Trade Andy to Browns for their #2 pick

[StLucieBengal]

(01-13-2016, 10:53 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Cleveland is looking south to Columbus with the mistaken belief that Cardale Jones is their long term answer at quarterback.  I can't see Hue Jackson going for that!  

Dear lord I hope so lol

If hue gets stuck with that then I will feel bad for him. But you reap what you sow I guess

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-13-2016, 09:13 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Protected Andy?

I'm sorry but this is absurd. No one protected Andy, and we were throwing it all over the field. Throwing bombs down the perimeter is not protecting your QB.

Protecting a QB is what the Ravens did with Mallet.. not Andy.

If anything, Marvin's refusal to score in the second half with a lead hurt Dalton's numbers.

Russell Wilson had 5 TD in a game against the Ravens the Seahawks won 35-6. The Bengals offense under Lewis would have long since called it a day at 21-6 (if not 14-6) in the second half.

The Bengals slung it around with Dalton, they just didn't crush anyone. So rather than protect, it'd be more like.. hinder?

[brian5562]

The Bengals scored 30 or more points in 7 games with Dalton this season. Not overly conservative

[Who Dey Time]

People need to write this down and memorize it.....

The Bengals are not trading a QB to Cleveland or any other city where professional football is played. Andy, our legitimate MVP candidate from 2015, will return as the starter and AJ will resume his role as a capable backup.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-13-2016, 11:14 PM)brian5562 Wrote: The Bengals scored 30 or more points in 7 games with Dalton this season. Not overly conservative

It's not that they didn't score, it's just that when other QBs who have been MVPs in the past crushed a team, they really crushed them, adding to their stats. It's how they separated themselves as MVP.

Manning didn't get MVP in 2013 because they were kind to their opponents feelings. They scored 40+ points 6 times, 50+ 3 times. There's no reason the Bengals can't do that other than Marvin Lewis.

The Bengals always have a habit under Lewis to get a halftime lead, then taking the foot off the throttle to be nice to the opposing team, who promptly gets back in it and makes the game was closer and nervewracking than it ever needed to be.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-13-2016, 08:20 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: After what he's shown, I think they could get a 1st round.

would that be in the supplemental draft...

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-13-2016, 11:00 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Dear lord I hope so lol

If hue gets stuck with that then I will feel bad for him.   But you reap what you sow I guess

It all depends on how much input Hue Jackson will have in Cleveland.  I have no idea what Jimmy Haslam is like to deal with nor do I know how this baseball guy they hired will treat Hue.  If Hue gets power over the draft, look out!  Cleveland might make some smart moves.  If Hue is reading this I suggest he hire Paul Alexander as his offensive line coach.

[GreenCornBengal]

(01-13-2016, 11:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It's not that they didn't score, it's just that when other QBs who have been MVPs in the past crushed a team, they really crushed them, adding to their stats. It's how they separated themselves as MVP.

Manning didn't get MVP in 2013 because they were kind to their opponents feelings. They scored 40+ points 6 times, 50+ 3 times. There's no reason the Bengals can't do that other than Marvin Lewis.

The Bengals always have a habit under Lewis to get a halftime lead, then taking the foot off the throttle to be nice to the opposing team, who promptly gets back in it and makes the game was closer and nervewracking than it ever needed to be.

but but but.... turnovers! There could be turnovers if we tried in the 2nd half! (Marvin logic)

[Sovereign Nation]

(01-13-2016, 10:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I know people think Hue is an idiot for that Carson trade, but Carson was a proven commodity and Hue was in a desperate situation. McCarron isn't on Palmer's level and Hue isn't fighting for a playoff spot with an injured starting QB. I'd say there's almost zero chance that McCarron would garner a 1st round pick + a conditional 2nd. Heck, I have my doubts that any team will come calling with a 2nd, but at least that's realistic.

Honestly, I think Hue being in the division makes a trade of McCarron less likely. 

I can't argue that.  You are correct.  Though you never know in today's NFL.

I try to think if I were the one running things or had a say in them anyway for Cleveland.

So I am Hue Jackson...

What do I need? 

