NFL Cap Carryovers Announced

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

https://www.nflpa.com/news/all-news/2016-nfl-clubs-unused-salary-cap-carryover-amounts-announced

The Bengals have the 9th most carried over at $7,587,902

Teams with more carried over (alphabetically):

Cleveland Browns
Jacksonville Jaguars
Miami Dolphins
New York Giants
Oakland Raiders
San Francisco 49ers
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Tennessee Titans

[Mike M (the other one)]

Whoot more money to spend bringing in quality Free Agents!

[BengalChris]

Probably just means more money to carry over to next year so that it can be carried over to the year after that, but I hope it really means a better chance to resign our guys.

[Wes Mantooth]

That can't be right, can it? I was told that the we were saving money for Andy and AJ. That was the money was carried over for. So now that we've signed both there shouldn't be any unspent.

Keep in mind, we started carrying over money in 2011. 2-0-1-1. Five freaking years ago. We carried over money from 2011 to 2012, then from 2012 to 2013, then from 2013 to 2014, then from 2014 to 2015. And now we're carrying over money from 2015 into 2016.

Let than sink in...

Money that is carried over is simply unspent money from the year prior. Unused cap space. Sure, every team at some point will most likely have a year where they don't spend to cap. For any number of reasons. Young roster in a rebuild, clearing of cap space, saving for a push the following year, cleaning house, etc.

But why would a team have unused money for FIVE STRAIGHT YEARS? Why? Again, we were told we were setting aside for Andy and AJ. For Geno. For Carlos. All of them are now signed. Does anyone honestly believe that we were saving money in 2011 for a Geoge Iloka contract in 2016? He wasn't even drafted until 2012. Marvin Jones, Sanu, were they budgeted in for while they were still in college?

Every year we rollover more money from the last, which only means we continue to have unspent money from the previous year. Every year we're near the top in space. Every single year. We cry about expiring deals, and injury pools, and rookie deals. Yet it never gets spent. Never.

Tens of millions of dollars that goes directly it the pockets of the Brown family. Tens of millions of dollars that other teams have and will try to use to better their respective teams. And here we stand, with the longest playoff win drought in professional football. With 5 straight one and dones. No closer to a Superbowl now than were in 2011, or 2009, or 2005.

It's the same story, we watch this some movie every single damn year. If you're cool with doing less, and investing less resources into our product than others then that's fine. But please, save all the bologna that we're only saving for future deals, or that we're simply being conservative.

We don't spend what we can. Our peers invest more. Period. Pretending that this witholding of future cap space is part of some master plan is an insult to everyone's intelligence.

Rant over...

[Atomic Orange]

I'm going to have to check with Hobspin because those numbers can't be right.

[NATI BENGALS]

(02-25-2016, 10:06 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: That can't be right, can it?  I was told that the we were saving money for Andy and AJ.  That was the money was carried over for.  So now that we've signed both there shouldn't be any unspent.

Keep in mind, we started carrying over money in 2011.  2-0-1-1.  Five freaking years ago.  We carried over money from 2011 to 2012, then from 2012 to 2013, then from 2013 to 2014, then from 2014 to 2015.  And now we're carrying over money from 2015 into 2016.

Let than sink in...

Money that is carried over is simply unspent money from the year prior.  Unused cap space.  Sure, every team at some point will most likely have a year where they don't spend to cap.  For any number of reasons.  Young roster in a rebuild, clearing of cap space, saving for a push the following year, cleaning house, etc.

But why would a team have unused money for FIVE STRAIGHT YEARS?  Why?  Again, we were told we were setting aside for Andy and AJ. For Geno.  For Carlos.  All of them are now signed.  Does anyone honestly believe that we were saving money in 2011 for a Geoge Iloka contract in 2016?  He wasn't even drafted until 2012.  Marvin Jones, Sanu, were they budgeted in for while they were still in college?

Every year we rollover more money from the last, which only means we continue to have unspent money from the previous year.  Every year we're near the top in space.  Every single year.  We cry about expiring deals, and injury pools, and rookie deals.  Yet it never gets spent.  Never.

