Marvin Jones Denies Claim That He Wants 7 Million

[XenoMorph]

(02-12-2016, 12:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Looking at guys like Gresh, Warrick and Chad etc, you have a point there.

Guys like Caldwell and Simpson just weren't as good as people thought though. It's not like they flopped elsewhere due to age or injury.

I'm not saying MLJ in on par with those two, but I don't think he's going to go elsewhere and become an 80-1200-10 guy. I think he is what he is. An okay #2. We missed him in 2014, but I think that was more due to the lack of quality targets elsewhere than MLJ being a great player.

hes our #3 receiver here behind AJ and Eifert... But we missed them all in 2014.

This was a good productive year for him his only other productive year is when he had 10 TDs but not very many yards. (i think sanu was starting more) And 4 of those were against the oft benched Dee Milliner in 1 game... so only 6 TDs over the other 15 games isnt that good of a season.

I would like to keep him just because the QB and WR have grown in this offense together. but if hes gone i think we can find someone to replace him without to much issue as long as Green and Eifert can stay on the field.

[*Nately120*]

(02-12-2016, 12:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Looking at guys like Gresh, Warrick and Chad etc, you have a point there.

Guys like Caldwell and Simpson just weren't as good as people thought though. It's not like they flopped elsewhere due to age or injury.

I'm not saying MLJ in on par with those two, but I don't think he's going to go elsewhere and become an 80-1200-10 guy. I think he is what he is. An okay #2. We missed him in 2014, but I think that was more due to the lack of quality targets elsewhere than MLJ being a great player.

I hear ya, I just feel like the Bengals' offense has been a who's who of starters who leave here and then immediate do nothing.

Cedric Benson (maybe more of an injury thing, but he was gone after a few weeks in Green Bay)
Jordan Shipley (another injury bug, mostly)
Chad (could be age, but he from #1 WR to bench overnight)
TO (from our #2 WR to jobless)
Jermaine Gresham
Jerome Simpson
Armonhammer Binns
Ryan Whalen (wasn't a starter, but no one else ever tried to use him)
Bernard Scott
The Lawfirm
Dan Sanzenbacher
Greg Little

I realize I'm reaching on some of these, and some of these guys weren't the backbone of our offense, but we seem to be a "last stop" for a lot of players.  We either start them, or try to work them in beyond their capabilities and once they're out of Cincy, that's it.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(02-12-2016, 10:28 AM)Benton Wrote: agree on the falling off, but his agent can downplay that some talking about the QB or targets. My concern isn't that he's going to be irreplaceable, just that the market this season is going to drive up costs because it's thin. And we tend not to care what the market is doing, which could leave us with green, eifert and ... I dunno. Burkhead?

Ok well before FA begins (march 15) we can make him an offer of 5 years 33-35 mil, if he refuses that, then we rescind the offer and address our needs differently.

Rumors are Mack is going to be a FA this year, so switch gears and go after Mack. With Mack on this line, our #2 wr isn't as important as before. We'll just have to draft a couple WR's this year.

With or with out Jones, we better target Mack, If we can't sign Jones, then also go after Malik Jackson (26) and if necessary, we could cut Peko (3.5 mil, but this is a good draft for a DT, so we could go that route and save money). Mack wouldn't count against us for a comp pick, and he wants to go to a winning team and we do have a good track record there, so it'd be a win-win.

We'd of course bring back Adam Jones, Hall and Iloka.

I'd watch teams like Miami, Buffalo, NYJets, Pitt, Baltimore for some opportunities to steal a player from them.
All 5 of those teams are in Salary Cap trouble, especially Miami.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-12-2016, 01:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I hear ya, I just feel like the Bengals' offense has been a who's who of starters who leave here and then immediate do nothing.

Cedric Benson - Like you said, this was an injury thing, and it was really his last shot due to age/ability ratio.
Jordan Shipley (another injury bug, mostly) - Yep, injuries.
Chad (could be age, but he from #1 WR to bench overnight) - Combination of age and inability to pick up NE's offense in 2-3 weeks.
TO (from our #2 WR to jobless) - At his age (37) he was no longer worth the risk. He still had the ability when we had him though.
Jermaine Gresham - Good example. He did have the back surgery, but he's still young. Did the surgery really affect him that much?
Jerome Simpson - Good example.
Armonhammer Binns - Great example. How our coaches ever saw this guy fit to start is beyond me.
Ryan Whalen  - Yep. Good enough for us to roster for a few years, yet no one else even touched him.
Bernard Scott - He tore his ACL and was 29 when he came back. Probably wasn't that good in the first place though.
The Lawfirm - He was always stretched thin as a starter. 
Dan Sanzenbacher 
Greg Little - The fact that Little and Sanz were able to make our 53 and actually see time on the field says a lot about our WR depth.

