Who to tag?

[Bengal Dude]

(01-26-2016, 01:59 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Surprised no one is talking about getting Eifert extended this season. Philly did us no favors by giving Ertz a stupid deal for a mediocre Tight End.

Honestly, the Ertz deal helped a little bit. Ertz is getting $8.5 million. Gronk is getting $9 million. There's the floor and ceiling.

[fredtoast]

(01-26-2016, 04:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Hopefully next year Eifert can start 16 games, so I would feel better about the Bengals giving him a deal before his 5th year option comes into play. If he misses another 3-5 games, it starts getting tricky though. The closest he's come to a full season is his rookie year when he started 15, but he wasn't playing a full workload of snaps in those 15 games. (In 2013, Eifert played only 59.5% of the snaps despite starting 15 games.)

So at that point, do you pay him big TE money based on potential of if he could stay healthy for a full starters workload, or do you try to pay him with that injury risk included and risk losing him to FA?

We don't agree on much, but I definitely want to see how many games Eifert play next year before we give hima big contract.  If he misses any substantial amounts of time then you have to consider him "injury prone".  I know some injuries are unavoidable, but for some reason certain players get hurt a lot more often than others.

[Bengal Dude]

(01-26-2016, 05:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I know some injuries are unavoidable, but for some reason certain players get hurt a lot more than more often than others.

[Hammerstripes]

With the cap space, there should be no need to tag anyone. I was hoping the front office would get some of these guys under contract before they hit free agency.

[Bengal Dude]

(01-26-2016, 06:28 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: With the cap space, there should be no need to tag anyone.  I was hoping the front office would get some of these guys under contract before they hit free agency.

Well they tried to extend Iloka and Zeitler during training camp.

[coachmcneil71]

(01-26-2016, 03:29 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I don't think Hue would consider him a number one receiver.  Hue knows very well that Jones benefited by playing across from AJ Green. I would like to think that Hue is smart enough, and is going to have enough input into personnel decisions, that Cleveland will not continue to make some of the same mistakes they have been known for.

 I don't disagree with you per say. I suppose the point that I was trying to make is on that roster the way it stands presently he would probably be considered their top WR if he went there. Gordon is a beast but can he be trusted? Benjamin should and probably will be awarded with a new contract perhaps negating the possibility of MJ going North. Hawkins and Hartline while serviceable clearly neither have the skill set to be a #1 WR.

[OrlandoBengal]

(01-26-2016, 04:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Hopefully next year Eifert can start 16 games, so I would feel better about the Bengals giving him a deal before his 5th year option comes into play. If he misses another 3-5 games, it starts getting tricky though. The closest he's come to a full season is his rookie year when he started 15, but he wasn't playing a full workload of snaps in those 15 games. (In 2013, Eifert played only 59.5% of the snaps despite starting 15 games.)

So at that point, do you pay him big TE money based on potential of if he could stay healthy for a full starters workload, or do you try to pay him with that injury risk included and risk losing him to FA?

Add me to the list of those who would like to see if he can stay healthy for an entire year.  I just looked up Gronk because I know he has had a lot of injury issues as well.  He played in every game his first two seasons, then got the big deal going into 2012.  Between 2012-2013 he only played in 18 games, and has missed one game each of the last two seasons.  Gronk put up over 1300 yards in 2012 before he got the deal, Eifert has a total of 1100 in his career.

I definitely think you wait.  You hope he stays healthy for the entire year, and then negotiate before the fifth year option kicks in.  If he misses time... I'm not sure what I would do.

[CJD]

I'd tag Iloka if required.

I'd prefer we just re-sign him though.

[M.W.]

I wouldn't tag anyone. If they won't sign a fair contract to stay replace them.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-25-2016, 05:34 PM)jason Wrote: Why does everybody think the Browns are chomping at the bit to overpay Marvin Jones?  They already have a #2 in Travis Benjamin.

The Browns are fine at WR, all of their guys were injured.

They have Gordon, Benjamin, Hawkins, Hartline and Barnidge who can also play WR.

They are stacked there and MLJ would be a stupid move for them to pay him that much for a #2.

To the OP, we need to bring back Iloka for sure. He should be the #1 priority.

After that...

MLJ, Adam, Nelson, Sanu, etc.

[*wildcats forever*]

(01-26-2016, 05:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We don't agree on much, but I definitely want to see how many games Eifert play next year before we give hima big contract.  If he misses any substantial amounts of time then you have to consider him "injury prone".  I know some injuries are unavoidable, but for some reason certain players get hurt a lot more often than others.

