Confidence Now vs. This Time Last Year

[yellowxdiscipline]

Im less confident, free agent losses, and injuries have got to me. We aren't as good as team as we were last year.

But better we get the injury bug out of the way now then later on in the year.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-05-2016, 12:05 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This time last year I had no idea if Burfict or Atkins would ever be the same players they were before.

This time last year Andy Dalton had never been a top 10 QB in passer efficiency.

This time last year Eifert was a TE who had more major injuries (3) than tds (2) in his career.

You have to be a super negative thinker to be less confident this year than last year.

This pretty much nailed it for me.  Ditto, and rep. 

I will add that I think improvements on the offensive line, Hill in his contract year, and the fact that last year they showed that they could play with anyone, anywhere, on a short week, etc.  Not being a homer, but if I were Vegas, I can't imagine why any other team would be a bigger favorite to win the Super Bowl.  I had much greater opinions of the Ravens, steelers, Cards, Panthers, Broncos, and Dolphins last year at this time than I do this year.  

There are also a lot of new pieces that I think can contribute this year:  Boyd, Vigil, Billings, and one veteran that has recently won a ring, Lafell.

I am much more optimistic this year.  

[grampahol]

There's nothing lazy about promoting Z to OC. The guy knows AD well and knows the offense as well as anyone else they might have hired instead. If anyone is being lazy about it its the OP for saying the Zampeze promotion is lazy.
I have zero problems with Zampeze being promoted. He's been around the league all his life and I'm every bit as confident about this team as I was last season if not more so..

[CageTheBengal]

(08-05-2016, 03:35 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I thought I would take a quick sec to respond to your assumption.  No, I wouldn't say it would be fair to say that I considered Guenther a lazy hire.  At least not to the same degree as Zampese.  Did it raise an eyebrow?  Yeah, probably.  I'm not sure I can ever fully trust that they are doing their due diligence when an in-house promotion comes up.  And that's just from my perspective.  But to each their own.

The reason I didn't have as much issue with the Gunther hire is that his career path is a tad more typical.  He didn't come on here until Zimmer came in and he's slowly gained more and more responsibility.  Had he not been promoted here he probably would have gotten a look elsewhere.

But Zampese?  13 seasons as QB coach here.  T-H-I-R-T-E-E-N.  That's a long time to be a position coach.  Long, long time.  Why was he never hired away?  In 13 seasons not a single team gave him a job as an OC.  Why is that? 

Why wasn't a team, who pays top dollar for their staff, dropping off a truck full of cash to make him their QB coach at least?  You mean to tell me he was one of the highest paid position coaches here?  Not only did he not get hired away as an OC, he didn't get hired away as a higher paid position coach.  That raises eyebrows.

And you know what bothers me most, why didn't we promote him when Brat was fired?  Why did we promote him when Jay left?  Two times we needed an OC, and he had more seniority than anyone, yet he didn't get the job.  Why is that?

And none of this even takes into account how I think of his QB's progress history.  Palmer had his best year in year 2, his first full season starting.  He, in my mind, got progressively worse.  And some may disagree with this, but Dalton didn't exactly make leaps and bounds progress until Hue took over.  (Coincidence?)  Year 1 to 2 improvement wasn't huge and was to be expected with added experience.  Year 2 to 3 wasn't a huge leap.  Year 3 to 4 was a huge decline.  And then finally last season.

I'm just saying, it's not like he has an unbelievable track record as a QB coach.  It's ok, but far, far from great.

It's for these reasons I question the hire, not just because or only that he was in house.  Why did he stay in one spot for so long, why was passed over multiple times?  Which leaves me with my current question: Was he really the best option of everyone out there or does this team value familiarity more than actual ability?

I think they actually have done more then their share of homework on the in house guys because they work with them every day of the season. That's much more time spent then you can possibly spend trying to do interviews and you're actually seeing how they coach in person. Marvin has proven he can hire quality coordinators so with that in mind I don't know why he would promote a guy before he's ready. He knows the job and the qualifications. On one hand you wanna say you can't trust the organization to do their due diligence and then use it against them that they passed on Zampese twice when an OC position arose. If I remember right from what I've read Zampese was passed on the first time (When Jay was hired.) because Lewis didn't feel like he was ready. When Hue was OC it was just a no brainer to promote him from RB coach he was hands down the most qualified. Jay came from the outside, Hue fell from Head Coach to out of the NFL until Marvin threw him a bone and Zampese has been here 13 years learning. Those are 3 totally different OCs from totally different backgrounds.