I realize I'm reaching on some of these, and some of these guys weren't the backbone of our offense, but we seem to be a "last stop" for a lot of players.  We either start them, or try to work them in beyond their capabilities and once they're out of Cincy, that's it.

I'll add...

Kyle Cook 
Ghiaciuc 
Lavernandshirly Coles 
JP Foschi 
Chinny Ndukwe (31 starts here, out of the NFL at age 27)
Brandon Johnson
Robert Geathers (he's still only 32, but didn't get any interest as a FA)
Tank Johnson
Roy Williams
Antwan Odom
Rashad Jeanty (32 starts here, out of the NFL at age 27)
Dhani Jones (he was pondering retirement due to lack of interest as a FA when we came calling)

Honestly, the list is a lot longer than I thought so I'll go ahead and stop there. Most of these guys retired after leaving the Bengals, and none of them had a prominent role after leaving. I think MLJ would be a solid player anywhere, but either way it's pretty interesting that we heavily use all these players, yet they can't catch on elsewhere.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-12-2016, 01:00 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: hes our #3 receiver here behind AJ and Eifert...  But we missed them all in 2014.

This was a good productive year for him his only other productive year is when he had 10 TDs but not very many yards.   (i think sanu was starting more)  And 4 of those were against the oft benched Dee Milliner in 1 game...  so only 6 TDs over the other 15 games isnt that good of a season.

I would like to keep him just because the QB and WR have grown in this offense together.  but if hes gone i think we can find someone to replace him without to much issue as long as Green and Eifert can stay on the field.

Exactly where I'm at with this. I'd like to keep him, but if the Bengals take it seriously, they can easily replace him.

I don't think some 4th-5th round rookie WR is going to cut it though. They'd need to spend a quality pick or go the FA route (Heaven forbid).

[samhain]

I can accept whatever decision the team comes to with respect for Marvin Jones.

On one hand, I like having him on the team and have no problem with them giving him high-end number 2 money to stay. Hell, I'll even admit it: my primary reason for wanting him back is to avoid putting the team in a scenario where they almost have to draft a receiver in the first two rounds. That's a shit situation IMO, as this defense needs to be addressed. The d-line needs help, particularly on the interior and the LB corps needs a 3 down player.

On the other hand, maybe an early rookie isn't that huge of a drop off from Marvin. Maybe a young player can thrive early in his career when he's playing in an offense with Green and Eifert.

Again, my reasons for letting him go don't directly pertain to Marvin. IMO keeping the secondary strong is a massive priority. This team is in a world of shit if they lose both Adam Jones and one of the safeties. Considering the offense that our primary rival is currently fielding, cutting corners in that position group isn't an option. If they need to sacrifice a 3rd option in the offense to keep some of these DBs, then so be it.

[Bengal Dude]

(02-12-2016, 03:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Exactly where I'm at with this. I'd like to keep him, but if the Bengals take it seriously, they can easily replace him.

I don't think some 4th-5th round rookie WR is going to cut it though. They'd need to spend a quality pick or go the FA route (Heaven forbid).

I can see the Bengals going the FA route with a WR because practically every WR on the market, except maybe 3-4, is a bottom of the barrel type signing.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-12-2016, 03:39 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'll add...

Kyle Cook 
Ghiaciuc 
Lavernandshirly Coles 
JP Foschi 
Chinny Ndukwe (31 starts here, out of the NFL at age 27)
Brandon Johnson
Robert Geathers (he's still only 32, but didn't get any interest as a FA)
Tank Johnson
Roy Williams
Antwan Odom
Rashad Jeanty (32 starts here, out of the NFL at age 27)
Dhani Jones (he was pondering retirement due to lack of interest as a FA when we came calling)

Honestly, the list is a lot longer than I thought so I'll go ahead and stop there. Most of these guys retired after leaving the Bengals, and none of them had a prominent role after leaving. I think MLJ would be a solid player anywhere, but either way it's pretty interesting that we heavily use all these players, yet they can't catch on elsewhere.

I know injuries played a role in those 3 leaving. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-11-2016, 06:20 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: You are right... But I'd still do it.  This team doesn't have that many holes needed filled. If we don't get a reciever in fa or resign our own, we would most likely draft one the next year or two anyway very high.  Many times #1 receivers who hit fa the first time are 27-28but him being 25 means you could really sign him to a 7 year contract.  He doesn't really rely on his speed. Rather his physical body, going up at highest point, winning contested balls...Similar to marshal & Fitzgerald

*please note I know this will not happen, but it's silly we continue to pay people great money when they are average. Or slightly above*.  The bengals FO is loyal to a fault.  It's nice to see people live out their contracts but it's not responsible to have your 3rd or 4th best corner be one of your highest paid players.  We could literally free up on a given year 15-20m and sign 1 or 2 difference makers and fill in the gaps with similar marginal talent.