Tens of millions of dollars that goes directly it the pockets of the Brown family.  Tens of millions of dollars that other teams have and will try to use to better their respective teams.  And here we stand, with the longest playoff win drought in professional football.  With 5 straight one and dones.  No closer to a Superbowl now than were in 2011, or 2009, or 2005.

It's the same story, we watch this some movie every single damn year.  If you're cool with doing less, and investing less resources into our product than others then that's fine.  But please, save all the bologna that we're only saving for future deals, or that we're simply being conservative.

We don't spend what we can.  Our peers invest more.  Period.  Pretending that this witholding of future cap space is part of some master plan is an insult to everyone's intelligence.

Rant over...  

I dont think you understand what the rollover is. If it was going in to Mike Browns pocket they wouldnt roll it over. They dont have to do any rollover. They could just sit on it and not roll over a dime. But they dont. 

By rolling it over we have more to spend this year. Im not looking it up. But we seem to rollover a similar amount every year. Basically the emergency fund and extension money. Or if the guys like Iloka who we tried to extend would have signed last year that is the money he would have got. He didnt take it so we roll it over for future use. Real easy concept.

This isnt some Mike Brown conspiracy to line his pockets. The owner of a billion dollar franchise probably isnt worried about skimming the salary cap leftovers. Its our front office doing more smart business. 

We wouldnt be recognized as having one of the most loaded rosters in the NFL if our front office was as piss poor as you would like to imagine.

[NATI BENGALS]

And if you look at the article that was linked it even says

"Note that the Denver Broncos, Los Angeles Rams and New Orleans Saints opted to not carry over the full amount available to them."

If our front office was holding money they would have been in that group.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-26-2016, 02:22 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I dont think you understand what the rollover is. If it was going in to Mike Browns pocket they wouldnt roll it over. They dont have to do any rollover. They could just sit on it and not roll over a dime. But they dont. 

By rolling it over we have more to spend this year. Im not looking it up. But we seem to rollover a similar amount every year. Basically the emergency fund and extension money. Or if the guys like Iloka who we tried to extend would have signed last year that is the money he would have got. He didnt take it so we roll it over for future use. Real easy concept.

This isnt some Mike Brown conspiracy to line his pockets. The owner of a billion dollar franchise probably isnt worried about skimming the salary cap leftovers. Its our front office doing more smart business. 

We wouldnt be recognized as having one of the most loaded rosters in the NFL if our front office was as piss poor as you would like to imagine.

It's never spent.  That's the point.  Yeah, great they'll roll it over so they can theoretically spend more.  Except they won't.  They'll again have roll over next year, because they'll leave money unspent this year.

It's not that hard to follow.

They rolled over unused cap space from 2011 to 2012.  Meaning they didn't spend to cap in 2011.  They left money on the table.  They did the same 2012.  The same in 2013.  The same in 2014.  The same in 2015.  It goes on and on and on...

You're right.  It is a real easy concept.  If they were actually spending to cap, or close to it, there wouldn't be money to roll over EVERY SINGLE YEAR.  You're now talking about extensions for guys that weren't even on the books when this idea of rollover started.

And don't even get me started on the "emergency fund".  What emergencies exactly?  Explain them to me.  Why don't other teams have them built into their spending?  Can you give one single example where we needed 10 million dollars in any single season to cover injury settlements and the like?

IT'S ALL BULLSHIT.  They throw some bologna year after year, about rookie pools and rollover, and injury settlements, and unicorns and bigfoot's magical dick.  It's all bunch of garbage to divert your attention from the fact that they spend less than other teams. 

You don't need 10 million to cover emergencies, you don't need to set aside funds for players beginning immediately after their rookie seasons.  The cap changes, players come and go, situations change.  This idea that we forever this holding pattern of not being to spend because of drafts and future deals is smoke and mirrors.  All teams have to deal with these issues.  Yet NO ONE ELSE is rolling over money every single damn year.

