"This Guy Is Violent"- Micah Parsons On Stewart!

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-05-2025, 12:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That tells you what I think of this group and what I think is realistic for them.

15+ may happen, but if so, I think it would break down to:
Best of that group - 7+
2nd best of that group - 5+
3rd in that group - 3+

I am not sure if that happens if they split the same spot between all 3 of them.
One may help spell Hendrickson though, so the 12+ between them may be higher, but I was specifically referring to the LDE spot.

Ahh, gotcha. I was just thinking that, on the year, if Ossai hits 7, that leaves 5 between Murphy and Stewart. If they were to only hit those marks, that would be turrible. Makes more sense from the position though. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-05-2025, 10:42 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I watched Goodberrys analysis on him and I wasnt super impressed by the tape.

Between that and him not testing agility at the combine, I have tempered my expectations.

The good news is that he's going to give more production on the left side than anyone gave us last year...because we got absolutely nothing.

Ossai had 5-6 sacks last year. I doubt Stewart matches that.

In terms of Parsons comparisons, remember, he was a LB at PSU, not a DE. 

I hope Stewart blows up and is fantastic. But his football instincts seem poor. Hard working guys who still seem a bit lost worry me because I think a cause couid be they are not super sharp, despite trying hard. A great work ethic should translate into marked improvement with those physical attributes. This is not a Rudy type situation here. 

He is still young. 21. He did line up narrow or inside a lot. He graded out well vs the run. He does seem well-liked by his teammates & coaches. Team first. No attitude issues or off field flags. There is good clay here. Even if he comes good, I do not expect a ton year 1. He has azways to go. 

But I would have went with a more finished product with a higher floor. Who could help us more immediately. Zabel, Jackson, Starks, Emmanwori, Campbell, even Green or Watts or Johnson.

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-05-2025, 01:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: For anyone who has coached football before, is this something easily coached?
I feel like if it was, we'd see (a lot) more guys with higher production than we do.

ngl, i've never been an NFL coach...but you don't teach someone how to finish. That's up to the player. You can teach them specific moves, you can drill them on how to break down for a tackle but there's no such thing as teaching someone to finish. 

[*ochocincos*]

(05-05-2025, 04:46 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: ngl, i've never been an NFL coach...but you don't teach someone how to finish. That's up to the player. You can teach them specific moves, you can drill them on how to break down for a tackle but there's no such thing as teaching someone to finish. 

About the only things I could think would be:
- How to better get off blocks rather than always trying to lock onto the OL and driving them back
- How to take better paths such that they can get to the QB quicker
- Better approach when hitting the QB such that it's resulting in a turnover or sack rather than them just throwing it away or still hitting a receiver despite being hurried/hit.

You just have to wonder if someone is SO GOOD at getting into the backfield and uber athletic/fast, how is that not translating into sacks, FFs, etc?

Texas A&M only had 25 sacks as a team, so it's not like someone else was getting a ton instead of SS.
Draft picks such as Nic Scourton (5.0) and Shemar Turner (2.0) had more production than SS.
Go back the year prior and Bengals' own McKinnley Jackson had more than SS (3.0 vs 1.5), along with guys like Scourton, Turner, Edge Cooper, and even Walter Nolen before he transferred.
2024 should have been the year for SS to blossom with Cooper and Nolen no longer on the team, but he really didn't.

[KittyKatt]

Jeffery Dahmer was violent, Ed Kemper was violent but sadly, neither one of them could rush the passer either. Bottom line is violence is only part of the complete equation. Hopefully the coaching staff pulled a rabbit out of their hats and found a complete player. That also means the brains with the will to learn and apply the techniques that are being taught by the coaches and Trey to a certain extent and also the film of the greats that he no doubt will be watching.

[Essex Johnson]

(05-05-2025, 03:40 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Ossai had 5-6 sacks last year. I doubt Stewart matches that.

In terms of Parsons comparisons, remember, he was a LB at PSU, not a DE. 

I hope Stewart blows up and is fantastic. But his football instincts seem poor. Hard working guys who still seem a bit lost worry me because I think a cause couid be they are not super sharp, despite trying hard. A great work ethic should translate into marked improvement with those physical attributes. This is not a Rudy type situation here. 

He is still young. 21. He did line up narrow or inside a lot. He graded out well vs the run. He does seem well-liked by his teammates & coaches. Team first. No attitude issues or off field flags. There is good clay here. Even if he comes good, I do not expect a ton year 1. He has azways to go. 