Please excuse for stating the obvious here, but with how prolific Eifert's production has become, it's as if he has a target on his back with every snap. That alone will up the odds of increased injuries. It seems like it's the nature of the beast, as it seems we have have a lot of injuries to the TE spot historically. I think you gotta be an extraordinary tough sob to withstand the punishment that comes with being a Bengal TE.

[Shake n Blake]

I expect MLJ to get a contract similar to the one signed by Emmanuel Sanders with Denver (3 years, 15 million). Very similar production and situations.

Btw, I find it funny that some people question extending Eifert due to health issues, but no one is asking the same questions about MLJ, who has missed 21 games in 4 seasons. Does anyone regret extending Burfict, seeing how he's only missed 2 fewer games than Eifert in the same time frame? It's funny how Burfict is perceived as a warrior and Eifert - playing one of the most grueling positions in the NFL - is perceived as a "glass jaw". 

[XenoMorph]

(01-25-2016, 12:36 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: If Josh Gordon is back, MLJ will be #3 in Cle, behind Gordon and Barnidge.

How long do you expect mr gordon to be in the league before hes out of it?

i think he has spent more time suspended than on the field at this point

[OrlandoBengal]

(01-27-2016, 04:35 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I expect MLJ to get a contract similar to the one signed by Emmanuel Sanders with Denver (3 years, 15 million). Very similar production and situations.

Btw, I find it funny that some people question extending Eifert due to health issues, but no one is asking the same questions about MLJ, who has missed 21 games in 4 seasons. Does anyone regret extending Burfict, seeing how he's only missed 2 fewer games than Eifert in the same time frame? It's funny how Burfict is perceived as a warrior and Eifert - playing one of the most grueling positions in the NFL - is perceived as a "glass jaw". 

I personally think both the knee and the concussions are big concerns with Burfict, but he got his extension before the injuries started piling up.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-27-2016, 06:02 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I personally think both the knee and the concussions are big concerns with Burfict, but he got his extension before the injuries started piling up.

If you could have a mulligan there, would you still sign him though? I would. He's too integral to our defense. Much like Eifert is an integral part of the offense.

And fwiw, I don't think Burfict's injuries are discussed nearly as often as Eifert's on here. An Eifert discussion doesn't happen without someone bringing up injuries.

[Bengal Dude]

(01-27-2016, 06:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If you could have a mulligan there, would you still sign him though? I would. He's too integral to our defense. Much like Eifert is an integral part of the offense.

And fwiw, I don't think Burfict's injuries are discussed nearly as often as Eifert's on here. An Eifert discussion doesn't happen without someone bringing up injuries.

Would I still sign Burfict? Absolutely.

Yes the guy is a dirty player, but our defense just looks different when he's in there. Players seem to elevate their game when he's on the field. We haven't had that since Spikes was here.

[XenoMorph]

(01-27-2016, 06:02 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I personally think both the knee and the concussions are big concerns with Burfict, but he got his extension before the injuries started piling up.

concussions yes the knee looks to be recovered and thats hopefully a one time deal

as Far as Who to Tag... I would go with Adam Jones....

Based on the following
We never sign those who are tagged to long term deals it seems they are generally a 1 year rental. Adam is getting a little older. And was really good this year. I think 1 more year of that caliber football would be worth the $$$$ and it helps adam out with his finances as well.

Focus on getting Iloka's deal done asap... so thats an option. Cause i dont wanna see Iloka tagged then go away.

The only person i can remember signing long term after getting the tag was nugent.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-27-2016, 04:35 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I expect MLJ to get a contract similar to the one signed by Emmanuel Sanders with Denver (3 years, 15 million). Very similar production and situations.

Btw, I find it funny that some people question extending Eifert due to health issues, but no one is asking the same questions about MLJ, who has missed 21 games in 4 seasons. Does anyone regret extending Burfict, seeing how he's only missed 2 fewer games than Eifert in the same time frame? It's funny how Burfict is perceived as a warrior and Eifert - playing one of the most grueling positions in the NFL - is perceived as a "glass jaw". 

I'd like to point out I most certainly did question about Marvin Jones' injury history a couple times earlier in the thread.

That said, looking at Burfict vs Eifert, I guess it comes down to the fact that we've seen Burfict reach the the top level of play already so we know he's fully capable of doing so. We've seen Burfict play in 16 games twice already, Eifert has never done it.