......ya know.....I think this is just insane enough to be a good idea.  Unfortunately, you are right, won't happen.  That said, if the team was serious about contending, they'd do something like this.

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2016, 06:20 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: You are right... But I'd still do it.  This team doesn't have that many holes needed filled. If we don't get a reciever in fa or resign our own, we would most likely draft one the next year or two anyway very high.  Many times #1 receivers who hit fa the first time are 27-28but him being 25 means you could really sign him to a 7 year contract.  He doesn't really rely on his speed. Rather his physical body, going up at highest point, winning contested balls...Similar to marshal & Fitzgerald

*please note I know this will not happen, but it's silly we continue to pay people great money when they are average. Or slightly above*.  The bengals FO is loyal to a fault.  It's nice to see people live out their contracts but it's not responsible to have your 3rd or 4th best corner be one of your highest paid players.  We could literally free up on a given year 15-20m and sign 1 or 2 difference makers and fill in the gaps with similar marginal talent.

It would be crazy to give up two first round picks for Alshon Jeffery.

And it is not as easy to replace plsyers like Leon Hall as some people think.  CBs are expensive on th efree agent market.  I don't think it would have been worth it to cut him to save a couple of million dollars.

Free agents are far from sure things.  I, like most people here. would like to see the Bengals be more aggressive about at least signing one top free agent a year, but if you start constantly cutting players with years left on their contracts and turn the roster over every few years the team is going to decline.  

Plus, if you miss on a draft pick you lose a couple of million.  If you miss on a tpo free agent you could lose tens of millions.  And there are a lot of free agents that miss.

[wolfkaosaun]

(02-11-2016, 04:14 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes... yes he is.

Decker after 4 years: 222 / 3,070 / 33 TDs / 8 100+ yard games
Jones after 4 years: 134 / 1,729 / 15 TDs / 1 100+ yard game

Even a 100% healthy Jones couldn't put up 87/1,288/11, which is what Decker put up in his contract year. Decker's just really that much better than Jones.

To be fair, Decker played on the #1 scoring offense of all time. In that time frame, that offense threw 92 passing touchdowns in two seasons. Two.

It took Andy Dalton 4 seasons to get to that number.

Throw in the fact that Decker played in 62 games. Whereas Marvin Jones has only played in 43.

So not only did Decker benefit from the greatest passing offense of all time, but he's played in almost 20 more games than Jones.

Jones hasn't played in 4 NFL seasons. He's played in 3. Those stats are misleading. I fully believe that Jones could put up those stats (87/1,288/11)

[CrazyAnimal8]

Only time will tell. Let's see how things pan out till we reach mid year.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-13-2016, 02:47 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: To be fair, Decker played on the #1 scoring offense of all time. In that time frame, that offense threw 92 passing touchdowns in two seasons. Two.

It took Andy Dalton 4 seasons to get to that number.

Throw in the fact that Decker played in 62 games. Whereas Marvin Jones has only played in 43.

So not only did Decker benefit from the greatest passing offense of all time, but he's played in almost 20 more games than Jones.

Jones hasn't played in 4 NFL seasons. He's played in 3. Those stats are misleading. I fully believe that Jones could put up those stats (87/1,288/11)

To be even more fair, Decker just put up an 80-1027-12 stat line in an offense that wasn't exactly the #1 scoring offense of all-time, so it's not like he was a fluke. Decker was a #2 (behind Marshall) with an inferior QB and all of his numbers would've easily been career highs across the board for Marvin Jones.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-13-2016, 02:47 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: To be fair, Decker played on the #1 scoring offense of all time. In that time frame, that offense threw 92 passing touchdowns in two seasons. Two.

It took Andy Dalton 4 seasons to get to that number.

Throw in the fact that Decker played in 62 games. Whereas Marvin Jones has only played in 43.

So not only did Decker benefit from the greatest passing offense of all time, but he's played in almost 20 more games than Jones.

Jones hasn't played in 4 NFL seasons. He's played in 3. Those stats are misleading. I fully believe that Jones could put up those stats (87/1,288/11)

So your argument is that because an offense was wildly successful with Decker in it, and because Decker has been healthy, we should hold that against him for some reason?

I'm pretty sure both of the things you are trying to make into reasons why Decker isn't better than Jones is exactly WHY Decker is better than Jones. Lol.. I want my WR to put up big numbers, help an offense be very successful, and play in lots of games. Yes please. He "benefited" from it by being a very productive part of it.. then he went to the Jets and put up as good of a season as anyone ever will with Geno Smith as their QB, and then a very good season with Ryan Fitzpatrick at QB. He sure didn't benefit from those two.