But I would have went with a more finished product with a higher floor. Who could help us more immediately. Zabel, Jackson, Starks, Emmanwori, Campbell, even Green or Watts or Johnson.

I would debate a few of your finished products, for example emmanwori had some red flags on tackling and adjustments for the 17th pick. Green red flags was lack of competition and not a 3 down player..and  no way he is even close to the competition Stewart went up against.  One thing we do know is Stewart is as the top end when it comes to ability something that is impossible to learn.. a major plus as a rookie coming in... he will produce year 1 is my prediction. 

[SunsetBengal]

(05-05-2025, 01:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: For anyone who has coached football before, is this something easily coached?
I feel like if it was, we'd see (a lot) more guys with higher production than we do.

That is a good and worthy point. Breaking long established habits, like staring at the Tackle's feet to get the jump on him are hard ones to break. However, if Stewart is a true professional, he will accept that coaching and bring himself to the next level.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-05-2025, 08:07 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I would debate a few of your finished products, for example emmanwori had some real red flags on tackling and adjustments.. Green red flags was lack of competition, no way he is even close to what Stewart went up against.  One thing we do know is Stewart is as the top end when it comes to ability something that is impossible to learn.. a major plus as a rookie coming in... he will produce year 1 is my prediction. 

Emmanwori's issues were more as a FS, I never figured him to replace Stone. He is purely a SS, nickel LB, slot CB for me. Plus, Stone & Bartle both sucked at tackling as well, so you aren't losing anything there. I'd start him day 1 over Battle. And even if not, as a 3rd down LB next to Wilson. 

As I said, Green (off field), Johnson (injury) are a little riskier (even ....), but I like Jognson's tape better (buy a ton) and Green was good at the Senior Bowl. Watts did not test great but his production is so good I don't care. Full Kyle Hamilton or Brian Branch comp for me. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(05-05-2025, 06:44 PM)KittyKatt Wrote: Jeffery Dahmer was violent, Ed Kemper was violent but sadly, neither one of them could rush the passer either. Bottom line is violence is only part of the complete equation. Hopefully the coaching staff pulled a rabbit out of their hats and found a complete player. That also means the brains with the will to learn and apply the techniques that are being taught by the coaches and Trey to a certain extent and also the film of the greats that he no doubt will be watching.

Well that's an... Interesting first post lol

[Essex Johnson]

(05-05-2025, 08:26 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Emmanwori's issues were more as a FS, I never figured him to replace Stone. He is purely a SS, nickel LB, slot CB for me. Plus, Stone & Bartle both sucked at tackling as well, so you aren't losing anything there. I'd start him day 1 over Battle. And even if not, as a 3rd down LB next to Wilson. 

As I said, Green (off field), Johnson (injury) are a little riskier (even ....), but I like Jognson's tape better (buy a ton) and Green was good at the Senior Bowl. Watts did not test great but his production is so good I don't care. Full Kyle Hamilton or Brian Branch comp for me. 

Stewart also benefited from Senior bowl, the one real with he separates from other edge rushers is this atheltic ability and a plus is he is a 3 down edge player .

[NUGDUKWE]

I hope Stewart does well. But taking a guy with his low level of production feels like taking someone in the 1st and having them switch positions. I'd rather not have taken someone that we have to hope they aren't what they were in college.

[Luvnit2]

(05-05-2025, 08:26 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Emmanwori's issues were more as a FS, I never figured him to replace Stone. He is purely a SS, nickel LB, slot CB for me. Plus, Stone & Bartle both sucked at tackling as well, so you aren't losing anything there. I'd start him day 1 over Battle. And even if not, as a 3rd down LB next to Wilson. 

As I said, Green (off field), Johnson (injury) are a little riskier (even ....), but I like Jognson's tape better (buy a ton) and Green was good at the Senior Bowl. Watts did not test great but his production is so good I don't care. Full Kyle Hamilton or Brian Branch comp for me. 

I thought I read Stewart was a wrecking ball at senior bowl (think it was this bowl) practices. He left before the game, but sounded like he was best DL there during practice sessions.

[Luvnit2]

(05-05-2025, 09:04 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I hope Stewart does well. But taking a guy with his low level of production feels like taking someone in the 1st and having them switch positions. I'd rather not have taken someone that we have to hope they aren't what they were in college.

I believe in moving forward as we can't change the decision to draft Stewart now.

But, I ask my fellow board members, if Bengals had drafted Green and then Steelers get to draft Stewart, would you say they made a huge mistake. Or would say, crap just one the Steelers needs, another athlectic freak to go after JB.