The fact is, you believe because you want to.  And that's ok.  Perhaps your so blindly by your fandom and loyalty to this team that you just don't want to see it.  But it's simple math.  Money goes unspent.  Regardless of whether or not they have to roll it over, it would be rolled over in the first place if they spent to cap.  And yeah, maybe sometimes to you need to set aside for the future.  But for 5 straight years?

Wake up...

[NATI BENGALS]

(02-26-2016, 02:55 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: It's never spent.  That's the point.  Yeah, great they'll roll it over so they can theoretically spend more.  Except they won't.  They'll again have roll over next year, because they'll leave money unspent this year.

It's not that hard to follow.

They rolled over unused cap space from 2011 to 2012.  Meaning they didn't spend to cap in 2011.  They left money on the table.  They did the same 2012.  The same in 2013.  The same in 2014.  The same in 2015.  It goes on and on and on...

You're right.  It is a real easy concept.  If they were actually spending to cap, or close to it, there wouldn't be money to roll over EVERY SINGLE YEAR.  You're now talking about extensions for guys that weren't even on the books when this idea of rollover started.

And don't even get me started on the "emergency fund".  What emergencies exactly?  Explain them to me.  Why don't other teams have them built into their spending?  Can you give one single example where we needed 10 million dollars in any single season to cover injury settlements and the like?

IT'S ALL BULLSHIT.  They throw some bologna year after year, about rookie pools and rollover, and injury settlements, and unicorns and bigfoot's magical dick.  It's all bunch of garbage to divert your attention from the fact that they spend less than other teams. 

You don't need 10 million to cover emergencies, you don't need to set aside funds for players beginning immediately after their rookie seasons.  The cap changes, players come and go, situations change.  This idea that we forever this holding pattern of not being to spend because of drafts and future deals is smoke and mirrors.  All teams have to deal with these issues.  Yet NO ONE ELSE is rolling over money every single damn year.

The fact is, you believe because you want to.  And that's ok.  Perhaps your so blindly by your fandom and loyalty to this team that you just don't want to see it.  But it's simple math.  Money goes unspent.  Regardless of whether or not they have to roll it over, it would be rolled over in the first place if they spent to cap.  And yeah, maybe sometimes to you need to set aside for the future.  But for 5 straight years?

Wake up...

You dont know what you are talking about. This isnt the 90s. Read up on it. Learn something because you just dont understand it. I feel like ive tried to explain it to you 3 years in a row 

Here are the numbers.


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/2015/


We actually spent over what the salary cap was set at. But we had rollover. Which changes our individual cap limit. The money we didnt spend up to the adjusted cap we just rolled over for use this year. Like I said earlier if we would have been able to get extensions done with Iloka and Marvin Jones last summer that money we just rolled over to this year would have gone to them. And you wouldnt be crying about Mike Brown. But they wanted to test the market. We cant make them sign. But we had ammo to try to get them to sign.

Our front office has been running like a well oiled machine. They keep giving us playoff contenders. They just put together a 12-4 team. You sir are the one that needs to wake up.

[Daddy-O]

(02-26-2016, 03:23 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: You dont know what you are talking about. This isnt the 90s. Read up on it. Learn something because you just dont understand it. I feel like ive tried to explain it to you 3 years in a row 

Here are the numbers.


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/2015/


We actually spent over what the salary cap was set at. But we had rollover. Which changes our individual cap limit. The money we didnt spend up to the adjusted cap we just rolled over for use this year. Like I said earlier if we would have been able to get extensions done with Iloka and Marvin Jones last summer that money we just rolled over to this year would have gone to them. And you wouldnt be crying about Mike Brown. But they wanted to test the market. We cant make them sign. But we had ammo to try to get them to sign.

Our front office has been running like a well oiled machine. They keep giving us playoff contenders. They just put together a 12-4 team. You sir are the one that needs to wake up.

You're right, he obviously doesn't understand how it works.  Why is it there's always some kind of conspiracy with some people thinking Mike Brown is lining his pockets with extra cap dollars?  It's mind blowing.

