Your 2025 Draft Grade: The Poll

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 08:15 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote:

31) Cincinnati Bengals

With only 6 total picks, the Bengals select a single player within our Top 100 scored prospects.

Their average Score (70.6) ranked 18th and their Value from the Consensus Board puts them at 25th.

They didn't light a single pick on fire this year and… pic.twitter.com/hoYmdUcdih

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) April 28, 2025

 


Here's goodberrys take. I haven't really looked at it yet in full.

It is a joke. He has Stewart ranked at 170 or 180th best player.

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 08:15 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote:

31) Cincinnati Bengals

With only 6 total picks, the Bengals select a single player within our Top 100 scored prospects.

Their average Score (70.6) ranked 18th and their Value from the Consensus Board puts them at 25th.

They didn't light a single pick on fire this year and… pic.twitter.com/hoYmdUcdih

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) April 28, 2025

 


Here's goodberrys take. I haven't really looked at it yet in full.

What the hell is that shit? So sports reporters are now just taking numbers provided from other sources, plugging it into a spread sheet and calling that a "grade"? GTFOH with that lazy ass bullshit. BTW, often times those sources like PFF and the "Consensus" are liable to be suspect at times. PFF can't even fully explain their methodology for grading players in games, the Consensus is comprised of many sources, some of which likely get paid to pump up the rating of certain players.

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 08:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You have would have been happy with Simmins and his ceiling of wing tackle backup if healthy for next 2 years and floor of of IR or not 100% healthy in 2025?

You are an exception if so as most fans expect a major contributor with pick #17 in rund 1.

He has played guard. He could've played LG for us and then yes ideally taken over left tackle. I'm putting alot of faith i would have in him in people that breakdown film. They said his tape was the best of any tackle in this class and he was a top 5 pick if he maintained the play thru the playoffs. 

[Goalpost]

Simmons did have a red flag concerning maturity and character.

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 08:54 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Simmons did have a red flag concerning maturity and character.

Many guys that had "red flag" issues have grown to move past youthful behavior and become strong professionals. I mean it's worth taking note of those "flags", as it certainly could lead to negative behaviors down the road, but that's not always the case.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(Yesterday, 07:36 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: What’s frustrating is seeing KC, Philly, and the Ravens all w/o great picks do well.

The Lions probably added a couple more good OL in Ratledge and Frazier, too. The rich get richer.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 08:45 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: He has played guard. He could've played LG for us and then yes ideally taken over left tackle. I'm putting alot of faith i would have in him in people that breakdown film. They said his tape was the best of any tackle in this class and he was a top 5 pick if he maintained the play thru the playoffs. 

True, some have him rated at best tackle in the class, but none ranked him as a guard. It would have been a risky pick to make with the assumption he may be 100% healthy in 2025 and assume who could also transition to guard in the NFL early in his career.

I think he a true boom or bust pick in round 1 only because of the injury. I could see our fans jumping off the ledge and screaming Ced 2.0, our FO are idiots.

For reference, some had Ced rated bested OT when we grabbed him in round 1 as well.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 08:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Many guys that had "red flag" issues have grown to move past youthful behavior and become strong professionals. I mean it's worth taking note of those "flags", as it certainly could lead to negative behaviors down the road, but that's not always the case.

Ther red flags never come into play until after the red flag behavior or performance issuess surface.

Once player can't get on the field or is average at best, then fans go back and say told you so, how coud FO be so dumb to draft. guy in round 1 who was injured and had character concerns, it was right there and they ignore it, they are idiots.

The Monday morning analysis they will ignore if the players does great.

[J24]

(Yesterday, 08:34 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is a joke. He has Stewart ranked at 170 or 180th best player.

If Stewart didn't have is workout numbers would you really be comfortable with drafting him in the first?

[Mike M (the other one)]

I went with B-, Shemar is just too iffy to me. Everyone else fit holes and made sense, so i'm good with them. If Shemar explodes then it's quickly an A Draft

[CJD]

(Yesterday, 08:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What the hell is that shit? So sports reporters are now just taking numbers provided from other sources, plugging it into a spread sheet and calling that a "grade"? GTFOH with that lazy ass bullshit. BTW, often times those sources like PFF and the "Consensus" are liable to be suspect at times. PFF can't even fully explain their methodology for grading players in games, the Consensus is comprised of many sources, some of which likely get paid to pump up the rating of certain players.

They provide their own grade as well. So they watch the player, give him a grade, collect their measurables, athletic testing, PFF data, market share production, win rates, stop rates, counting stats etc and weight them all based on how their grades have performed on previous classes.

