(02-05-2016, 03:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: $7m+? Ffffffffff that. I was fine if he wanted to come back for like $5-5.5m/yr or so, but paying Low #1/High #2 money for an injury prone guy who gets to play behind AJ Green? No thanks.
Time to offer Anquan Boldin some money. Dude broke his jaw and just played with it wired shut without painkillers. He can be the #2 and teach the WR they draft how to fight for balls like a champ.
Boldin is old, can't separate, and is nowhere near a WR2 at this stage of his career. Sanu is young, can't separate, has subpar hands, and is't good enough to be the WR2. If Marvin doesn't re-sign, then the new WR2 is in the draft.
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(02-05-2016, 07:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Jones ran a 4.46
(02-06-2016, 01:16 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Huh? Jones ran 4.46 at the Combine or his Pro Day.
Haven't you met Fred?
He throws out bogus information a lot in attempts to prove his point and expects everyone to just swallow it.
The more I think about this, the more it seems like Jones and his agent are throwing out 7 million so they don't get lowballed and to get teams into a bidding war.
The even more I also think about it, there's only one other decent receiver that I'd like, and that's Benjamin, because I don't want to spend a high draft pick on a receiver, but I'd like to keep Jones.
(02-06-2016, 01:13 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Boldin is old, can't separate, and is nowhere near a WR2 at this stage of his career. Sanu is young, can't separate, has subpar hands, and is't good enough to be the WR2. If Marvin doesn't re-sign, then the new WR2 is in the draft.
Marvin Jones in 16 games with Dalton & Green: 65/816/4
Anquan Boldin in 14 games with Gabbert & T Smith: 69/789/4
Is he old? Sure. Has he lost a step? Absolutely. Can he still run the routes to get open, use his good hands, and be among the best in the NFL at fighting for the ball and making contested catches? Yuuuup.
Not saying he's going to be amazing, but speed and age aren't the only way a person can get separation. Tony Gonzalez at the end of his career was slow as hell, but still could churn out 80/850/8 seasons pretty much at will even at the age of 36. Why? Routes, hands, and fighting for contested catches. All three of those age really really well.
I'm not claiming he would be the long term answer or anything, obviously, but as a 1 year stopgap for that drafted rookie to learn a bit? It could work out really well. Green, Boldin, Rookie, Eifert, Bernard. That'd be one heck of a skill group for Dalton to play with.
We've seen these throws be interceptions many times with AJ Green. The mentality/ability to do that doesn't go away with age. Maybe he can teach AJ a thing or two.
(02-05-2016, 06:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I realize this is hardcore message board bias, but I feel like going into 2015 when we were getting Jones back it was like "This dude is ESSENTIAL!!! YAY!!!" and now going into 2016 (possibly) without him it's like "Meh, let him go. Some guy on our bench is as good or better than him. Big deal. AJ Green was the reason he was good." and so on.
(02-06-2016, 12:37 AM)J24 Wrote: If they lose both Marvin Jones & George Iloka it will because of stupidity, cheapness, and laziness. Everything the front office has said & done would be meaningless if they do not get at least one of those two signed.
Though I agree that it is vital to get at least one of those two inked to long term deals, you also have to remember that every starter cannot have a top tier contract. There just simply isn't enough money.
Personally, I would argue that Iloka is more worthy of a top tier deal than Marvin Jones. I see the WR position as being easier to replace, than a top Safety.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(02-06-2016, 12:37 AM)J24 Wrote: If they lose both Marvin Jones & George Iloka it will because of stupidity, cheapness, and laziness. Everything the front office has said & done would be meaningless if they do not get at least one of those two signed.
Or because Marvin Jones wants to try to be a #1 WR and get paid like it, and Iloka is mad that the Bengals didn't give him a contract last offseason.
I was pretty tough on the Bengals when they let JJo leave in FA, and also really tough when they went super cheap on Hawkins by not giving him the 2nd round tender. If Jones and Iloka leave, I am fine saying it's probably not the front office's fault. Can't keep guys who want to leave unless you want to throw ridiculous money at them and then that WOULD be the stupidity that you mention.
(02-05-2016, 03:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: What is the price in 2016 for a late 1st round pick or a late 2nd who is more capable of being a true #1 within a year or two? My hunch is 50% less so I would rather draft if the case versus paying a solid, but not great #2 7 million plus a year.
Agree, and I like MLJ a lot. But no need to overpay. Take the wide out from ND in Round 1 (Will Fuller) and you're set for another 5 years at WR.
(02-05-2016, 05:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Wasn't losing Jones for 2014 one of the excuses for Dalton's drop off? Are we really sure Mike Brown saving a million bucks is worth risking that again? Ida know...
Also, isn't one of the benefits of "overpaying" Jones that we don't have to spend a draft pick on a replacement?
It wasn't just losing Jones in 2014... It was losing Green for a good amount of the year, and losing Eifert and Jones for the whole year. Sanu being the #1 with people like Tate, and Little being the #2, and 3 is why there was a drop off.