1st and for most a QB.  A good QB is not so easily obtained in today's NFL.  Drafting one is risky.  Pulling in a FA is usually as a stop gap and not a long term answer.  Some QBs that I would be looking at are

RGIII
Tebow (yes, Tebow, I know how some view him, but I think in the right system, he could be a winner)
Sam Bradford (though with him I have some concerns with durability and shell shockedness)

and of course the Bengal killer is on the market (TJ Yates).

However, I don't think any of those would be a long term solution.  If I am the HC, especially for a team like the Browns, I am looking for immediate success so that I can have long term status.

So going through the draft, I don't see anyone that I think will bring me the success I would need to stay, almost every HC in Cleveland has drafted a QB and they are all gone.  So I think outside the box.

I could draft players for draft picks, but that doesn't help me with my current need of a QB.  Do I have any players that would fetch me a QB?  What would be the cost of trading those players away?  Joe Haden is the best CB they have, would it be worth trading him away for a QB?  Sure, but then who do they put on AJ Green?  Alex Mack?  Then who do I get to protect the QB?

No if I were to make a trade, it would be a draft pick for a QB. 

Zach Mettenburger
Jimmy Garrapolo
Geno Smith
AJ McCarron

Out of those 4 AJM is the only one that Hue has worked with.  He has already worked in my system and I feel like he gives me the best chance at short term and long term success.

So what does Hue have for compensation?  He has the 2nd pick in the draft and that could be enticing just by itself.  I know it would be for me.  He could start low and offer a 3rd rounder for him, however nobody negotiates like Mike Brown, so he will have to raise the stakes a bit in order to get AJM.  If it were me and Brown told me that it would take nothing less than a 1st rounder and a conditional 2nd rounder, then I would pull the trigger.  After all, what do I really have to lose?  If the team has a losing record, I am more likely fired.  So might as well bet the farm for a QB that I know I can win with.

[*Nately120*]

(01-13-2016, 10:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I know people think Hue is an idiot for that Carson trade, but Carson was a proven commodity and Hue was in a desperate situation. McCarron isn't on Palmer's level and Hue isn't fighting for a playoff spot with an injured starting QB. I'd say there's almost zero chance that McCarron would garner a 1st round pick + a conditional 2nd. Heck, I have my doubts that any team will come calling with a 2nd, but at least that's realistic.

Honestly, I think Hue being in the division makes a trade of McCarron less likely. 

Hue overpaid for Carson by a mile, but they were one Bears RB running out of bounds when he didn't have to away from hosting the Ravens in a playoff game in 2011.  After that the Raiders canned Hue (who got decent performances out of Campbell, Boller, rusty Palmer, a backup RB, and WRs no one heard of) and hired a crap HC who brought a crap OC.  Sure, they gave up a 1st and 2nd for Palmer, but he played a season and a half, and once Carson left they used 3 QBs and spent about 15 million bucks to start a single game, lose it, and throw 0 TDs.

So....Hue trades a 1 and 2 for Palmer while he is replaced finally by Carr after the Raiders spend a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and a 2nd.

[Utts]

(01-13-2016, 07:55 PM)BengalRed Wrote: Sorry if this idea has already been presented. I haven't read all the threads. Andy and Hue are a team and you know Hue would love to have Andy. I think over time AJ could be as good or even better than Andy. Just a thought.

Why would you help the Browns dig out of the hole they are in? Not to mention we have no idea how good AJ really is.

[tlotharw]

(01-13-2016, 07:58 PM)hitchopottimus Wrote: You want to mortgage our present, waste AJ Green's prime developing a new QB for a second round pick? A second round pick? For a guy who, if not for the injury, likely would have gotten MVP votes? Is this a troll thread?

AJ's only playoff touchdown in his career was thrown by AJ.

[wolfkaosaun]

Nope.

And for those saying to trade McCarron for their 2nd round pick, there's MUCH better QBs in this draft than McCarron. Even outside the 1st round.

[Rhinocero23]

(01-14-2016, 01:54 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Nope.

And for those saying to trade McCarron for their 2nd round pick, there's MUCH better QBs in this draft than McCarron. Even outside the 1st round.