Their system is obviously not perfect, but they have nailed a few mid round steals that go on to have very successful careers. Examples like Nnamdi Madubuike, Bernhard Rainmann, Travis Jones, Martin Emerson, Trey Smith, Chase Brown, Nick Herbig, Kerby Joseph, Tyrone Tracy, Isaiah Likely, among many others.


I think it's a pretty reasonable system.


If we just followed their board, we would have avoided a lot of our recent busts like Jackson Carman, Zack Carter, Tyler Shelvin etc.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 09:42 PM)J24 Wrote: If Stewart didn't have is workout numbers would you really be comfortable with drafting him in the first?

I have no idea how that is relevent, Every player has multiple factors for being drafted. Why would suggest the Bengals ignore it for Stewart? Did the majority of draft pundits have him ranked as a top 32 pick or 1st round grade? Do some have him as a top 10 pick?

The Bengals and Golden felt ge was the guy to help rebuild their defense and a major need since we only had 1 DE under contract next year. As I mentioned earlier, Bengals do not draft 250 to 255 LB. defensive ends. He was the best DE available on their board.

I have also said it was not my 1st choice, I wanted a LB to buid te defense around and wanted Campbell, they did not totally agree with me, but by picking 2 of them and one in round 2, they obviously felt it was the other position that wanted a talent infusion.

After watching the tape and doing a ton of reading I have seen an athletic freak who teams schemed to control (accoring to scouts in Texas) who was used all over the DL. I am very confortable with him with my caveat for any player barring injury he has an extremely high ceiling and very high floor as well.

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 08:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What the hell is that shit? So sports reporters are now just taking numbers provided from other sources, plugging it into a spread sheet and calling that a "grade"? GTFOH with that lazy ass bullshit. BTW, often times those sources like PFF and the "Consensus" are liable to be suspect at times. PFF can't even fully explain their methodology for grading players in games, the Consensus is comprised of many sources, some of which likely get paid to pump up the rating of certain players.

I can assure you it's not lazy bullshit. He mentions the consensus ranking as just one metric. They use they're own formula to form a grade which is production data, yes some pff data points to see what percentile they fall into, tape grading, age and athletic score testing. 

While yes us being universally near the bottom of draft grading doesn't mean our draft won't work out. It does mean that we have a higher risk of a lower floor in my opinion. He talks about the individual picks as well if you go into the thread.

[Luvnit2]

(11 hours ago)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I can assure you it's not lazy bullshit. He mentions the consensus ranking as just one metric. They use they're own formula to form a grade which is production data, yes some pff data points to see what percentile they fall into, tape grading, age and athletic score testing. 

While yes us being universally near the bottom of draft grading doesn't mean our draft won't work out. It does mean that we have a higher risk of a lower floor in my opinion. He talks about the individual picks as well if you go into the thread.

I think Goodberry is very good at evalauting the cap and cap manipulation, anyone who ranks Stewart 180th best pick loses credibiity immediately. Provide the links to his 2020 and through 2024 for the entire drafts for those years. I want to see if his success rate picking first round picks and if his picks were successful or not.

You have to agree him having Stewart as a 6th round pick is way off course, I did not see one mock he did not go in top 40 picks. He wants us to believe all the experts missed Stewart by at least 140 picks or 4+ rounds. 

[SunsetBengal]

(11 hours ago)CJD Wrote: They provide their own grade as well. So they watch the player, give him a grade, collect their measurables, athletic testing, PFF data, market share production, win rates, stop rates, counting stats etc and weight them all based on how their grades have performed on previous classes.

Their system is obviously not perfect, but they have nailed a few mid round steals that go on to have very successful careers. Examples like Nnamdi Madubuike, Bernhard Rainmann, Travis Jones, Martin Emerson, Trey Smith, Chase Brown, Nick Herbig, Kerby Joseph, Tyrone Tracy, Isaiah Likely, among many others.


I think it's a pretty reasonable system.


If we just followed their board, we would have avoided a lot of our recent busts like Jackson Carman, Zack Carter, Tyler Shelvin etc.

I guess that I just see it from another perspective. As for every one that they hit on, seems like 4 that they miss on. However, it's still using mostly other people's work to present "their own" predictions.

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 09:42 PM)J24 Wrote: If Stewart didn't have is workout numbers would you really be comfortable with drafting him in the first?

