Best WR in Bengals History

[Shake n Blake]

(03-24-2016, 09:16 PM)Okeana Wrote: I think we haven't seen the best of Green yet and he should be coming into his prime.  Unfortunately he has Dalton throwing to him and that will always hinder his career.  If you put him on a team with Big Ben, Rodgers, or Brady than you would see some insane numbers.  Overall I think Green is a superior route runner to Chad, but Chad had that extra level of speed.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-24-2016, 08:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yep. 


I agree with the overall point of this post (that Chad was more dominant compared to his peers), but Chad's numbers from the prime of his career are very similar to AJ's.

Chad ('02 through '07)- 89-1339-8
AJ's 3 full seasons ('12, '13 and '15)- 94-1358-10.7

Which is pretty crazy considering that time span for Chad, there was only an average of 4 QBs who reached 4,000 yards each year.
Meanwhile in that time span for AJ, there's an average of 11 QBs who reached 4,000 yards and 1 QB who reached 5,000 yards each year.

If you have comparable stats despite that huge of a difference in QBs (and the passing game) it's pretty easy to say which one was more dominant. AJ Green might end up putting up better numbers, and might end up even being a HoF, but as it stands right now Chad was the better WR. AJ needs to step up his dominance if he wants to be the best. Gotta be the best in your time if you want to be the best of all time.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-24-2016, 09:16 PM)Okeana Wrote: I think we haven't seen the best of Green yet and he should be coming into his prime.  Unfortunately he has Dalton throwing to him and that will always hinder his career.  If you put him on a team with Big Ben, Rodgers, or Brady than you would see some insane numbers.  Overall I think Green is a superior route runner to Chad, but Chad had that extra level of speed.

Weak Okeana, real weak.

Great WRs should be able to do whatever they want regardless of the QB, even if Dalton was holding back AJ (he isn't).


-DeAndre Hopkins just put up 1,500 yards and 11 TD with Hoyer/Mallett/Yates/Weeden starting at QB. and 1,200/6 the year before with Fitzpatrick/Mallett/Keenum at QB.
-Odell Beckham Jr just put up 1,450 yards and 13 TD and 1,300/12 in 12 games in 2014 with Eli Manning at QB and Eli Manning is statistically inferior to Dalton in Completion %, AVG, TD/INT Ratio, and QB Rating.... aka pretty much every important QB stat.
-Demaryius Thomas just put up 1,300 yards with Osweiller and Noodle Armed Manning.
-Jeremy Maclin put up 1,300/10 in 2014 with Foles and Sanchez at QB.
-Josh Gordon put up 1,650/9 in 2013 with Campbell/Weeden/Hoyer at QB.
-Alshon Jeffery put up 1,400/7 with Jay Cutler at QB in 2013.
-Andre Johnson put up 1,575/8 with Matt Shaub/Sage Rosenfels and 1,400/7 with Matt Schaub/Case Keenum.
-Larry Fitzgerald put up 1,400/8 in 2011 with John Skelton/Kevin Kolb.

-Brandon Marshall has put up 1,100/10 with Kyle Orton, 1,500/11 with Jay Cutler, 1,200/6 with Matt Moore/Chad Henne, and 1,500/14 with Ryan Fitzpatrick............ This player alone should end the conversation.

I could go on and on... fact is, there's WRs producing a lot more with QBs a lot less out there. AJ just needs to step up his game and live up to the title of being among the best in the NFL that he was bestowed with but hasn't really statistically proven.

[Tiger Teeth]

(03-24-2016, 11:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Weak Okeana, real weak.

Great WRs should be able to do whatever they want regardless of the QB, even if Dalton was holding back AJ (he isn't).