Burfict played 82.9% of the defensive snaps his rookie year and then kicked it up to 95.9% (and 2nd team All-Pro) in his second year before getting hurt in his third year with only 19.3%.

Eifert was banged up his rookie year and played 59.5% of the offensive snaps. and followed it up with 0.8% in his lost second year, and then 71.1% in 2015 where he also missed time.

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There's probably also the financial aspect of people's opinions on Eifert's future contract, when they take into account that Burfict is making 4yr/$19m ($6.9m guarnateed) and Eifert's new contract will probably cost in the 5yr/$44m range with probably somewhere around $20m guaranteed.


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EDIT: I did some rough math and it came out to this. Keep in mind, if I am off by like 0.3% or whatnot, it happens. This was just some back of the napkin math.

Burfict has played roughly 60.2% of the defensive snaps in his career.
Eifert has played roughly 44.1% of the offensive snaps in his career.

A normal season has somewhere between 1060 and 1130 snaps on average for a defense or offense. So middle ground of 1095. 16.1% of 1095 would be a snap difference of roughly 176 snaps a year.

A game tends to have 55-80 snaps per game per side, middle ground of 68 snaps per game. Means the difference is roughly 2.6 games a year.

Not sure what that actually matters in terms of the conversation, or anything else, but there it is for information sake if anyone's interested/cares.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-27-2016, 04:35 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I expect MLJ to get a contract similar to the one signed by Emmanuel Sanders with Denver (3 years, 15 million). Very similar production and situations.

Btw, I find it funny that some people question extending Eifert due to health issues, but no one is asking the same questions about MLJ, who has missed 21 games in 4 seasons. Does anyone regret extending Burfict, seeing how he's only missed 2 fewer games than Eifert in the same time frame? It's funny how Burfict is perceived as a warrior and Eifert - playing one of the most grueling positions in the NFL - is perceived as a "glass jaw". 

Very good points here Shake.

I hear a lot of people on here talk about how fragile Eifert is but i have never heard much about MLJ and Burfict.

All of which i want on this team for a long time to come.

I agree though, it is funny.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-27-2016, 06:53 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. I'd like to point out I most certainly did question about Marvin Jones' injury history a couple times earlier in the thread.

2. That said, looking at Burfict vs Eifert, I guess it comes down to the fact that we've seen Burfict reach the the top level of play already so we know he's fully capable of doing so. 3. We've seen Burfict play in 16 games twice already, Eifert has never done it.

4. Burfict played 82.9% of the defensive snaps his rookie year and then kicked it up to 95.9% (and 2nd team All-Pro) in his second year before getting hurt in his third year with only 19.3%.

Eifert was banged up his rookie year and played 59.5% of the offensive snaps. and followed it up with 0.8% in his lost second year, and then 71.1% in 2015 where he also missed time.

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5. There's probably also the financial aspect of people's opinions on Eifert's future contract, when they take into account that Burfict is making 4yr/$19m ($6.9m guarnateed) and Eifert's new contract will probably cost in the 5yr/$44m range with probably somewhere around $20m guaranteed.

1. I wasn't targeting you specifically. Just saying that in general, people want MLJ back and rarely is his health mentioned as a reason to think about moving on. In fact, I think an opinion like that wouldn't go over very well on here.

2. Didn't we see Eifert play at a top level this year? 

3. Eifert missed 1 game his rookie season and 3 games in 2015 from a dirty head shot. I say big whoop. Dude is a baller. 

4. You're splitting hairs, but my point is still valid. Burfict has missed 17 games over the last 2 years. Eifert has missed 19 games in 3 years. No matter how you slice it, both have been nicked up and missed some games, but both are key members of this team and what they're trying to do. Eifert's impact on our offense isn't debatable. Same for Burfict.

5. I expect Eifert to make 2-3 million more on average than Burfict, but that's the price you pay for top talent at TE. I just tend to look at the impact a player has for us to determine his worth. Ultimately I think 2014 will prove to be a fluke and it doesn't really bother me if a player misses a couple games per year. If Eifert misses a huge chunk next year, sure I'd worry then. If he misses 1-2 games from being "dinged up", big whoop. And that's what we've seen with him in 2 of his 3 seasons. We accept the same from Burfict and if you look across the league it's pretty common for TE's to be nicked up and miss a few here and there.