(02-06-2016, 05:15 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Is he old? Sure. Has he lost a step? Absolutely. Can he still run the routes to get open, use his good hands, and be among the best in the NFL at fighting for the ball and making contested catches? Yuuuup.
Not saying he's going to be amazing, but speed and age aren't the only way a person can get separation. Tony Gonzalez at the end of his career was slow as hell, but still could churn out 80/850/8 seasons pretty much at will even at the age of 36. Why? Routes, hands, and fighting for contested catches. All three of those age really really well.
They age well, but they still age. No need to take a chance on a guy that age who could be washed up.
(02-06-2016, 11:02 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Personally, I would argue that Iloka is more worthy of a top tier deal than Marvin Jones. I see the WR position as being easier to replace, than a top Safety.
Probably, but haven't we seen a revolving door of WR's lately?
Shipley
Simpson
Binns
Hawkins
Whalen
Sanzenbacher
Little
Moore
and so on. I just feel like we've put a lot of proverbial pokers in the fire and haven't seen as much consistency on the returns as I'd need to confidently say we are going to replace Jones without a hiccup. That doesn't mean we get in a bidding war to keep him out of Cleveland, but I won't be too pleased we saved cap room (we might not even use) if we're back to hoping Wright can do what we assumed Binns and Simpson would.
(02-06-2016, 11:39 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Or because Marvin Jones wants to try to be a #1 WR and get paid like it, and Iloka is mad that the Bengals didn't give him a contract last offseason.
I was pretty tough on the Bengals when they let JJo leave in FA, and also really tough when they went super cheap on Hawkins by not giving him the 2nd round tender. If Jones and Iloka leave, I am fine saying it's probably not the front office's fault. Can't keep guys who want to leave unless you want to throw ridiculous money at them and then that WOULD be the stupidity that you mention.
Marvin Jones is a pretty good number 2 and Iloka is a top saftey who will only get better. They have earned their contracts the Bengals need to do the right thing and pay them.
Let him test the market. We can't pay him #1 money nor should we. Good player but we already have our #1 WR and Eifert and can bring in someone like Travis Benjamin or Rishard Matthews to do what MLJ did here. Plus Benjamin can return Kicks and we can kick Tate to the side and Draft another Wideout.
(02-05-2016, 08:11 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I like having Marvin in stripes but I believe he will get a better offer elsewhere. I think the FO will resign Sanu to a reasonable contract and draft a WR.
Sanu is not near the receiver Jones is - especially deep. Eifert gets his targets in the seam and the red zone - and has a history of getting knocked out of a couple of games when he gets hit on a seam route - and has an overall history now of being easily injured. Neither of those guys is the deep threat that Jones is
Our offense is not competitive without all three of those targets.
Any receiver we get in this draft will take years to develop with the possible exception of Fuller or Miller - and neither will be prepared to replace Jones (at his current playing level) in their first season.
I say pay the guy to stay if we want to get another shot at the big game.
(02-06-2016, 04:39 PM)rob Wrote: marvin jones 7-8 mil a year is a joke. Sanu has a lot of talent, get rid of jones and keep sanu, and pick up a FA WR for cheap. draft a WR??? do you guys even watch the bengals? what is drafting a WR going to do? We drafted Mario Alfred and he didn't hardly play. drafting a WR to "replace" marvin jones? sometimes people on these boards get out of reality and forgot how the bengals work.
marvin jones is good, I want him on my team, but not for 7mil a year. 5mil a year max. and that is pushing it.
Sanu doesn't have a lot of talent. At least not as a wide receiver. Guy has questionable hands, and awful ability to get separation, and he's also vanished for the last year and a half.
Also... you're really comparing drafting a WR in the 2nd-4th rounds against drafting a 7th round WR who they envisioned as a kick returner?
(02-06-2016, 04:02 PM)3wt Wrote: Sanu is not near the receiver Jones is - especially deep. Eifert gets his targets in the seam and the red zone - and has a history of getting knocked out of a couple of games when he gets hit on a seam route - and has an overall history now of being easily injured. Neither of those guys is the deep threat that Jones is
Our offense is not competitive without all three of those targets.
Any receiver we get in this draft will take years to develop with the possible exception of Fuller or Miller - and neither will be prepared to replace Jones (at his current playing level) in their first season.
I say pay the guy to stay if we want to get another shot at the big game.
I like Jones as much as the next guy but having been a Bengal fan for quite a long time and knowing how our FO works, I don't think they will resign Jones.
Sanu should be easier to sign and he is multi skilled capable of playing QB in a pinch. They will draft a player with MJ's skill set and push on if MJ gets an offer for 7 mill per, which I think he will.
I think they will try to resign him at the Bengal's price but he will get more money elsewhere. After the Bears tag Jeffrey, Jones will be the top FA WR and some team will overpay cause one or two always do.
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