And if Hue wanted AD he could have just stayed here

Report: Bengals' Lewis proposed succession plan as last-ditch effort to keep Jackson 

http://www.thescore.com/news/935425

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-14-2016, 02:01 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: And if Hue wanted AD he could have just stayed here

Report: Bengals' Lewis proposed succession plan as last-ditch effort to keep Jackson 

http://www.thescore.com/news/935425

They said the same thing to Zimmer after 2013.
Zimmer left in 2013.
Yet Marvin will be here in 2016.

Could be the fact that they haven't seen internal change. Plus, does Marvin have a say in personnel and coaches?

Because if not, that may be why Hue also left.

Either way. I wish Hue luck except when he plays the Bengals.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-14-2016, 01:35 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Hue overpaid for Carson by a mile, but they were one Bears RB running out of bounds when he didn't have to away from hosting the Ravens in a playoff game in 2011.  After that the Raiders canned Hue (who got decent performances out of Campbell, Boller, rusty Palmer, a backup RB, and WRs no one heard of) and hired a crap HC who brought a crap OC.  Sure, they gave up a 1st and 2nd for Palmer, but he played a season and a half, and once Carson left they used 3 QBs and spent about 15 million bucks to start a single game, lose it, and throw 0 TDs.

So....Hue trades a 1 and 2 for Palmer while he is replaced finally by Carr after the Raiders spend a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and a 2nd.

I know I'm in the minority on this (heck, maybe I'm alone on this), but I don't think he did. At least not by as much as people think. The problem when people judge that trade is that they view it as a flop because Carson didn't lead them to the playoffs that year. Thing is, I'm sure Hue didn't push that trade with 1 year in mind. Who knows how things would've turned out had Oakland kept Hue and Carson? For that reason, I don't think Hue was an idiot to offer what he did. Look at Carson now. 

How much is 7+ years of stability at the QB position worth? I'd say a lot. That's probably what Hue envisioned when he made that trade. That post-season press conference is what made the trade look so bad in hindsight, because it basically punched Hue and (eventually) Carson's tickets out of town.

[The Real Deal]

(01-13-2016, 07:55 PM)BengalRed Wrote: Sorry if this idea has already been presented. I haven't read all the threads. Andy and Hue are a team and you know Hue would love to have Andy. I think over time AJ could be as good or even better than Andy. Just a thought.

I know I'm late to this party but this is classic! 

Moderators, I think there should be some sort of thread hall of fame and this one needs inducted.

[BFritz21]

Dalton was one of the best quarterbacks in the league this season pre-injury, and you'd like to trade him away so we can start a guy that's still unproven.

McCarron also doesn't have the arm that Andy does, even if he could perform big in the clutch, which, as of right now, he hasn't done any better than Andy.

Use your head here....... you don't trade away your general at the top of his game.

Now, if you think that we should trade McCarron to them and see if we can maybe get a deal where we give them McCarron and a 6th or so for their second-round pick, then you might be on to something.

[*Nately120*]

(01-14-2016, 02:14 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I know I'm in the minority on this (heck, maybe I'm alone on this), but I don't think he did. At least not by as much as people think. The problem when people judge that trade is that they view it as a flop because Carson didn't lead them to the playoffs that year. Thing is, I'm sure Hue didn't push that trade with 1 year in mind. Who knows how things would've turned out had Oakland kept Hue and Carson? For that reason, I don't think Hue was an idiot to offer what he did. Look at Carson now. 

How much is 7+ years of stability at the QB position worth? I'd say a lot. That's probably what Hue envisioned when he made that trade. That post-season press conference is what made the trade look so bad in hindsight, because it basically punched Hue and (eventually) Carson's tickets out of town.

Good enough points.  You figure the Cardinals got him 2 years later and are looking at having him as the starter from 2013-2017 or onward.

[magikod]

I'd rather keep Dalton.

This QB class this year, like many of the recent drafts isn't that good.

Why trade Dalton in his prime? If he didn't break his thumb this year we would still be in the playoffs and he could have very easily won the MVP award.