Hue Jackson 4th Best OC in NFL

[McC]

(06-25-2015, 10:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I hear guys here constantly cry that one of the biggest problems with Bengals coaches is that their is no accountability and that they never hold the players responsible for their poor play.

Then when Hue holds a player accountable for his poor conditioning and play everyone trashes the coach for throwing his player under the bus.

There is no winning with some fans.  They just bithc and moan whatever the coaches do.

There's a difference between accountability and scapegoating.  You know, like the way it was Geno's fault the defense was down last year?

[fredtoast]

(06-26-2015, 10:29 AM)McC Wrote: He can develop a guy.  He's proven that. 

But there's that one damning thing--the turnovers, which all three of his QB's have had in common. 

Maybe he's just been unlucky enough to have gotten three guys with that in their DNA and that's the bottom line.

Maybe it's just a cruel coincidence.  But there's no denying he hasn't been able to fix that in any of them.  Something like that seems a lot like a flaw looking from the outside in.

Palmer and Kitna both had lower interception percentages under Zampses than under other NFL QB coaches.

[fredtoast]

(06-26-2015, 10:31 AM)McC Wrote: Glad you agree with me.  It was a silly thing to do.

I don't agree with you about the comments.

Did you really get that from what i wrote?

[djs7685]

(06-26-2015, 10:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Tate is an above averge kick and punt return man.  the numbers prove it.

There's more to being a good return man than your average per return. Just like there's more to being a QB than volume yardage and more to being a WR than total receptions. I don't think Tate is terrible, but you always seem to cherry pick statistics to prove a nonexistent point. You didn't address anything that bengalfan74 actually said about Tate. You ignored the issues and pointed to his decent averages.

(06-26-2015, 11:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton and Kitna both had lower interception percentages under Zampses than under other NFL QB coaches.

Which other QB coach has Dalton been under?

[fredtoast]

(06-26-2015, 11:50 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Which other QB coach has Dalton been under?

Typo.  Meant Palmer.

[fredtoast]

(06-26-2015, 11:50 AM)djs7685 Wrote: You didn't address anything that bengalfan74 actually said about Tate. You ignored the issues and pointed to his decent averages.

If I was to point out that Tate did not really fumble every other punt return you would have been squealing about how that was just a joke and I should not try and correct anyone when they make a joke.

[djs7685]

(06-26-2015, 11:52 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Typo.  Meant Palmer.

Oh okay, was confused, gotcha.

(06-26-2015, 11:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If I was to point out that Tate did not really fumble every other punt return you would have been squealing about how that was just a joke and I should not try and correct anyone when they make a joke.

I think it was more of an exaggeration than a joke.

Anyway, Tate isn't terrible, but I'd love to see a more dynamic return man for kickoffs. His play a couple years ago was extremely frustrating with the fair catches inside the 5 and running backwards as bengalfan74 mentioned. With that said, I do believe he has realized (or been coached to realize) his mistakes and has been cutting down on the mental weakness of his game. I also believe he's a decent outside WR in emergency situations, so I don't mind him around for another year or two. I do think he has/had issues to complain about though. I think Tate gets a lot of his hate in JN from the year that it seemed like every time he touched the ball (exaggeration) he would do something dumb.

[McC]

(06-26-2015, 11:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Palmer and Kitna both had lower interception percentages under Zampses than under other NFL QB coaches.

Must just be bad luck then, that he keeps getting guys who can't stop throwing it to the other team.   Poor bastard.

[djs7685]

(06-26-2015, 12:25 PM)McC Wrote: Must just be bad luck then, that he keeps getting guys who can't stop throwing it to the other team.   Poor bastard.

I do find it interesting how according to some, coaches get credit for the positives but get excused for their negatives.

[fredtoast]

(06-26-2015, 12:34 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I do find it interesting how according to some, coaches get credit for the positives but get excused for their negatives.

Who said anything like that?

