Safeties

[sonofstat]

I really want to keep both. They are both productive and we've lost coaches at all levels of our defense this offseason so i value some veteran continuity on the field.

I normally am firmly in the 'dont overpay vets' camp but I would make an exception - within reason - for Reggie Nelson.

I like what Williams offers but we are pretty thin if we lose one/both of Nelson & Iloka right now.

One person who would be delighted to see us let Reggie Nelson go is Big Ben and anything that makes your opponents happy is not a good thing :)

[mikey6866]

Im all for keeping both but I think iloka is about to get overpaid big time. Im pretty sure he wont be a bengal next year so im really hoping we keep reggie and draft jeremy cash from duke in rd 2. He would be a perfect replacement for iloka.

[CageTheBengal]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I want Nelson over Iloka.

Iloka is good but Nelson is a ball hawk plus Shawn Williams is a better fit at the SS over FS. Ideally we keep both though.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-18-2016, 04:28 AM)Alleyviper13 Wrote: Does Nelson stay?

Does Iloka stay?

Or does Miami take both of them or Hue Jackson snake them?

My bet is they both go to Miami for no income tax and better weather.

Also: Vance Joseph

I Iloka has to be our #1 priority this FA, bring him back Hell or high water.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-04-2016, 01:29 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I want Nelson over Iloka.

Iloka is good but Nelson is a ball hawk plus Shawn Williams is a better fit at the SS over FS. Ideally we keep both though.

The age factor and upside of George put me in Iloka's boat.

But Reggie has stayed healthy more-so than Iloka so there is that as well.

You are correct that Shawn is a better fit at SS than FS even though some say the Safeties don't play that way.

I call BS on that, Reggie has always said he liked being a FS more than at SS and it has shown here no matter the coach speak.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-18-2016, 11:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Players like to win and they like money.  Weather and state income tax don't make that much difference.

yea?
With the size of the contracts these guys get, it can make a difference between getting an extra 500k in the back pocket or not.

It's a business, they are going to go to where the can squeeze the most money out of.

Let's just for simplicity's sake say that we made the exact same deal to Michael Johnson that Tampa did.

5 Year 43.75 mil deal ($24 Mill Guaranteed)
Ohio Income tax 5.33%
Florida Income Tax 0%
Difference: $2,333,319 ($1,279,992 guaranteed) in MJ's pocket if he signs in FL vs Ohio for that duration of the contract.

So in order for the contract to have been the same money wise for Michael Johnson, the Bengals would've had to offer him:
5 years/$46.215 mil (in order to account for the income tax).

Now think about all that money Suh got, and Michigan's income tax rate is 4.25%
In Suh's case, 6 years/$114 Mil ($60 mil guaranteed).
If he plays out his contract it will be an extra $4.845 mil in his back pocket ($2.55 mil guaranteed)
Detroit would've had to have made an offer around $119 just to match the $ he would get from the Miami contract.

Of course this is 2 extreme examples, but to the guys that don't make that much. It can still be an extra $20k+ in your pocket.

So yea, don't think about the taxes.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Iloka is good, but I don't think he's $9-10.5m good. Sign Nelson for another 2 years, slot in Williams next to him, and draft a 4th round safety or so for the future. Let someone else overpay for Iloka if he doesn't want to come back for $6.5-7m/yr or so. That should be enough for a competitive offer since it's a strong safety FA class this year, which should dilute it a bit.

[*Go Cards*]

Would like to see both remain Bengals a little longer. Sign Nelson to a two year deal and Illoka a longer deal.

For those using Carson as age thing. Well the obvious has already been covered about positions.

But surprised Peyton Manning or Tom Brady were not the examples given. You know someone who has won a ring or more than 1 playoff game and are approaching 40.

Still QB's, Kickers, and Punters are the exception to the age thing.

Also read earlier that players just care about winning and money instead of weather and no state taxes.

But if you make tens of millions of dollars and pay no state taxes ? It is a nice raise and equates to money in the pocket. Probably more endorsement money to be made in a town like Miami over Cincinnati too.

[*Go Cards*]

(01-18-2016, 05:28 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: You can see that age/injury have taken their toll on Hall, for example.  But Nelson is still playing at a high level.  Why not sign a one or two year contract if we can get him for a decent price?

Agree with this and think a two year deal would be very possible per other teams will factor in age as well and probably offer the same.

Think a one year deal would be hard to pull off though. Several teams will offer more than that I believe. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

Why is Iloka behaving as if he's not coming back? Is it because he wanted a contract done last year?

[fredtoast]

States with no income tax have higher sales tax. if you are making millions you should be saving a lot which will make a difference, but every state gets their tax money some way.

[*Go Cards*]

(02-04-2016, 11:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: States with no income tax have higher sales tax.  if you are making millions you should be saving a lot which will make a difference, but every state gets their tax money some way.

Florida has a 6% sales tax rate 

Ohio's 5.75% sales tax rate. 

Not that big of difference and the endorsement money has to be a bigger pond to fish in as well. 

[phil413]

I mentioned my stance on Iloka (tagged) and Nelson (signed if reasonable) with the first response to the OP. The thing I should have brought up was the secondary in general. Of coarse Mikey doesn't want to match an overpayment or give significant guaranteed money in Reggie's twilight years, but I wonder if "continuity" gets a few extra bucks. These two positions are literal safety nets behind the corners and the rest of the defense, and the corners are still sort of questionable. Dre is in his final year, Dennard is coming off an injury, Shaw is a young tweener, plus Pacman and Hall are FAs. Corner is a big money position, so if they upgrade or replace the corners it may be with a draft pick before a free agent. That may be even more reason to pay an extra couple mil total on a 3 year deal to match a Nelson deal. If experience and experience in the system specifically is reason enough to hire an OC or pass on a theoretical trade, then it may be enough to make Nelson a bigger priority than first believed.

[CageTheBengal]

Whatever happened with Nelson and his injury during the playoffs? I read it was serious enough to keep him out of the Pro Bowl.

[masonbengals fan]

I want them both back. They are the ironmen of our defense.

[BengalChris]

(02-04-2016, 11:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: States with no income tax have higher sales tax.  if you are making millions you should be saving a lot which will make a difference, but every state gets their tax money some way.

That's not completely true. I live in Florida where there's no income tax and the state sales tax is 6% and some counties add 1%. Compare that to California's mega-sized income and sales tax rates, which in some counties is 10%. Some New York areas are 9%.

[McC]

I think as long as we keep one of the two, we should be okay there. you've got Williams, Derron Smith, I think Josh Shaw can play some S and Leon Hall too, provided he's brought back for less money.