Good lord the Bengal formula works, generally because they don't overreach in free agency with the "unknowns".  They prefer to develop and retain talent whenever possible.  The consistent extra cap rollover validates their approach because they're not wasting money on non-productive players.

Geez, it's really not that difficult to understand.  It's like making sound personal investments, you don't invest in things that depreciate to build your success.  Well spent money makes more money, or in this case allows you to make more smart investments. 

[Rhinocero23]

(02-26-2016, 10:35 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: You're right, he obviously doesn't understand how it works.  Why is it there's always some kind of conspiracy with some people thinking Mike Brown is lining his pockets with extra cap dollars?  It's mind blowing.

Good lord the Bengal formula works, generally because they don't overreach in free agency with the "unknowns".  They prefer to develop and retain talent whenever possible.  The consistent extra cap rollover validates their approach because they're not wasting money on non-productive players.

Geez, it's really not that difficult to understand.  It's like making sound personal investments, you don't invest in things that depreciate to build your success.  Well spent money makes more money, or in this case allows you to make more smart investments. 

He does understand how it works. The less spent on the "work force" the more the owner keeps. It is that simple. Some on here would like to make it more complex but that is the net sum of it.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

The link above (from the same source already used) shows that once again the Bengals are in the top 10 in cap space (ie...money not spent). Take a look at the teams in the top 10...none were contenders. 

The real issues is teams like the 49er's and the Giants will fix the issue and spend on players that will give them the depth necessary to truly compete. They do not live in the "top 10 in UNSPENT cap" year after year...the Bengals do. Hence one huge reason they have the longest playoff win drought in the league. Do you really think it is just happenstance all the teams in the top 10 in UNSPENT cap combined for ZERO playoff wins?? SMFH!

No matter how you would like to spin it. Temas that bank payroll do not have a very good success rate in terms of championships. Fact!

[Mike M (the other one)]

Stop arguing guys, I'm sure there's some current Pee-Wee players that will eventually need to get paid.... right?

anyways, there you go, just add a little to is and we have Alex Mack money right there with no real loss in the actual money we have to spend this year.

[XenoMorph]

(02-25-2016, 10:06 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: That can't be right, can it? I was told that the we were saving money for Andy and AJ. That was the money was carried over for. So now that we've signed both there shouldn't be any unspent.

Keep in mind, we started carrying over money in 2011. 2-0-1-1. Five freaking years ago. We carried over money from 2011 to 2012, then from 2012 to 2013, then from 2013 to 2014, then from 2014 to 2015. And now we're carrying over money from 2015 into 2016.

Let than sink in...

Money that is carried over is simply unspent money from the year prior. Unused cap space. Sure, every team at some point will most likely have a year where they don't spend to cap. For any number of reasons. Young roster in a rebuild, clearing of cap space, saving for a push the following year, cleaning house, etc.

But why would a team have unused money for FIVE STRAIGHT YEARS? Why? Again, we were told we were setting aside for Andy and AJ. For Geno. For Carlos. All of them are now signed. Does anyone honestly believe that we were saving money in 2011 for a Geoge Iloka contract in 2016? He wasn't even drafted until 2012. Marvin Jones, Sanu, were they budgeted in for while they were still in college?

Every year we rollover more money from the last, which only means we continue to have unspent money from the previous year. Every year we're near the top in space. Every single year. We cry about expiring deals, and injury pools, and rookie deals. Yet it never gets spent. Never.

Tens of millions of dollars that goes directly it the pockets of the Brown family. Tens of millions of dollars that other teams have and will try to use to better their respective teams. And here we stand, with the longest playoff win drought in professional football. With 5 straight one and dones. No closer to a Superbowl now than were in 2011, or 2009, or 2005.

It's the same story, we watch this some movie every single damn year. If you're cool with doing less, and investing less resources into our product than others then that's fine. But please, save all the bologna that we're only saving for future deals, or that we're simply being conservative.

We don't spend what we can. Our peers invest more. Period. Pretending that this witholding of future cap space is part of some master plan is an insult to everyone's intelligence.