All I did was compare Zampese's coaching to the coaching of others who have worked with the same QBs.  Seems like a logical way to approach the issue.  Especially when it is pretty clear that some QBs will throw more ints than others no matter what the coach does,

[djs7685]

(06-26-2015, 12:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Who said anything like that?

All I did was compare Zampese's coaching to the coaching of others who have worked with the same QBs.  Seems like a logical way to approach the issue.  Especially when it is pretty clear that some QBs will throw more ints than others no matter what the coach does,

A lot of people on here and the old board do similar things.

Marvin is good because of his wins and tenure, Marvin isn't bad because of the primetime and playoff embarrassments.

Hue is good because of Hill being good, but Hue isn't bad because of the wonky playcalling throughout the year.

Zampese is good because our QBs had some good years, but Zampese isn't bad because of the bad years and stats.

Certain people have their guys that they defend a bit more extreme than others. You're just completely ignoring a reality of these boards if you claim that nobody does that sort of thing on here. Like the guy that said Marvin is good because of wins, but when we brought up bad statistics, that same guy in the same thread said "well, coaching is overrated so that stuff isn't on Marvin". Dead serious, that happened. Other people do similar things with other players/coaches all the time. Go ahead and have a conversation with me about Leon Hall, I'll probably be less objective than usual and do some stat spinning because he's been one of my favorite NFL players since the day we drafted him and I have faith in the guy even when he has a rough game or two. Meh, we all do it, just some more than others.

[Shake n Blake]

Just because I don't like how Hue talked about Hill publicly last year doesn't mean that I hate Hue or that I'm "squirting myself" about it. 

It was only his first season as OC here. I'm willing to give him more of a shot.

It seems if you're critical of anything anymore, people think you "hate" the person/player/coach. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(06-26-2015, 05:52 AM)McC Wrote: He didn't do it in the media.  Big difference.  One had his player's backs.  The other stabbed them in the back.

Drama queen much? 

[McC]

(06-26-2015, 02:05 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Drama queen much? 

Yes, he is.  That's Hue in a nutshell.

[DippieDo84@gmail.com]

(06-25-2015, 01:27 AM)J24 Wrote: I like Hue but I don't think he is the 4th best OC in the game.

Why dont you think that hue is a top 4 OC? Hue Jackson was a great assistant coach here, coaching Chad Johnson (2nd round), Chris Henry (3rd Round) and TJ Housmandzadeh (7th round) and turning them into pro bowl caliber players. Dont forget our #4 reciever Kevin Walter ended up being a #2 in houston for a couple years! If slim was still here, he would be an amazing compliment #2 to AJ green, and we would be torching teams left and right, imagine marvin jones or sanu as our #3 where they belong? Anyhow, here are the reasons I would rather have Hue Jackson as OC of OUR team (not any team) over any other OC in the NFL right now. Yes I am that confident in hue.

Bengals WR coach 2004-2006

Falcons OC 2007
After his stint as arguably the best WR coach in our beloved Bengals history, he moved on to the 2007 Falcons who were a huge disaster since Petrino quit on the team, he stood no chance to keep that job since the regime change was coming, so no fault of his own.

Baltimore Ravens QB coach 2008-2009
As the QB coach for the ravens, Hue took an average Joe Flacco and turned him into the first rookie QB to win 2 playoff games, going to the AFC Championschip game. Flacco had a less than steller performance, but he was a rookie .

Oakland Raiders 2010 OC
in 2010, Hue led the RAIDERS, yes that is right he RAIDERS to a top 10 offense (yards), 6th in points scored, with Jason Freaking Campbell at the helm leading the team to a 7-5 record, and Bruce Gradkowski went 1-3 with them. Yes, a top 10 offense with those 2 QB's, and Mcfadden only scored 7 tds and 1100 yards, so lets not pretend it was all the running game. After a 1-3 start, the raiders only scored under 25 pts 3 times the rest of the season (week 6, 9 pts @ 49ers, week11 3 pts @ steelers, and 17 pts vs Dolphins in week 12)
After a 1-3 start, Hue led the offense to a 7-5 record under Campbell/Gradkowski, averaging 27.8 pts per game, and lets face it he made chicken salad out of chicken shizznit.

