Andy Dalton, Corner Turned or Weapons Gone?

[GreenCornBengal]

This year will be a big year for Andy (isn't it always?). It seemed like as we approached last season, we were discussing how having all of Andy's weapons back were going to help him turn the corner. In 2014, Eifert was hurt, MLJ was hurt and AJ missed large portions of the season. Dalton had his worst year as a pro, and exited the playoffs quickly again.

2015 comes around, and Andy finally has his weapons back. Eifert turned into a top 5 TE, AJ Green was able to get open with the newly found health of MLJ (and Tyler) and the offense was clicking. Andy Dalton was on the top of his game.

2016 is coming, Eifert is hurt and MLJ/Sanu (the distract the defense from AJ Green squad) is now gone.

My question is, did Andy truly turn the corner last year? Or, was it the stars aligning, with healthy weapons and the 2nd year of Hue Jacksons offense in place that translated into better play?

The answer surely lies somewhere in between, but why do you think Andy will continue progressing like he did last year or why do you think he will regress to something resembling 2013 (which wasn't bad imo). Or perhaps you think he will regress to a 2014 level of play.


I think Andy is a great player, and will make the offense around him work well enough this year to get us to the playoffs (as always). However, I can see the argument that last year was an outlier year, where everything was set up for success and those years don't come around too often....

what do you guys think?

[Essex Johnson]

Well if you look at his overall performance year to year.. 2014 seems like the outlier and 2015 is the accumulated growth of a good QB.

[*jason*]

I just don't think Mohammed and Jones are that big of losses. Eifert is expected to be ready for the season. Andy will be fine.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-06-2016, 05:24 PM)jason Wrote: I just don't think Mohammed and Jones are that big of losses. Eifert is expected to be ready for the season. Andy will be fine.

I don't poke around JN too much (Smack Talk is so much funnier) so it's good to see some other Bengals fans aren't freaking out over their departure.

NFL and ESPN's Facebook pages would have you believe they were the stars and AJ and Eifert were towards the bottom of the progressions. And Bengals fans there eat it up like it's gospel.

[The Burfict Answer]

I think lafell is the x factor, I think boyd will play well as a rookie , assuming eifert will be 100% I don't think we miss a beat,

could be even better offensively if the run game can get back to the year before last .

Point being I think dalton has emerged as a qb that can make others around him better .

[wolfkaosaun]

I think Dalton turned the corner. Sure, no more Sanu and Jones and that will hurt, I think losing Hue is definitely a loss. But we saw Dalton grab hold of the offense. He was given diversity numerous times and fought numerous times.

I think the game(s) that showed how much he turned the corner were the Seahawks game and first Ravens game. He took hold of that offense and did some really great things.

I honestly believe Boyd will surprise quite a few people and (early prediction) will be in talks for ROTY.

[Essex Johnson]

(06-06-2016, 07:12 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I think Dalton turned the corner. Sure, no more Sanu and Jones and that will hurt, I think losing Hue is definitely a loss. But we saw Dalton grab hold of the offense. He was given diversity numerous times and fought numerous times.

I think the game(s) that showed how much he turned the corner were the Seahawks game and first Ravens game. He took hold of that offense and did some really great things.

I honestly believe Boyd will surprise quite a few people and (early prediction) will be in talks for ROTY.

I like Boyd also.. and hope he can fit into the slot role well

[Wes Mantooth]

Not too worried about the departing WR's. I don't think they will be missed that much. In fact, I think there's a chance that our overall corp is stronger.

However, I think Hue is a tremendous loss. I also think Zampese is a lazy hire. In my mind, good chance we see a big drop-off in both creativity and enthusiasm here, translating to, an overall, lesser unit.

So I think you see something that falls in between the production of old and the production of last year. Somewhere around a high 80's to mid 90's rating, with an above average stat line, but not elite, putting him in the top 8-14 category of QB's.

[BFritz21]

Dalton definitely turned the corner and it was a direct result of working with House. He threw better long balls and had more zip on his straight-line throws, which made him confident that he could put a ball anywhere, which confidence is HUGE for a QB.

There was a recent highlight from camp of him throwing a bullet to AJ on an out pattern on the sideline and I immediately though "Andy's back!"

Everyone is flipping out over the loss of Hue, but Hue didn't know how to call situational offenses and didn't play to Andy's strengths, which, being his quarterback coach, Zampese will know his strengths and how to call great games.

I've said all along that Jones and Sanu were products of AJ drawing coverage and Andy capitalizing on less defenders guarding them, which I think that they're in for a rude awakening when they don't have AJ lined up opposite them.