-DeAndre Hopkins just put up 1,500 yards and 11 TD with Hoyer/Mallett/Yates/Weeden starting at QB. and 1,200/6 the year before with Fitzpatrick/Mallett/Keenum at QB.
-Odell Beckham Jr just put up 1,450 yards and 13 TD and 1,300/12 in 12 games in 2014 with Eli Manning at QB and Eli Manning is statistically inferior to Dalton in Completion %, AVG, TD/INT Ratio, and QB Rating.... aka pretty much every important QB stat.
-Demaryius Thomas just put up 1,300 yards with Osweiller and Noodle Armed Manning.
-Jeremy Maclin put up 1,300/10 in 2014 with Foles and Sanchez at QB.
-Josh Gordon put up 1,650/9 in 2013 with Campbell/Weeden/Hoyer at QB.
-Alshon Jeffery put up 1,400/7 with Jay Cutler at QB in 2013.
-Andre Johnson put up 1,575/8 with Matt Shaub/Sage Rosenfels and 1,400/7 with Matt Schaub/Case Keenum.
-Larry Fitzgerald put up 1,400/8 in 2011 with John Skelton/Kevin Kolb.

-Brandon Marshall has put up 1,100/10 with Kyle Orton, 1,500/11 with Jay Cutler, 1,200/6 with Matt Moore/Chad Henne, and 1,500/14 with Ryan Fitzpatrick............ This player alone should end the conversation.

I could go on and on... fact is, there's WRs producing a lot more with QBs a lot less out there. AJ just needs to step up his game and live up to the title of being among the best in the NFL that he was bestowed with but hasn't really statistically proven.

Ouch!  Somebody did their homework.  Good post!

[BengalChris]

Voted for Curtis. But AJ should be the best in Bengals history by the time he finishes his current contract.

[Tiger Teeth]

(03-24-2016, 11:30 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Voted for Curtis. But AJ should be the best in Bengals history by the time he finishes his current contract.

Exactly what I did, with the same thinking.

[wolfkaosaun]

Chad Johnson is. You can talk about how the league has changed but Chad was part of that transition. It's gotten a lot more pass happy but he did great things while here.

Most receptions. Most yards. Most touchdowns.

However, Green isn't far behind.

Despite not playing in more than 58 games, Green is 5th in receiving yards, 4th in touchdowns, and 6th in receptions.

But it's not over, he also averages 81.2 yards per game. That's crazy when you think about it. He averages more yards per game than Dez Bryant and more than Terrell Owens while he was a Cowboy. Calvin Johnson averaged 86 yards per game.

Chad Johnson ranked 2nd with 71.4.

[Murdock2420]

It's hard to compare guys from different generations. How would Curtis play in today's NFL with today's rules? The ability to run without fear of getting blown up and guys not being able to hand check. I love when people say Brady or Manning are the best QB's of all time, it just makes me laugh a little. If Joe Montana played in the league with the current rules and was throwing to Jerry Rice with the current rules, no one ever touches their records. QB's have no fear, they aren't allowed to be hit high or low or late. WR's can just go where they want, with no concern for getting blown up by a David Fulcher like hit. I honestly can't vote on this, it's just too hard to really compare the guys.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-25-2016, 12:03 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Chad Johnson is. You can talk about how the league has changed but Chad was part of that transition. It's gotten a lot more pass happy but he did great things while here.

Most receptions. Most yards. Most touchdowns.

However, Green isn't far behind.

Despite not playing in more than 58 games, Green is 5th in receiving yards, 4th in touchdowns, and 6th in receptions.

But it's not over, he also averages 81.2 yards per game. That's crazy when you think about it. He averages more yards per game than Dez Bryant and more than Terrell Owens while he was a Cowboy. Calvin Johnson averaged 86 yards per game.

Chad Johnson ranked 2nd with 71.4.

QBs in the NFL averaged 207.6 yards per game between 2002 and 2007 (Chad's prime).

QB's in the NFL have averaged 235.4 yards per game between 2011 and 2015 (AJ's career).

2002-2007, Chad averaged 83.7 yards per game. Chad in his prime averaged 2.5 yards more per game than AJ, in a time when QBs were throwing 27.8 yards per game less.

[StoneTheCrow]

I'd argue that Chad turning himself into Ocho effing Cinco is a part of the Cincy curse. He was primed to be one of the best ever, but he pissed down his leg when he went WWE persona. AJ will be the best ever in Cincy, but I think Chad is right now. I'm not old enough to remember Curtis, and Collonsworth can **** immediately off.

[Sabretooth]

Isaac Curtis was manhandled on many plays by the defense but still showed up in big games. With him we won playoff games and went to the Superbowl without the big mouth crap. In time it will probably be A.J Green.

