Demetrius Knight is going to end up as the Sam lining up near the line of scrimmage over the Y TE alot. While also playing WILL early downs in their 425 likely rotating with Oren Burks on passing downs.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 06:04 PM)Synric Wrote: Yea I seen the interview. Lou mentioned he wasn't sure if they were going to be a base 43 team vs 12 personnel (2WR, 2TE, 1RB) or a heavy nickle (3 Safeties). 11 personnel (3WRs, 1TE, 1RB) matchup will still be mostly 425 looks and rhe NFL is a 11 personnel league.

In base Demetrius Knight is going to end up as the Sam lining up near the line of scrimmage over the Y TE alot. While also playing WILL early downs in their 425 likely rotating with Oren Burks on passing downs.

I have tremendous reepsect for your opinion, but I am not sure AL has decided how he will use these guys from week to week. We have not seen 3 LB's in our base for a long time, by 3 LB's I mean 3 LB's on the field. He will use more 3 LB's look against 2 TE sets for example, versus 5 DB's.

It appears he wanted more speed immediately from the front 7, he got it. He was a very good anchor to stop the run, he got it with Slaton. Maybe I am wrong, but I think Al is not just going to line guys up in same/similar spots. He did not at ND and was able to use his player's strenghts differntly every week.

[samhain]

(Yesterday, 05:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I wouldn't be mad if we started:

Stewart-Hill- Hendrickson (Jenkins-Murphy-Jackson in heavy rotations)
Logan-Barrett-Knight
Hill-Ward-Newton-CTB-Stone

I'd say our weak spot is currently SS and I wouldn't mind Julian Blackmon getting thrown a few bucks

Who is Ward?