I didn't think anything was typical about the Guenther hiring and I had some of the issues with that hiring that you do with Zampese being hired. He was basically a no name coach to fans and the only confidence we had in him was that he tutored under Zimmer and we were told he helped design the blitzes. Why was he never hired to be a DC before now? It didn't really matter at the end of the day Lewis knew he could do the job and he hired him.  Really the only difference between the two is one guy has been here 13 years.

If you believe in the guy that you've worked with practically every day and it's a good fit why would you pass on him? He knows the players, he knows what works and what doesn't and he has already meshed with the organization. I see your points but I think the positives outweigh the negatives on this one.

[samhain]

The progress Andy made last season goes a long way. I definitely feel better about him and by extension the team in general. My only concern is the injuries striking so soon.

[fredtoast]

As for Zampese, the one thing the Bengals have proven they are good at is finding OC's. Many Bengal fans pithced a fit when we hired a guy from the Arena League, but Gruden was a huge success. More people were happy with Hue, but the fact is that when the Bengals hire him he had to take a low level assistant position (special teams/ assistan DB coach). No team in the league wanted him as an OC, but again he was a big success. So I have plenty of faith in their choice of Zampese.

Funny how the same people who bash Zampese for not moving up for 13 years were sure Mike Zimmer would be a great head coach even though he had been stuck as a Coordinator for 13 years without moving up.

For some reason many people just do not like Zampese despite all the success he has had with quarterbacks. (Kitna NFL Comeback PLayer of the Year, Palmer multiple Pro Bowls, Dalton multiple Pro Bowls)

[Daddy-O]

(08-05-2016, 11:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: As for Zampese, the one thing the Bengals have proven they are good at is finding OC's.  Many Bengal fans pithced a fit when we hired a guy from the Arena League, but Gruden was a huge success.  More people were happy with Hue, but the fact is that when the Bengals hire him he had to take a low level assistant position (special teams/ assistan DB coach).  No team in the league wanted him as an OC, but again he was a big success.  So I have plenty of faith in their choice of Zampese.

Funny how the same people who bash Zampese for not moving up for 13 years were sure Mike Zimmer would be a great head coach even though he had been stuck as a Coordinator for 13 years without moving up.

For some reason many people just do not like Zampese despite all the success he has had with quarterbacks. (Kitna NFL Comeback PLayer of the Year, Palmer multiple Pro Bowls, Dalton multiple Pro Bowls)

It's called succession planning.  All companies do it, some obviously better than others.  History shows the Bengals under Marvin Lewis do it petty well.  For that reason I think Zampese will do just fine.

[wolfkaosaun]

More confident.

Andy took a step back. The defense also took a step back. Jones couldn't stay healthy. Eifert couldn't stay healthy. Atkins only had 3 sacks all season. Heck, that defense only had 20 sacks all season. Last year, Dunlap and Atkins surpassed that combined.

The 2014 team had it's injuries, sure. But almost everyone on the team seemed to have taken a step back.

I do believe we are going to miss Hue and Jones more than we are admitting. Possibly even Nelson. But this team still has a ton of talent and has shown they can grow.

So definitely more confident. I don't think many people saw us after 2014 going 8-0 and Dalton being in the talks of MVP before injury.

2015 we almost won a playoff game. With our backup QB. So yes, definitely more confident.

[*Go Cards*]

More confident on defense, lose Nelson which is big hit but know Williams can get it done.

But offense has question marks.

Ecstatic with how Dalton played last season, yet Olines run blocking, WR's, and Eiferts health are concerning. Believe all will work out for the Bengals best interest, but still want to see it first.

Still am very optimistic about upcoming season and confident about winning division still as well.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-05-2016, 05:43 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: I'm going to go with less because vibes. The talent is all there i just don't have any evidence to support Marvin being the guy to take this team all the way. 7-9, 16-0 what difference does it make if you can't win a damn PO game? This talent is most likely gonna go to waste and it's sad. We will always look back at this group of guys as the ones that should have taken us to the top. One of the best Bengals teams ever assembled. (Marvin gets GM like props here)

The Steeler debacle messed me up bad regardless of the bad calls. Once that game was over i immediately thought this team was done unless big changes were made at the coaching level. Afterall how much more heartbreak can these guys take before its starts to take its toll mentally?

All we managed to do was lose guys that weren't the problem.

Hopefully the players are not in such a fragile state as you AO...

Actually from watching the interviews and how they are practicing i know they are not. Damn good thing.