[wolfkaosaun]

(03-25-2016, 12:21 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: QBs in the NFL averaged 207.6 yards per game between 2002 and 2007 (Chad's prime).

QB's in the NFL have averaged 235.4 yards per game between 2011 and 2015 (AJ's career).

2002-2007, Chad averaged 83.7 yards per game. Chad in his prime averaged 2.5 yards more per game than AJ, in a time when QBs were throwing 27.8 yards per game less.

Well Chad also had 1 more year on Green when looking at those first few years. So who knows, Green may surpass him.

What I was pointing out is that Green has a ton of potential and has done extremely well.

Also, don't forget, Green had 2 games where he had zero yards. Both in 2014. One where he ended up leaving after the first series, and the Broncos game where he was severely hurt.

Also throw in Johnson started 92 games during that time, Green is only at 76. And they count the games he left while injured.

Fact is, we can't even discuss the two yet because Green still has to keep producing at a high level, but it's very possible he can out perform Chad.

[*SHRacerX*]

I voted Chad. During a 5 year stretch or so, he was the most dominant WR in the league. I remember hearing how Champ Bailey was going to shut him down. The best against the best, and Chad owned him.

One honorable mention: many of you might not have seen Carl Pickens play, but there was a time where I thought that man was the greatest WR of all time, on any team. It was a very, very short time and he was a total head case, but....wow...that guy was incredible.

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2016, 04:29 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote:  I think the 2005 team beats the 2015 team easily with 2005 rules.

That '05 team was not near as good as the '15 team.  They were 3-4 against teams that were .500 or better and the defense was 22nd in points allowed.  The offense was good, but not unstoppable (4th in points scored).

The '15 team was 4-4 against teams that finished .500 or better with the #2 scoring defense and the #7 scoring offense.

[masonbengals fan]

Voted for Chad Johnson but think AJ will be by the time his career is over.

[bengals67]

I loved Chad and hope he comes back to the Bengals in some capacity.

However, he is a distant third

AJ is the most talented WR we have ever had.

But the best was Curtis. He was a warrior playing against the Steelers during an era where CBs could maul WRs before the ball was in the air.

Curtis is one of the most under-rated WRs in NFL history.

He should be in the Hall of Fame and would be if he had played for a New York team or the Steelers.

[Shake n Blake]

A lot of people seem to think AJ can still get better. I just don't see a 6th year WR getting much better. Especially when he really hasn't improved that much since he came in the league. I think we've pretty much seen the best of AJ and it's no better than Chad at his best.

The reason I think AJ will surpass Chad is I believe AJ will age better. After age 30, Chad had a pretty rapid decline. A lot of people like to associate Chad's decline with a silly name change, while neglecting to take his age into account.

I think AJ - with his height and skill set - will be effective deeper into his career

[Shake n Blake]

(03-25-2016, 11:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That '05 team was not near as good as the '15 team.  They were 3-4 against teams that were .500 or better and the defense was 22nd in points allowed.  The offense was good, but not unstoppable (4th in points scored).

The '15 team was 4-4 against teams that finished .500 or better with the #2 scoring defense and the #7 scoring offense.

4-2 with a healthy Dalton.

[gobobro]

Isaac Curtis was a spectacular receiver for his era, but it's too hard to sort through the changes for me to justify calling him the best (and I was young for most of his career)

Carl Pickens was great in the red zone, and the theory was simple. No one could out jump him so you throw high and see if he can catch it... Still, he was a jerk, and he was lazy when the season was lost.

Chad has had the most prolific career so far, but I've never liked his disappearing acts. YAC was a hole in his game as well, in my opinion. Chad had a fetish for the diving catch.

Green, in my opinion, is the "best" receiver. He's disappeared a few times, but he doesn't melt down, and he can get a lot of yards after the catch.

[Night's Watch]

I am going to vote Green with the assumed consistency that he has provided since arriving. Chad was dominate for a long time and I loved how entertaining he was and helped bring visibility to the Bengals at that time. Dalton's deep ball progressed extremely well last season, which will help with Greens numbers, yet if Palmer was throwing to Green, he would have lead the league for a few seasons at this point I believe