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-05-2025, 09:22 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I thought I read Stewart was a wrecking ball at senior bowl (think it was this bowl) practices. He left before the game, but sounded like he was best DL there during practice sessions.

Not to diminish anytihng he did there, but that was pretty much a continuation of his game. Athletic, quick, able to beat the T but there's no QB standing back there. Just drills to show your get off, moves, balance, etc. 

The key is going to be, how well does he actually get to the QB and more importantly, how well does he get them on the ground or hit them. 

I've mentioned Dunalp before. He was the OG 'almost sack' leader. If SS can have the type of career that Dunalp did, that would be a +. Being a 1st rd pick, if he could do better then you're talking ++. 

[SunsetBengal]

(05-05-2025, 08:26 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Emmanwori's issues were more as a FS, I never figured him to replace Stone. He is purely a SS, nickel LB, slot CB for me. Plus, Stone & Bartle both sucked at tackling as well, so you aren't losing anything there. I'd start him day 1 over Battle. And even if not, as a 3rd down LB next to Wilson. 

As I said, Green (off field), Johnson (injury) are a little riskier (even ....), but I like Jognson's tape better (buy a ton) and Green was good at the Senior Bowl. Watts did not test great but his production is so good I don't care. Full Kyle Hamilton or Brian Branch comp for me. 

Hmm, can't agree with you there. He's just as comfortable and efficient on the back end as he is up front. In fact, his long limbed ability to cover massive amounts of ground rapidly actually might make him more valuable on the back end.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

We still need to sign Trey, and can't imagine why we are not. Stewart should replace Hubbard. If Stewart works out, that'll be an opposing QB's worst nightmare of having to worry about both of them.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-07-2025, 07:35 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: We still need to sign Trey, and can't imagine why we are not.  Stewart should replace Hubbard.  If Stewart works out, that'll be an opposing QB's worst nightmare of having to worry about both of them.

From the comments made by coaches and his experience at A&M, I think we think he can play inside some. At least on passing downs. Heck, Ossai did last year. And Sample did prior.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-05-2025, 10:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hmm, can't agree with you there. He's just as comfortable and efficient on the back end as he is up front. In fact, his long limbed ability to cover massive amounts of ground rapidly actually might make him more valuable on the back end.

Fair enough. 

For me it is processing/recognition and just feeling that a guy that big at FS is a waste. 

Water undercthe bridge now, though.

[Essex Johnson]

(05-05-2025, 08:26 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Emmanwori's issues were more as a FS, I never figured him to replace Stone. He is purely a SS, nickel LB, slot CB for me. Plus, Stone & Bartle both sucked at tackling as well, so you aren't losing anything there. I'd start him day 1 over Battle. And even if not, as a 3rd down LB next to Wilson. 

As I said, Green (off field), Johnson (injury) are a little riskier (even ....), but I like Jognson's tape better (buy a ton) and Green was good at the Senior Bowl. Watts did not test great but his production is so good I don't care. Full Kyle Hamilton or Brian Branch comp for me. 

Emmanawori i did not see teams taking that high and it seems the nfl teams felt same way   as he ended up being in 2nd round plus Edge to me was rhe pick we needed at 17 and glad we drafted one over safery     

[Sled21]

(05-05-2025, 05:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: About the only things I could think would be:
- How to better get off blocks rather than always trying to lock onto the OL and driving them back
- How to take better paths such that they can get to the QB quicker
- Better approach when hitting the QB such that it's resulting in a turnover or sack rather than them just throwing it away or still hitting a receiver despite being hurried/hit.

You just have to wonder if someone is SO GOOD at getting into the backfield and uber athletic/fast, how is that not translating into sacks, FFs, etc?

Texas A&M only had 25 sacks as a team, so it's not like someone else was getting a ton instead of SS.
Draft picks such as Nic Scourton (5.0) and Shemar Turner (2.0) had more production than SS.
Go back the year prior and Bengals' own McKinnley Jackson had more than SS (3.0 vs 1.5), along with guys like Scourton, Turner, Edge Cooper, and even Walter Nolen before he transferred.
2024 should have been the year for SS to blossom with Cooper and Nolen no longer on the team, but he really didn't.

I didn't watch much, if any, A&M football last year. Who was the other DE? If that player was not capable of getting into the backfield quickly and allowed the QB to constantly slide to that side, that might explain the lack of sacks. They won't be able to run away from Stewart with Hendrickson as RE. Whether or not Stewart gets home, he's going to be in the QB's face from the left DE and Hendrickson will be coming from the right. Add in a hopefully improved pass rush from Jenkins Jr. and I expect much better results this year.