Dre Kirkpatrick had offseason shoulder surgery

[Aquapod770]

(05-03-2016, 11:50 AM)Nately120 Wrote: So what do we do about this guy?  We couldn't judge him for 3 years because he was either injured or a "rookie" and now the tape on last season can't be properly evaluated because he was inured the whole time?  Geez...are we ever going to know what this guy can actually do?

3 or 4 more years should do it. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-03-2016, 01:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I have nothing against Dre so much as I find amusement in half a decade of "wait 'n' see" talk about the guy.

Yeah, this.  So far, he has proven to not be worthy of his draft position.

[GodFather]

All that weight he carried around his shoulder as a first rounder and the expectations that came with it finally added up.

[OrlandoBengal]

(05-03-2016, 01:23 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Well yeah... That's how Fred has made a name for himself over the years. He's like the Skip Bayless of Bengal message boards

(05-03-2016, 01:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: As with most things, the truth about DreKirk is probably somewhere in the middle. Is he a really good player? No. Have we seen his best? Probably. Is he as plum awful as some think? Doubtful.

Our pass defense ranked 5th in passer rating and 4th in YPA. I'm not buying that those rankings could be achieved with a garbage starting CB. I'd sum up DreKirk by saying he's been a disappointment and a borderline bust when you consider his injuries and play. I'd also say he's at least serviceable until we find an upgrade. Hopefully WJ3 can be that upgrade.

I think this sums it up.  He is a serviceable cornerback, and "serviceable" is not what you would hope for from a first round draft pick.  You would also hope that a first round pick is starting before his fourth year.  I think that is the main point of animosity towards Kirkpatrick, and also why people are getting frustrated with Dennard.  First round picks should be major contributors before their third and fourth year.  If not, then they probably should not have been first round guys to begin with...

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-02-2016, 07:40 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well sorry to learn that.  Swag never really did pan out, as that 1st round corner that was going to make everyone forget about Jonathan Joseph.  I still have hopes on Dennard coming into his own, and having an excellent pro career.  But, with the addition of William Jackson, Kirkpatrick's days as a Bengal may be numbered.

Well it explains some of his play. I'm hoping he has a much better year now and I would not say his days are numbered, there's nothing wrong with keeping him.

[Older Than You]

With all the Dre hate, makes me wonder if these "fans" even watch Bengals games.

[OrlandoBengal]

(05-03-2016, 03:12 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Well it explains some of his play. I'm hoping he has a much better year now and I would not say his days are numbered, there's nothing wrong with keeping him.

If Dennard and Jackson both pan out, there is not place for Kirkpatrick.

[Luvnit2]

(05-03-2016, 02:40 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, this.  So far, he has proven to not be worthy of his draft position.

No doubt, he has not played up to the level of a mid to late 1st round pick, but most other than the top 5 to 10 don't become instant studs. I believe 13 teams failed to pick up their 5th year option, The Bengals picked it up so maybe since they see him practice and know his responsibilities every play he is better than many in here believe.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-03-2016, 03:13 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: If Dennard and Jackson both pan out, there is not place for Kirkpatrick.

I hope they all Pan out, and sure there will be a spot for Dre.

Adam Jones won't last forever and in this pass happy league, and having a 4th CB that is "serviceable" is a very nice option. I see Jackson as more of a replacement for Leon Hall than I do for Dre. Now if Jackson eventually outplays Dre, Denard and Adam, then so be it.

Look I get it, Dre was picked on a lot last year. Very few CB's are shut down, and even those guys are not perfect, all it takes is 1 or 2 burns and the stats start getting out of whack. Remember 2 years ago when Adam got burned by Steve Smith for one play and his PFF stats were horrible, and it took him 3-4 good games to get his score back up. Now for the Bengals Passing Defense to have finished where it did (adding in the fact we were leading in the majority of our games in the 2nd half thus forcing teams to throw to win), I'd say he did pretty decent. Can he do better? Yes he can, and hopefully he will this year.

Some of you rely too much on the stats from PFF to be your only guiding lights, they are nothing more than a tool that you can use to help evaluate a player along with Common Sense and knowledge of the game itself. Also isn't this the site that had Dri Archer pegged with a first round grade last year?

[XenoMorph]

(05-03-2016, 03:13 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: If Dennard and Jackson both pan out, there is not place for Kirkpatrick.

False you need 4 good corners... Adam jones wont be here by time Jackson needs a new deal. and then when (if) dennard and jackson are starters we will be one injury away from calling chris lewis harris again.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-03-2016, 03:07 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I think this sums it up.  He is a serviceable cornerback, and "serviceable" is not what you would hope for from a first round draft pick.  You would also hope that a first round pick is starting before his fourth year.  I think that is the main point of animosity towards Kirkpatrick, and also why people are getting frustrated with Dennard.  First round picks should be major contributors before their third and fourth year.  If not, then they probably should not have been first round guys to begin with...