That's the only thing he has going for him. Goodberry did rate him as the 180 prospect but he said he expected him to go in the 1st. He also said Tobin was right in his comments about athleticism is more important than production as there have been alot of productive players who tested well but had poor production. But the ceiling is probably limited as there has only been 1 player to make a pro bowl who had similar production to Stewart. 

Goodberry has his scoring system and sticks to it. I think people are ignoring just how bad his tape was in some ways and just how bad his production was. It's not just a lack of sacks he had the lowest TFL production of a drafted DE since 2000. Of actual run stops he's in the 3rd percentile. His pressure rate puts him in the 53rd percentile. So if you are rating a player trying to form a risk assessment it's not going to be high.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think Goodberry is very good at evalauting the cap and cap manipulation, anyone who ranks Stewart 180th best pick loses credibiity immediately. Provide the liks to his 2020 and through 2024 for the entire drafts for those years. I want to see if his success rate picking first round picks and if hs picks were successful or not.

You have to agree him having Stewart as a 6th round pick is way off course, I did not see one mock he did not go in top 40 picks. He wants us to believe all the experts missed Stewart by at least 140 picks or 4+ rounds. 

I just responded to someone else. But he said he expected him to go in the 1st rd. I think his low rank was just them following they're system. His production was bad as well as other metrics. His tape left alot to be desired in many ways although he flashed at times with abilities many players don't have. So his grading is more heavily on what the player is and while you also are judging on athletic testing your not thinking about what skills you think you can coach into them.

[J24]

(11 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: I have no idea how that is relevent, Every player has multiple factors for being drafted. Why would suggest the Bengals ignore it for Stewart? Did the majority of draft pundits have him ranked as a top 32 pick or 1st round grade? Do some have him as a top 10 pick?

The Bengals and Golden felt ge was the guy to help rebuild their defense and a major need since we only had 1 DE under contract next year. As I mentioned earlier, Bengals do not draft 250 to 255 LB. defensive ends. He was the best DE available on their board.

I have also said it was not my 1st choice, I wanted a LB to buid te defense around and wanted Campbell, they did not totally agree with me, but by picking 2 of them and one in round 2, they obviously felt it was the other position that wanted a talent infusion.

After watching the tape and doing a ton of reading I have seen an athletic freak who teams schemed to control (accoring to scouts in Texas) who was used all over the DL. I am very confortable with him with my caveat for any player barring injury he has an extremely high ceiling and very high floor as well.

I take that as a No, he wouldn't have been drafted in the first RD based off film and production. Physical traits are nice and all(shouldn't be ignored either) but production should be the first criteria in drafting players not the size of the prospect.
Shemar wasn't top 10 in any pass rushing stat amongst his draft class. 

Edit he was top 10 in hurries with 33(according to pff) but outside of that he wasn't really productive.

[Soonerpeace]

(Yesterday, 07:59 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The Ravens and Eagles were loaded with number of picks and may not have done as well as some said they did.

KC took a risky injured OT from Ohio State. Simmons may be great, but if he does he will be the first OT in a long time to do great in the NFL.
Their second round pick also has some read flags.

I think our fans refuse to take a critical look at other team's drafts. We could have taken Simmons, how would you have graded it if Bengals took him?

The Steelers needing a QB, did not take one until round 6 or after like 10 QB's were drafted. Our fans woud be jimping off cliffs if we that glaring need at the most important position in football, had 2nd pick in the draft and did not address it until round 6. They can fix it by signing Rogers, but even if they do, didn't they just give Roger's agent the ability to jack up 1 year rental?       

I’m looking at Rene’ Bugner’s compiled grades and those all had A or A-.

[coachmcneil71]

(04-26-2025, 09:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's who your new DC wanted. Not sure trading back to pick up a late rounder is worth the risk. 

I get folks are mad. I'm not sure why, we got some good prospects in positions of need

Agree! Needed edge help and they drafted a top 5 guy at #17. 

Needed LBs with ADG gone, Pratt probably gone ect...They got 2 of the top #10 available backers! 

Needed IOL and they got one plus a Swiss army knife offensive lineman, both may end up starters. Lastly, a young RB with some pop, that has had a lot of touches and doesn't put the ball on the turf.

You guys know that I usually *****, but I can't this time. I like the Knight pick. Makes quick decisions and is very disruptive, much like Stewart. 

As for the "trade back contingent" not saying that I disagree, but it takes a trade partner to pull off such things. Golden just coached up a fairly pedestrian ND LB corps and got them to the NC game. He got his guys! I'm not singing praises from the rooftops about this draft, but it seems pretty damn solid after looking at the pieces that are already in place.