Rant over...

when a lot of your talent is drafted by you you tend to have more money left over from not paying free agents.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-25-2016, 10:54 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: I'm going to have to check with Hobspin because those numbers can't be right.

We really don't have any money at all after $10 million for the "rookie pool", $20 million for signing our own, a $5 million "injury buffer" blah blah blah.

Don't worry though, we'll kick the tires on at least 5-6 crappy free agents who will come for a visit and promptly leave with no deal.

(02-26-2016, 10:35 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: You're right, he obviously doesn't understand how it works.  Why is it there's always some kind of conspiracy with some people thinking Mike Brown is lining his pockets with extra cap dollars?  It's mind blowing.

Good lord the Bengal formula works, generally because they don't overreach in free agency with the "unknowns".  They prefer to develop and retain talent whenever possible.  The consistent extra cap rollover validates their approach because they're not wasting money on non-productive players.

Geez, it's really not that difficult to understand.  It's like making sound personal investments, you don't invest in things that depreciate to build your success.  Well spent money makes more money, or in this case allows you to make more smart investments. 

Sure it "works" if you're content with 5 straight playoff "appearances". Some of us just think their formula could be tweaked to work better. 

Maybe instead of stalling out at the same point every single year like we're stuck in the movie Groundhog's Day, we could actually spend a little more (just once) in an attempt to get over that hump. Maybe we should be looking at how New England and Denver approach things. How much money have they carried over every year? Are they signing higher quality free agents than us?

[XenoMorph]

(02-26-2016, 12:38 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We really don't have any money at all after $10 million for the "rookie pool", $20 million for signing our own, a $5 million "injury buffer" blah blah blah.

Don't worry though, we'll kick the tires on at least 5-6 crappy free agents who will come for a visit and promptly leave with no deal.


Sure it "works" if you're content with 5 straight playoff "appearances". Some of us just think their formula could be tweaked to work better. 

Maybe instead of stalling out at the same point every single year like we're stuck in the movie Groundhog's Day, we could actually spend a little more (just once) in an attempt to get over that hump. Maybe we should be looking at how New England and Denver approach things. How much money have they carried over every year? Are they signing higher quality free agents than us?

Our Defense is were we have the free agents i believe our entire offense is home grown (drafted) at least the starters right now.

and a few of those guys need contracts this year on both sides of the ball..

Bengals have money left over because they dont do to many bad deals leaving them with dead money like a lot of these teams that make the big free agency splash and then release theplayer a year or 2 later.

Playoffs this year were lost due to however you want to view it... The Flags the Fumble or the lack of our starting QB..

We were rolling thru the season pretty well before dalton got hurt. not sure how the extra money would have fixed that.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-26-2016, 03:23 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: You dont know what you are talking about. This isnt the 90s. Read up on it. Learn something because you just dont understand it. I feel like ive tried to explain it to you 3 years in a row 

Here are the numbers.


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/2015/


We actually spent over what the salary cap was set at. But we had rollover. Which changes our individual cap limit. The money we didnt spend up to the adjusted cap we just rolled over for use this year. Like I said earlier if we would have been able to get extensions done with Iloka and Marvin Jones last summer that money we just rolled over to this year would have gone to them. And you wouldnt be crying about Mike Brown. But they wanted to test the market. We cant make them sign. But we had ammo to try to get them to sign.

Our front office has been running like a well oiled machine. They keep giving us playoff contenders. They just put together a 12-4 team. You sir are the one that needs to wake up.

And you'll have to continue to explain to me every year there is money leftover.

1.) Where did the rollover come from in the first place?  How did we ever end up with money that was able to be rolled over to begin with?  I mean, unless I'm missing something it's because we didn't to spend to cap.

2.) Do we ever plan on our actually spending it, or is a perpetual amount of cushion that will forever remain unspent?

3.) I'm way too lazy, at least right now, to go back and look at each individual years cap number (lthough I've done this in the past).  But I'm 99% positive that if you were to take the salary cap in 2011 and subtract what we actuallu spent, then did the same for each year following, that you'd left with a helluva lot more than 7, 587,902.