Oakland Raiders 2011 Head Coach
In 2011 Hue became the raiders head coach, in arguably their best move in the past 15 years. With Al Saunders as OC, and Chuck Breshnahan (I know u guys remember this horrid DC) at defensive coordinator. In october Owner Al Davis dies, and he becomes GM during this season.
The offense went on to become the 9th ranked offense (yards), and 16th in points forced. Hue led his team to an 8-8 record, even after Chuck Breshnahan took a decent raiders defense and turned it into a bottom feeding 29th ranked in Points allowed and yards allowed.
After sustaining injured to both Campbell and Mcfadden, Hue made the most out of a rusty Carson Palmer (via trade) who compiled a meager 13:16 TD:INT ratio, in just 9 games started, with a record of 4-5 as the starting QB (Heck Campbell had a 4-2 record that season). Michael Bush was their leading rusher at 977 yards. Sadly, after a 7-4 start, the raiders fell apart down the stretch (defense and palmer ruined them, not Hue Jackson)

2014-15 Bengals OC
10-5-1 Record
Hue led the Bengals offense to a average rating in both Pts forced (15th) and yards (15th), a middle of the pack rating for his first year as the OC. I think he was still coming into his own as an OC, and instead of trying to force players to run a system he wants like Gruden did, he tailored the offense to suit the talents of his players more and more as he went along. We did win 5 of our last 7 games, although we completely fell apart in the playoffs and there is no way you're going to win a playoff game scoring 10 pts. This does fall on hue jackson, as well as his game plan. Some blame has to of course fall on dalton, but lets not forget nobody played well that day. Not having AJ green does in fact hurt us, but we did well this year when AJ green wasnt in the game and held our own. I knew once Bernard got hurt, he wasnt getting his job back from hill. Hill to me, is our answer at the RB position finally. He can do it all, but having bernard to come in for a series and on 3rd down, is the perfect relief for him. Overall, I think Jackson is the best OC for our bengals, he knows the team better than any other OC around, has a relationship with Mike Brown and Lewis, and is a great fit for us. I think Hue Jackson does in fact, give us the BEST chance at winning a superbowl. He will be the #1 candidate for Head Coach, if Marvin Lewis is fired or retires. I would have rather had Zimmer, but lets face it Hue has experience, has turned a crap team into an 8-8 team, and the offense was good in oakland when he coached there under both roles as OC and HC. How anyone can knock Hue and think that he isnt a great fit for our team, in any coaching role?

[fredtoast]

(06-26-2015, 06:16 PM)DippieDo84@gmail.com Wrote: Why dont you think that hue is a top 4 OC? Hue Jackson was a great assistant coach here, coaching Chad Johnson (2nd round), Chris Henry (3rd Round) and TJ Housmandzadeh (7th round) and turning them into pro bowl caliber players. 

Chad was a Pro Bowl player before hue arrived as WR coach.

[*jason*]

(06-26-2015, 09:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Chad was a Pro Bowl player before hue arrived as WR coach.

....And Chris Henry never was a Pro Bowl caliber player.

[PApinhead]

(06-26-2015, 02:05 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Just because I don't like how Hue talked about Hill publicly last year doesn't mean that I hate Hue or that I'm "squirting myself" about it. 

It was only his first season as OC here. I'm willing to give him more of a shot.

It seems if you're critical of anything anymore, people think you "hate" the person/player/coach. 

Yep... Guess we aren't able to be critical any more.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(06-26-2015, 05:13 PM)McC Wrote: Yes, he is.  That's Hue in a nutshell.

Gonna explain how he stabbed him in the back? 

[Johnny Cupcakes]

Hue Jackson isn't ever the 4th best OC in the AFCN.

Just kidding....he's not that bad. He isn't 4th in the league though.