Andy has definitely turned a corner and will put up big numbers and lots of wins this season

[jfkbengals]

(06-06-2016, 08:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Dalton definitely turned the corner and it was a direct result of working with House.  He threw better long balls and had more zip on his straight-line throws, which made him confident that he could put a ball anywhere, which confidence is HUGE for a QB.

There was a recent highlight from camp of him throwing a bullet to AJ on an out pattern on the sideline and I immediately though "Andy's back!"

Everyone is flipping out over the loss of Hue, but Hue didn't know how to call situational offenses and didn't play to Andy's strengths, which, being his quarterback coach, Zampese will know his strengths and how to call great games.

I've said all along that Jones and Sanu were products of AJ drawing coverage and Andy capitalizing on less defenders guarding them, which I think that they're in for a rude awakening when they don't have AJ lined up opposite them.  

Andy has definitely turned a corner and will put up big numbers and lots of wins this season  

Andy worked with House prior to his miserable 2014 campaign.  If you are going to give credit to House for the best season, he must also be given the blame for the worst season.

[Shake n Blake]

I agree with Wes/Toast that losing Hue could hurt and that Zampese wasn't the most inspiring hire. That said, my gut tells me that Andy will have even more input with the offense now. Zampese has never been an OC, so I'm sure Andy will have heavy input and they'll probably shape the playbook around Andy's strengths and routes he prefers, etc.

As for whether we'll see '14 Dalton or the '15 version, like OP said, I think it'll be somewhere in between. Maybe he won't light it up quite as much this season, but I just think Dalton looked much more confident last season and his mechanics were much improved. He almost always set his feet...even when rolling away from pressure. He showed more zip on intermediate/deep throws. The throw that impressed me most came against KC when he rolled away from pressure and flicked a 50 yarder on a rope while still running. It was a thing of beauty.

Fwiw, I think people exaggerate how bad 2014 was. Sure, an 83.5 rating is far from impressive, but there are a lot of good QBs who have had comparable or worse seasons. That said, I do believe Dalton took a step last year and that a repeat of 2014 isn't likely.

I also believe our weapons right now are far better than 2014. AJ Green is healthy (knock on wood) and we have guys like LaFell, Boyd and Tyler Kroft. All good prospects. It's not likely that we'll see a guy like Greg Little on the field this year.

[Joelist]

(06-06-2016, 10:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I agree with Wes/Toast that losing Hue could hurt and that Zampese wasn't the most inspiring hire. That said, my gut tells me that Andy will have even more input with the offense now. Zampese has never been an OC, so I'm sure Andy will have heavy input and they'll probably shape the playbook around Andy's strengths and routes he prefers, etc.

As for whether we'll see '14 Dalton or the '15 version, like OP said, I think it'll be somewhere in between. Maybe he won't light it up quite as much this season, but I just think Dalton looked much more confident last season and his mechanics were much improved. He almost always set his feet...even when rolling away from pressure. He showed more zip on intermediate/deep throws. The throw that impressed me most came against KC when he rolled away from pressure and flicked a 50 yarder on a rope while still running. It was a thing of beauty.

Fwiw, I think people exaggerate how bad 2014 was. Sure, an 83.5 rating is far from impressive, but there are a lot of good QBs who have had comparable or worse seasons. That said, I do believe Dalton took a step last year and that a repeat of 2014 isn't likely.

I also believe our weapons right now are far better than 2014. AJ Green is healthy (knock on wood) and we have guys like LaFell, Boyd and Tyler Kroft. All good prospects. It's not likely that we'll see a guy like Greg Little on the field this year.

I think people need to remember just how bad our weapons were in 2014 when looking at numbers. AJ played hurt most of the year and missed a lot of time. Gresham was borderline useless when he was in and also missed time. Sanu had skillet hands. No Marvin Jones, no Tyler Eifert. When your wheeling Rex Burkhead out as a WR and trying to use Ryan Hewitt as the pass catching TE the signs should be obvious. 

[Shake n Blake]

(06-06-2016, 10:45 PM)Joelist Wrote: I think people need to remember just how bad our weapons were in 2014 when looking at numbers. AJ played hurt most of the year and missed a lot of time. Gresham was borderline useless when he was in and also missed time. Sanu had skillet hands. No Marvin Jones, no Tyler Eifert. When your wheeling Rex Burkhead out as a WR and trying to use Ryan Hewitt as the pass catching TE the signs should be obvious. 

