Why hasn't Paul Alexander been interviewed for HC?

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-18-2016, 11:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: OMG I am going to use really big letters because it makes what I say so much more true.

Lets fire Alexander and hire that guy who makes every draft choice he gets a All Pro ever year, and whose team never gives up any sacks and whose running backs lead the league in rushing every year!!!!!  Anything less than that is complete garbage.

And lets get someone who can not play the piano or do math or read because that stuff is for sissies.

Yea you are right change is scary. There is no way anyone else in the world could accomplish what the paino man has in his short time here. We would probably be a total train wreck if it werent for his greatness. Heck lets not forget he is our last remaining coaching connection to the glorious pre marvin years. How silly of me to imagine we could possibly upgrade the soft spoken piano playing fatty who has teams beating down his door every year trying to hire him away from us because he is such a great teacher and motivator of men. 

I could see if Marvin was getting a lot of assistant coaches job promotions around the league. Maybe a lot of my displeasure with the piano man would be justified. But I was wrong to jump to conclusions. Lets give him another 20 years and then maybe somebody else will spot his talent and be wise enough to give him a promotion.

[Wes Mantooth]

Alright,Fred, here you go. I ran the numbers on starting OG's, although I did just the AFC, as it's rather time consuming. FYI, for undrafted players I assigned a draft position of 272, which is basically the 16th pick of the 8th round. I figured this would be a fair representation. You could move this up or down (257 would be the top of the 8th) but it wouldn't change much average wise. (There were 3 of them.) I simply took the draft position from the two players atop ESPN's current depth charts:

Bengals - 55, 101
Browns - 35, 65
Ravens -60, 86
Steelers - 272, 24
Dolphins - 77, 67
Patriots - 272, 272
Bills - 81, 81
Jets - 25, 72
Jags - 45, 93
Colts - 59, 126
Titans - 51, 10
Texans -99, 76
Broncos - 79, 78
Chargers - 46, 11
Chiefs - 29, 200
Raiders - 81, 52

-The average draft positon for the starting guards in the AFC is (drumroll).....86.875. Which would have been the 23rd pick in the 3rd round last year (bottom of the round).

-Clint Boling was selected with the 101st pick. Only 14 picks later than the current average. (Not even a half of a round)

-Of the 32 starting guards in the AFC, 16 were selected in the 3rd round or later. (50%)

-7 of the 16 teams have an average draft position lower than that of the Bengals. (44%)

So I'm not sure what more you need, Fred. Is it really necessary for me to further embarrass you by doing the NFC?

Please, explain to all of us again why having a guy selected with the 101 pick is such an accomplishment? What is so special about that?

And like I always ask, if a team drafted nothing but 7th round guards would it still be impressive if the OL coach turned them into starters? I mean someone has to start, right? Would it not be better to, you know, just judge them on their play? Because everything I just wrote says that there is nothing all that unordinary about Clint Boling starting. And I would guess much of the desperate examples you hold in Paul's favor (Nate Livings, Evan Mathis) could be just as easily dismissed with a little research.

Oh well, at least I silenced this one. Please, move on to something else now.

PS: Deez

[Wes Mantooth]

tl:dr

-The average draft position for the starting guards in the AFC is (drumroll).....86.875. Which would have been the 23rd pick in the 3rd round last year (bottom of the round).

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2016, 01:01 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Bengals - 55, 101

Total fail right off the bat.

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2016, 01:01 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Patriots - 272, 272

More fail

Shaq Mason.....131
Tre Jackson......111

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-19-2016, 01:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Total fail right off the bat.

Oops, I must have accidentally clicked on and plugged in Whit there.  Sorry, with Zeitler it's 27.  Doesn't do a whole lot. (55-27/16)  Average is now 85.125.

Now, I'd be curious to see if this changes your argument.  Hell, you massage all those numbers you want.  You can account for a crazy amount of input error, move up the undrafted error, whatever the hell you want.  You're still going to be left with a middle to late 3rd round average.

Go ahead, debate it.  I'm sure everyone is on pins and needles waiting to see your argument about why turning a player taken with the 101st  pick is an accomplishment in and of itself, when the league is littered with guys who start taken in the 70, 80, 90, 100's, all the way up to the low 200's.

Next you'll tell us that a running back who hits 800 yards is the 2nd coming of Walter Payton, or a coach who wins 9 games is Vince Lombardi reincarnated.  I mean God damn, we've got ourselves all sorts of elite levelness and coaching miracles.  We've got 4th round guards starting for Christ sakes!!!!  Golly, what's next?  And undrafted kicker making a 40 yarder?!?!?!?!  

[BengalChris]

(01-16-2016, 06:15 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: How often are OL coaches moved up to HC?  

And maybe he isn't that interested.  OL coaches are a different breed.

Art Shell is the one that comes to mind for me. So probably not all that many.

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2016, 01:01 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Oh well, at least I silenced this one. 

You silenced nothing.  You are comparing a bunch of scrubs to a guy who just got over $5 million a year in free agency.  Boling is not just an average starter.  He is considered one of the better young OGs in the league.

Plus your numbers are garbage.