[masterpanthera_t]

I'm very confident in the defense. Last year Burfict wasn't available for the first six games, this year only the first three. Picking up Dansby enhances the coverage options at linebacker a great deal. I feel that the secondary is strong simply because the younger guys have had one more year to learn and can fill in better.

On offense, I'm less confident, but maybe I can talk myself into being equally confident as last year. The RB position is at the same level. The QB position is slightly improved because, McCarron has more experience and the confidence of the team, and of course Andy has made a big leap last year. The linemen are better IMO with the addition of Westerman and the replacing of Andre with Cedric. Eifert and Kroft are hurt, but if both of them can come back at the start of the season, then this can be considered an upgrade because Kroft should be much better now than he was as a rookie last year. Combine that with the solid play of Hewitt and Uzomah improving (at least the Bengals.com site spins it that way) and the TE position is better this year. My only concerns is the WR position. AJ is as good or better than last year, and I feel Boyd and/or LaFell will be an upgrade over Sanu (who I don't think is much of a loss at all). However, it remains to be seen if Marvin Jones can be replaced by either Boyd or LaFell, because IMO he brought more speed than the other two, who have a different style of playing. But I wouldn't be surprised if the team doesn't miss a beat.

With all that said, the major unknown is going to be injuries. While last year was very lucky in terms of injuries (until the major one to Andy at the end of the year), I can only hope that they don't have any major injuries during the course of the year. I still feel better with all the additions on both offense and defense (LaFell, Boyd, Billings, Dansby Ogbuehi), but don't know how this will translate record wise because the schedule is brutal at times.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-05-2016, 02:14 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I'm very confident in the defense.  Last year Burfict wasn't available for the first six games, this year only the first three.  Picking up Dansby enhances the coverage options at linebacker a great deal.  I feel that the secondary is strong simply because the younger guys have had one more year to learn and can fill in better.  

On offense, I'm less confident, but maybe I can talk myself into being equally confident as last year.  The RB position is at the same level. The QB position is slightly improved because, McCarron has more experience and the confidence of the team, and of course Andy has made a big leap last year.  The linemen are better IMO with the addition of Westerman and the replacing of Andre with Cedric.   Eifert and Kroft are hurt, but if both of them can come back at the start of the season, then this can be considered an upgrade because Kroft should be much better now than he was as a rookie last year.  Combine that with the solid play of Hewitt and Uzomah improving (at least the Bengals.com site spins it that way) and the TE position is better this year.  My only concerns is the WR position.  AJ is as good or better than last year, and I feel Boyd and/or LaFell will be an upgrade over Sanu (who I don't think is much of a loss at all).  However, it remains to be seen if Marvin Jones can be replaced by either Boyd or LaFell, because IMO he brought more speed than the other two, who have a different style of playing.  But I wouldn't be surprised if the team doesn't miss a beat.

With all that said, the major unknown is going to be injuries.  While last year was very lucky in terms of injuries (until the major one to Andy at the end of the year), I can only hope that they don't have any major injuries during the course of the year.  I still feel better with all the additions on both offense and defense (LaFell, Boyd, Billings, Dansby Ogbuehi), but don't know how this will translate record wise because the schedule is brutal at times.

Good job bringing Westerman into the conversation. This guy could be a great pick for us.

Also, i understand why people are hesitant to think we have replaced MLJ. I don't know that either.

Cody Core has that speed with more size but he is only a rookie. Alford has that speed but not the hands or size.

The first 6 games are definately tough and for one or two of them we might not have Eifert and the first three we
know we don't have Burfict. I still think we should go atleast 3-3 early, we will see though. Chemistry will be an
issue early, that we know. Good thing we play the Jets first who don't have the greatest Offense and the Steelers
next who have a sad looking Secondary.

Uzomah's play is definately a positive as of late. At 6'6" 271 lbs with his speed, dude...

[BURROWorBUST]

(08-05-2016, 09:30 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Im less confident, free agent losses, and injuries have got to me. We aren't as good as team as we were last year.

But better we get the injury bug out of the way now then later on in the year.

The injuries have me worried a bit, too, shaking the confidence that I had post-draft and post-Dansby signing. But Eifert and Kroft ought to be back soon enough. WJ3 would have been great depth and might have pushed to start by the end of the year. Dennard needs to get healthy and stay healthy. Hopefully, the injury bug will subside. 

On the positive side, based on clips from camp, AJ Green has never looked better. He looks stronger. He's going to be scary this year.

I still think we make the playoffs. As always, I think our success rests with our Oline. If they can get the running game going, we're going to be formidable. I'd love to beat the Patriots in Foxboro. 