Exactly. There is no comparison between '16 and '14. Even if Eifert misses significant time, we'll still be much better off than when we were using guys like Burkhead, Hewitt and Greg Little. Having Sanu as our #1 WR for 5 games.

[*bengalfan74*]

Dalton showed a fire and passion last season that was mostly missing in previous seasons. Spiking the ball after TD runs, 1st down celebrations and so on.

I believe he was playing with much more confidence and I don't think Sanu/Jones being gone are gonna have much effect. And I don't think at this point in his career OC change is going to have that much negative effect either.

He's turned a corner for sure.

[BengalChris]

(06-06-2016, 04:10 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: This year will be a big year for Andy (isn't it always?). It seemed like as we approached last season, we were discussing how having all of Andy's weapons back were going to help him turn the corner. In 2014, Eifert was hurt, MLJ was hurt and AJ missed large portions of the season. Dalton had his worst year as a pro, and exited the playoffs quickly again.

2015 comes around, and Andy finally has his weapons back. Eifert turned into a top 5 TE, AJ Green was able to get open with the newly found health of MLJ (and Tyler) and the offense was clicking. Andy Dalton was on the top of his game.

2016 is coming, Eifert is hurt and MLJ/Sanu (the distract the defense from AJ Green squad) is now gone.

My question is, did Andy truly turn the corner last year? Or, was it the stars aligning, with healthy weapons and the 2nd year of Hue Jacksons offense in place that translated into better play?

The answer surely lies somewhere in between, but why do you think Andy will continue progressing like he did last year or why do you think he will regress to something resembling 2013 (which wasn't bad imo). Or perhaps you think he will regress to a 2014 level of play.


I think Andy is a great player, and will make the offense around him work well enough this year to get us to the playoffs (as always). However, I can see the argument that last year was an outlier year, where everything was set up for success and those years don't come around too often....

what do you guys think?

First, I believe it's a very good question.

As much as I was down on Dalton after his 2014 season where he clearly couldn't develop any report with the backup receivers even though he had the entire year to do so.

All that said, I do believe he's turned the corner. I think he'll work well with LaFell and Boyd and Kroft. If Dalton can spread the ball around in the first few games, teams won't be able to constantly double Green.

If Hill can get back on track, this offense will not only have high scoring potential, but will be able to put games away by running out the clock.

[J24]

You don't put up numbers like Andy did last season without being very good.

[*Nately120*]

I'm trying to be optimistic, but if someone asked me during Dalton's 2015 run if I wanted him to be throwing to LaFell, Boyd, and Kroft with a different OC instead of Hue I probably would have said "No to Lafell." "Who is Boyd?" "Wait, what happened to Eifert?" and "Is Hue the HC now, or what?"

[magikod]

(06-06-2016, 06:40 PM)The Burfict Answer Wrote: I think lafell is the x factor, I think boyd will play well as a rookie , assuming eifert will be 100% I don't think we miss a beat,

could be even better offensively if the run game can get back to the year before last .

Point being I think dalton has emerged as a qb that can make others around him better .

I think LaFell will finish #2 in receiving yards on our team this year. 

[grampahol]

The House thing I think is a tad overblown being almost every QB, including backups and college players go to his camp or whatever you call it. Has he helped Andy? Sure, but he probably added some support to even J Football (I guess)
Rosters are always changing as young players come into the league and older players exit and indeed Andy will someday hang it up.
Andy did great in 14 being most of the offense was out most of the season and it's always going to be true that the QB has to have someone who can catch the ball to be a great QB.. The great receivers aren't paid multi million dollar contracts because they're just soso receivers. They get the big contracts because they can and often do make soso QBs look great and the same applies for QBs. When both the QB and receivers are great you get something really special and special isn't an everyday occurrence.
Andy's going to be just fine.

[Brownshoe]

(06-07-2016, 02:37 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm trying to be optimistic, but if someone asked me during Dalton's 2015 run if I wanted him to be throwing to LaFell, Boyd, and Kroft with a different OC instead of Hue I probably would have said "No to Lafell."  "Who is Boyd?"  "Wait, what happened to Eifert?"  and "Is Hue the HC now, or what?"

If someone asked me if I would take LaFell over Marvin Jones before the season started in 2015 I would have said yes. If Boyd magically went back in time and have his rookie season last year I probably would have taken him over Sanu. I wouldn't take Kroft over Eifert, but let's be real here. We don't even know if Eifert is going to miss any games. I thought that Hue was a good OC, but I think most people overestimate him. There's a reason why he couldn't get a OC job, and had to become a RBs coach again.