I am fairly confident in saying Marvin Jones will never be a 87/1,288/11 player. Enough so that I would be willing to make my first sig bet ever on it that he will never reach 80/1,200/10 in a season.

[wolfkaosaun]

(02-14-2016, 08:10 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: So your argument is that because an offense was wildly successful with Decker in it, and because Decker has been healthy, we should hold that against him for some reason?

I'm pretty sure both of the things you are trying to make into reasons why Decker isn't better than Jones is exactly WHY Decker is better than Jones. Lol.. I want my WR to put up big numbers, help an offense be very successful, and play in lots of games. Yes please. He "benefited" from it by being a very productive part of it.. then he went to the Jets and put up as good of a season as anyone ever will with Geno Smith as their QB, and then a very good season with Ryan Fitzpatrick at QB. He sure didn't benefit from those two.

I am fairly confident in saying Marvin Jones will never be a 87/1,288/11 player. Enough so that I would be willing to make my first sig bet ever on it that he will never reach 80/1,200/10 in a season.

I'm saying that Marvin Jones is more than capable of doing so. Decker was the #2 target in two of the greatest passing offenses of all time.

So Marvin Jones hasn't been productive? I mean, he had a career high in receiving yards despite the team losing their starting QB and this offense has MUCH more weapons than the Jets. We're just not gonna talk about how the Bengals had 4 players with over 400 yards and 3 players with over 600? The Bengals are one of seven teams this past season that had 4 players that had 600 or more receiving yards.

The Jets had no one on the passing attack besides Marshall and Decker. The next best receiver didn't even eclipse 390 yards.

Is Decker a great receiver? Absolutely. But to believe Marvin Jones can't reach that level is beyond crazy. His final 4 games he had essentially a rookie QB and yet STILL put up career numbers besides TDs.

Decker has a much bigger sample size. Again, he's played in 19 more games than Jones in his first 4 seasons. So it's more like Decker's first 4 seasons VS Jones' first 3.

So why would I think Jones can't reach 80/1,200/10 in a season? He has great hands. Good route running. Great with YAC. Extremely fast feet. Great sideline footwork. I see zero reason to believe that Jones can't have similar success. Zero.

So, what about Marvin Jones' playing style makes you believe that he will never be a player like that?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-14-2016, 06:33 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: 1. I'm saying that Marvin Jones is more than capable of doing so. Decker was the #2 target in two of the greatest passing offenses of all time.

2. We're just not gonna talk about how the Bengals had 4 players with over 400 yards and 3 players with over 600? The Bengals are one of seven teams this past season that had 4 players that had 600 or more receiving yards.

3. The Jets had no one on the passing attack besides Marshall and Decker. The next best receiver didn't even eclipse 390 yards.

4. So why would I think Jones can't reach 80/1,200/10 in a season? He has great hands. Good route running. Great with YAC. Extremely fast feet. Great sideline footwork. I see zero reason to believe that Jones can't have similar success. Zero.

1. Yes, good players make good offenses. It's not like he rode around on the coattails of the offense, he put up big numbers. Not sure why you keep trying to turn this into a negative for Decker. He left that offense and still has produced very well, proving it wasn't just due to Manning.

2. Is that a thing? Also, this is the second time you're failing with numbers on response to my posts. First you say they had 3 players with over 600, but then you say they are one of seven teams this past season that had 4 players that had 600 or more receiving yards. Your stats are contradicting themselves.

First off, nice arbitrary cutoff points for yardage. Secondly, what does that even mean? Nothing?

3. And once again, why would you try to make it sound like a bad thing that 2 WR are so good they can carry the rest of the passing game on their backs? It's not their fault Jones isn't good enough to force balls to be thrown his way more frequently.

Jets top 4 receivers: 3232 yards
Bengals top 4 receivers: 3200 yards

With Ryan F'ing Fitzpatrick.

4. Because he's never come close to sniffing it. That's the reason he can't. He plays behind AJ Green, so he'll never be double covered less than he currently is, and he had a QB who was having an MVP season for 75% of the year. If he couldn't sniff it in 2015, he never will. He can still be a good player in the NFL, just as an okay #2 WR.

Side note? For being "extremely fast", he doesn't entirely show it on the field. Bengals top 5 receiving targets career longest catches...
AJ Green: 82 yards (TD)
Mohamed Sanu: 76 yards (TD)
Tyler Eifert: 61 yards
Marvin Jones: 47 yards
Giovani Bernard: 46 yards

He has only managed to beat the RB to stay out of last place by 1 yard.