[masterpanthera_t]

(08-05-2016, 02:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Good job bringing Westerman into the conversation. This guy could be a great pick for us.

Also, i understand why people are hesitant to think we have replaced MLJ. I don't know that either.

Cody Core has that speed with more size but he is only a rookie. Alford has that speed but not the hands or size.

The first 6 games are definately tough and for one or two of them we might not have Eifert and the first three we
know we don't have Burfict. I still think we should go atleast 3-3 early, we will see though. Chemistry will be an
issue early, that we know. Good thing we play the Jets first who don't have the greatest Offense and the Steelers
next who have a sad looking Secondary.

Uzomah's play is definately a positive as of late. At 6'6" 271 lbs with his speed, dude...

I forgot to mention that between James Wright, Boyd and LaFell, we have the 3rd WR position covered ( remains to be seen how Wright's health is maintained).  I feel that LaFell should give the same or slightly better production that Marvin Jones provided, but I am not certain of this yet.  I'm hoping Alford picks up the punt return duties, but from what I've read so far, this isn't something I would bet on.  From the way Bengals.com (a quote from McCarron) was singing his praises, I feel like Uzomah will become a poor man's Antonio Gates or better by next year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-05-2016, 03:38 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I forgot to mention that between James Wright, Boyd and LaFell, we have the 3rd WR position covered ( remains to be seen how Wright's health is maintained).  I feel that LaFell should give the same or slightly better production that Marvin Jones provided, but I am not certain of this yet.  I'm hoping Alford picks up the punt return duties, but from what I've read so far, this isn't something I would bet on.  From the way Bengals.com (a quote from McCarron) was singing his praises, I feel like Uzomah will become a poor man's Antonio Gates or better by next year.

Amazing Wright is practicing as well as he is after not playing for so long. I still remember him making some plays
before he went down back in the day. Boyd has looked great so far. Lafell i thought the same thing but have not
heard much about him so far which gives me some pause.

Uzomah is much bigger and faster than Gates but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Gates was great.

Very encouraging though with those traits and the fact he is impressing. McCarron is no fool, i don't think it is
false praise coming from him especially after watching the vids. I honestly didn't expect this much from CJ this
early, this is very good news for us where we were looking very thin.

[Bengal Dude]

I'm more confident, but I wasn't too confident entering the 2015 season. Even though we went 10-5-1 in 2014, we still seemed to have some big questions. We had no idea if Andy was truly a franchise QB for us or not. That was the big one.

We now know what Dalton can do out there and I think his knowledge can help us overcome any deficiencies that Zampese brings to the table. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

About the same. The roster, for the most part, is the same. There have been more changes in the staff, but I think they promoted from within for continuity. I think they are good enough to make the playoffs. However, I don't think Marvin provides the type of leadership to keep the players focused and disciplined enough not to mentally implode in pressure situations like last year's playoff loss.  Unless the veterans provide that type of leadership, I don't expect a different result than what we have seen in recent seasons. 

[*bengalfan74*]

Regular Season : Equally Confident - We'll do good

Post Season : Less Confident - ML has way more than proven he can't get over the hump.

[*Awful Llama*]

(08-05-2016, 08:59 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Regular Season : Equally Confident - We'll do good

Post Season : Less Confident - ML has way more than proven he can't get over the hump.

Have to agree, unfortunately.  They'll pull off their typically good regular season performance and then meet with the same fate in the playoffs.  

Meh, still beats being a Browns fan.  

[Shake n Blake]

I have reasons why I feel more optimistic AND more pessimistic than last year. Overall, I guess it all balances out and I feel more or less the same about our chances.

Negatives:

- Hue is gone
- Nelson is gone (easily our biggest loss, IMO)
- Tez suspended 3 games
- Working in new WRs
- Eifert will likely miss at least a few games

Positives:

- The Steelers have issues as well (No Bryant or Heath, Bell suspended/injury prone, weak D, etc)
- The Ravens have a very weak looking roster
- The Browns are the Browns
- The Broncos are quarterbacked by Butt Fumble
- The Pats are without Brady for 4 games
- There (should be) no doubts about Andy's status as a franchise QB at this point

----------------

Just looking at the AFC, it looks like the Bengals are the most talented and stable team, while the other power teams look more and more vulnerable. So why not now? Even though I remain pessimistic about our playoff odds with Marv at the helm, I have to admit the team actually came to play for once this January. I'm not sure if they really turned a corner or if they just benefited from knowing the Steelers so well. Still, they did find a way to lose the game.

Honestly, I don't know what to feel about this team anymore. I guess it's another year of "wait and see".