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2016, 01:01 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Bengals - 55, 101
Browns - 35, 65
Ravens -60, 86
Steelers - 272, 24
Dolphins - 77, 67
Patriots - 272, 272
Bills - 81, 81
Jets - 25, 72
Jags - 45, 93
Colts - 59, 126
Titans - 51, 10
Texans -99, 76
Broncos - 79, 78
Chargers - 46, 11
Chiefs - 29, 200
Raiders - 81, 52

26 of 32 (over 80%) were drafted higher than Boling

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-19-2016, 01:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: More fail

Shaq Mason.....131
Tre Jackson......111

Ryan Wendell was on top of the Pats depth chart on ESPN's page, and he was undrafted.  The other starting guard is Josh Kline, who was ahead of Shaq Mason all year.

Regardless of whether on not ESPN's is currently updated, Wendell is a team captain and was atop the depth chart the majority of the season, and only went out due to injury.  Kline started every game through week 14.

Like, I just said, you can split hairs all you want.  Everyone knows this is what you do.  We're now arguing over bullshit, rather than you just address the point, which remains unchanged.

Go ahead and account for all this stupid shit you'll waste everyone time's with, and bump it a full 10 spots. You're still left with a mid third round average.  Bump it up a whole 20 spots.  You're still left with a 3rd round average, which is what I predicted to begin with.

Taking a guy a half round later or a full rounder later than average is not some huge accomplishment.  End of story.  Now debate that or shut the **** up.

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-19-2016, 02:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Plus your numbers are garbage.

They're not garbage at all. 

You take a guy like Shaq Mason, who started 2 regular season games, only because a guy like Wendell, who started 14, got hurt.  And then you act like I'm the one pulling bullshit.  Go to ESPN.com and see who they list at the top.  Go look up their team captains.

Oh, and just so we're clear, Shaq Mason WAS TAKING 30 SPOTS LOWER THAN CLINT BOLING!  It's not like he's helping your cause.  And neither is Tre Jackson, who was 10 spots lower.  Even the replacements you're using still lead credence to the fact that it's not at all uncommon for 4th rounders to start.

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2016, 02:15 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Taking a guy a half round later or a full rounder later than average is not some huge accomplishment.  End of story.  Now debate that or shut the **** up.

Taking a guy drafted among the bottom of all starting AFC OGs (27th of 32) and turning him into one of the best is a big accomplishment.  There is no way you can deny this.

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-19-2016, 02:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: 26 of 32 (over 80%) were drafted higher than Boling

And 12 of the 32 (38%) were draft within one round (32 picks)of Boling.

We can do this all day.  The fact remains the average of all them is a third rounder.  The fact is there are more than half of them came after pick 60.  The fact is you're going to look stupid if you continue to try hold up the fact he starts and his draft position alone as a coaching accomplishment.

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-19-2016, 02:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Taking a guy drafted among the bottom of all starting AFC OGs (27th of 32) and turning him into one of the best is a big accomplishment.  There is no way you can deny this.

Then make that your argument.  Lazily holding this idea that because he has 4th round guard who starts he must be doing well is pure nonsense.  That alone does nothing to make your case.  So maybe try harder supporting your stance.

And half those guys are all pretty close, and that bottom takes a huge dive.  The bottom 5 average out well under 200.  5-27 probably averages around 60-70 (totally off the top of my head, you do the math).  Is he in the top 5?  Make your case.  If not, it sure looks like a clusterfuck of guards who were taken in the late 2nd to 4th, which is all pretty close.  Factor in team needs, strength of draft for position, etc and it's easy to see why an equally skilled OG can go 67 in one draft and 97 in another.

Is he that much better than his draft position?  Is he really?  Ok, who are his peers in your opinion?  3 guys ahead of him, and the 3 guys behind him... or just give a list of 4-6 guys that are of a similar skillset.  Let's look at their draft positions.  Cuz I'm guessing he's not going to stand out like a sore thumb.

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2016, 02:21 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: They're not garbage at all. 

You take a guy like Shaq Mason, who started 2 regular season games, only because a guy like Wendell, who started 14, got hurt.  And then you act like I'm the one pulling bullshit.  Go to ESPN.com and see who they list at the top.  Go look up their team captains.

Shaq Mason started 10 games this year and played over 50% of the offensive snaps in 12 games.

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2016, 02:40 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Then make that your argument.  Lazily holding this idea that because he has 4th round guard who starts he must be doing well is pure nonsense.

No it is not complete nonsense.  If it was then you would not have to bend the rules and make all of your claims about THIRD round picks and then claim there is no difference between the third and fourth round.

The fact is that over 80% of the starting guards in the AFC were drafted higher than Boling. And that does not even take into account that Boling is not just an average starter.  He is one of the better OGs in the league. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-19-2016, 02:06 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Art Shell is the one that comes to mind for me. So probably not all that many.

Mike Munchack

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

BTW.....no one is making fun of the guy because he plays piano. It's a moniker bestowed upon him because that's the only REAL talent he has......other than Son of Paul's favorite yes man apparently.....

[magikod]

Who would want a OL coach as your HC?

I wouldn't even want him as a OC most likely...

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2016, 03:20 AM)Wyche Wrote: BTW.....no one is making fun of the guy because he plays piano.  It's a moniker bestowed upon him because that's the only REAL talent he has......other than Son of Paul's favorite yes man apparently.....

And coaching the best pass protecting O-line in the entire league over the last 8 years (according to PFF)