Agree 100%. You want more from your first round picks or it just feels like a waste of an affordable rookie contract. 

Hopefully after Dre finishes out this season where he makes $7.6 million, the Bengals move on and let WJ3 start in '17.

I'm guessing Dennard will be taking Leon's spot in the slot this year.

[TKUHL]

(05-02-2016, 08:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You people are ridiculous.

How was our defense able to stop anyone when 4 of our 11 starters are the absolute worst in the league (Maualuga, Peko, Dre, Hawk/Lamur)?

Not just bad, but so bad that it is impossible for them to be any worse.

You would think that NFL Offensive coordinators would find some way to exploit such huge weaknesses in our defense.  Wonder why they didn't just throw the ball at Dre every time?

They did, it was the middle of the field.

[TKUHL]

(05-03-2016, 04:00 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: False you need 4 good corners... Adam jones wont be here by time Jackson needs a new deal.    and then when (if) dennard and jackson are starters we will be one injury away from calling chris lewis harris again.

I can see us taking another DB high in the 2017 draft.

[*Nately120*]

(05-03-2016, 03:13 PM)Older Than You Wrote: With all the Dre hate, makes me wonder if these "fans" even watch Bengals games.

I just get a kick out of the bias on each side.  I remember last offseason when some folks were excited to finally see what Dre can "really do" in his 4th season while having a good laugh that the Steelers took a guy in the 1st (Bud Dupree) who was having issues digesting the playbook in the first week of pre-season.

[Bengalsrob]

(05-03-2016, 10:10 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Agree 100%. You want more from your first round picks or it just feels like a waste of an affordable rookie contract. 

Hopefully after Dre finishes out this season where he makes $7.6 million, the Bengals move on and let WJ3 start in '17.

I'm guessing Dennard will be taking Leon's spot in the slot this year.

There's the real problem Shake, he's getting paid like he's the first round player we drafted. Could have been worse I guess, we could have moved up and drafted Claiborne first like the Cowboys did. What with Norman shaking up the market this year, there's nothing wrong with taking a corner in the first round, unless there's an obvious BPA at another position or we have a bigger need in another area. It may have worked out well the way it shook out for us this year.

[milksheikh]

(05-04-2016, 12:18 AM)TKUHL Wrote: I can see us taking another DB high in the 2017 draft.

Why is everyone forgetting Josh Shaw...

We have arguably one of the most promising cornerback rooms right now..

Josh Shaw showed promise in his rookie year, I saw some pretty good coverage from him. We got him in the 4th round I believe and I think we got really good value. He may never be the starter, but look for him to replace the #4 cornerback spot when/if Kirk leaves here.

[XenoMorph]

(05-03-2016, 03:07 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote:

I think this sums it up.  He is a serviceable cornerback, and "serviceable" is not what you would hope for from a first round draft pick.  You would also hope that a first round pick is starting before his fourth year.  I think that is the main point of animosity towards Kirkpatrick, and also why people are getting frustrated with Dennard.  First round picks should be major contributors before their third and fourth year.  If not, then they probably should not have been first round guys to begin with...

if Kirk is Healthy i see him and Jones starting again... So that would leave Dennard still waiting.... (or being the nickle CB) so if hes not starting day 1 this year will the hate that kirk receives also be given to him?

The Problem isnt that these guys arent good enough to play the problem is the guys in front of them are just as good (or so we believe cause they are starting) and been doing it longer.

I know in the past if a first rounder for us wasnt starting year 2 we were in trouble now isnt the case though we are so deep in so many places.

[Bengalsrob]

(05-03-2016, 10:58 AM)spazz70 Wrote: Like they did with Ratliff and Ghee?

In Ghee's defense (since excuse making is en vogue) he took a shot in a preseason game in Buffalo right in front of me that I don't think he EVER recovered from. Quite possibly the loudest collision I've ever witnessed on a football field, and it was all downhill from there for him.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-04-2016, 08:55 AM)Bengalsrob Wrote: There's the real problem Shake, he's getting paid like he's the first round player we drafted. Could have been worse I guess, we could have moved up and drafted Claiborne first like the Cowboys did. What with Norman shaking up the market this year, there's nothing wrong with taking a corner in the first round, unless there's an obvious BPA at another position or we have a bigger need in another area. It may have worked out well the way it shook out for us this year.

Well Dre's actual rookie contract was only for 4 years/8 million. We picked up his 5th year option and that's why he's making the big bucks this year. In a way, I guess I understand why they'd be willing to pay Dre so much this year. It gives us the opportunity to have WJ3 "red shirt" this season and I'm guessing he'll take over next year.

I have little doubt that DreKirk will be wearing a different uniform in 2017, so getting WJ3 was probably a good move. Especially considering that all the top WRs were gone.

[*Nately120*]

(05-04-2016, 12:35 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I have little doubt that DreKirk will be wearing a different uniform in 2017

Arena League or Burger King?