4.) The rollover is added to the salary cap, right?  Say the salary cap is 140 mil, and team A rolls over 8 mil.  They can spend 148 million can they not?

You can't say we spent to cap last year if there is money leftover to roll over.

5.) No one is asking them to mortgage the future.  No one is calling for them to restructure a dozen plus is existing deals to free up money now, that will hinder us later.  What most people want is simply for them to spend what is available to them.  Period.  And the rollover money is available for them to spend.  It was available last year, the year before, the year before that, and the year before that.

At some point, wouldn't you want to actually use all available resources to build the very best team you can?  When a team continues to fall short, continues to make all the way to the playoffs, only to get immediately bounced, one has to wonder what difference that money would have made had it been invested into that years roster.

Who knows, maybe you add 7 million of payroll to last years team and we go 13-3 instead of 12-4, and instead of losing to Pitt with McCarron, we get a bye with Dalton returning for a home game in round 2.  You can ask this question for each of those 5 one and done's.  Would this team have done a better had they added more talent?

Why not finally found out?  All you have to is spend what you can.  Same as everyone else.  Maybe, just maybe, it gives us a better chance.  Crazy, right?

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-26-2016, 12:32 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: when a lot of your talent is drafted by you you tend to have more money left over from not paying free agents.

What?  Can you give me some examples?

What sense does this make?  Why couldn't you simply pay the in-house players that you want to keep whatever you need to do that AND invest what is leftover elsewhere?

If, at the end day, we're left with no money to spend after inking our guys, and we deem "our guys" the best options for the respective positions, then I'm not sure anyone has a problem with that.  It's only after signing "our guys" and having money just sitting there unused that many like myself will gripe.

I mean, unless you want to argue that there are zero players available in FA that are better than ANY of or players, I'm not sure I get the philosophy.  What's wrong with trying to improve?

It sure has worked for teams like Denver, New England and Seattle.  I'm not sure where those teams are without the veteran help they added in free agency.

[Hoofhearted]

(02-26-2016, 12:47 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Our Defense is were we have the free agents i believe our entire offense is home grown (drafted)   at least the starters  right now.

and a few of those guys need contracts this year on both sides of the ball..

Bengals have money left over because they dont do to many bad deals leaving them with dead money like a lot of these teams that make the big free agency splash and then release theplayer a year or 2 later.

Playoffs this year were lost due to however you want to view it...  The Flags the Fumble or the lack of our starting QB..

We were rolling thru the season pretty well before dalton got hurt.    not sure how the extra money would have fixed that.

This is true.

But there's always a weaknesses in your team, all most people ask is upgrade that position when the talent is available. 

Is there no better talent available to upgrade Bodine? Peko? And you don't need to pay someone Suh type money to upgrade. 

IMO - They view that a family atmosphere is better than a more talented team.

[grampahol]

Oh yeah...conspiracy.. That eye over the pyramid on the dollar bill? Mike Brown's eye.
I usually have a few bucks leftover from my monthly social security check and it's all because of Mike Brown and our conspiracy to lose the playoffs every year. It's so Mike and me can go party with hookers once a year and laugh at the rest of the fan base.
Hey! I might have EIGHT BUCKS rolling over this month. I could spend it all on a super bowl winning team, but I prefer to lose and feel crappy about it 11 months out of the year..

[Hoofhearted]

(02-26-2016, 03:21 PM)grampahol Wrote: Oh yeah...conspiracy.. That eye over the pyramid on the dollar bill?  Mike Brown's eye.
I usually have a few bucks leftover from my monthly social security check and it's all because of Mike Brown and our conspiracy to lose the playoffs every year. It's so Mike and me can go party with hookers once a year and laugh at the rest of the fan base.
Hey! I might have EIGHT BUCKS rolling over this month. I could spend it all on a super bowl winning team, but I prefer to lose and feel crappy about it 11 months out of the year..