Marvin #12

[PApinhead]

I'm not a Marvin Lewis fan at all, but I'd say this ranking is about right. He has done a good job of turning this team around and has shown he can at least make a team a winning team. Now all he has to do is make it a playoff winning team. No way he could be any higher until he wins at least a couple playoff games.

[GreenCornBengal]

(07-03-2015, 01:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then why did you quote my comment that said nothing about Rex Ryan?


Lighten up Francis.


Rex Ryan was handed a talented, winning team.  He had some success for a couple of years and then ran it into the ground.

He has accomplished more than than Marvin, but I am not really that impressed.

I quoted your dom capers comment because it was a response to my rex ryan comment?



but anywho, if that is how you feel about Rex Ryan, then you must feel the same way about Jim Harbaugh. He inherited a good team, had success for a couple of years and ran the franchise into the ground. Where would you rank him if he was still an NFL coach on this list?

The point being, both guys were able to get their teams to the championship game (or further) in half the time Marvin has had.

It all depends on how you look at things, but I think many of our fans would give up perennial playoff births for one championship game or a superbowl appearance.

[Benton]

A third(ish) of the coaches have been head coaches less than three seasons. And they've got about as good a record as Marvin — .500. But Marvin ranks higher with... his astoundingly bad playoff record?

If the ultimate goal is to win it all, Marvin is doing a horrible job. If the ultimate job is to have a decent regular season, then, yes, he's doing alright.

[EatonFan]

I'd personally put Marvin about 16 - 18. He's Mr. Average. He's taken the Bengals to six playoffs with two different QBs (Kinda 3 if you count Kitna when Palmer went down). By far the biggest knock is his record in big games. He's great at evaluating talent which keeps him in the middle. I would love to see him break out of this stagnation.

[fredtoast]

(07-04-2015, 12:25 AM)Benton Wrote:

A third(ish) of the coaches have been head coaches less than three seasons. And they've got about as good a record as Marvin — .500. But Marvin ranks higher with... his astoundingly bad playoff record?

If the ultimate goal is to win it all, Marvin is doing a horrible job. If the ultimate job  is to have a decent regular season, then, yes, he's doing alright.

How do you win it all if you don't make the playoffs?

This poll is about who is the best coach right now, not 6 years ago.

[fredtoast]

(07-03-2015, 03:26 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: It all depends on how you look at things, but I think many of our fans would give up perennial playoff births for one championship game or a superbowl appearance.

Then who is this available coach who will take us to the championship or Super Bowl? 

[EatonFan]

(07-04-2015, 10:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Then who is this available coach who will take us to the championship or Super Bowl? 

I don't believe there is one out there to get which is why Marvin Lewis remains our coach.  He gives us our best shot currently to not only make the playoffs, but also to reach the super bowl. That said I'd put Zimmer above him right now, just from a potential standpoint.  I think he'll be a good HC for a long time.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-04-2015, 10:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Then who is this available coach who will take us to the championship or Super Bowl? 

Question Fred ? Has there never been a first time Super Bowl winning coach ? Does every coach that wins it all start off with playoff success and big game wins already on his resume ? Did Belichick pop into existence with his resume ? Did Tom Landry start with 2 Super Bowl wins before his first NFL season ?

Where do you get the idea that no HC can replace Lewis without a jaw dropping resume and have success ?

[fredtoast]

(07-04-2015, 11:56 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Question Fred ? Has there never been a first time Super Bowl winning coach ? Does every coach that wins it all start off with playoff success and big game wins already on his resume ? Did Belichick pop into existence with his resume ? Did Tom Landry start with 2 Super Bowl wins before his first NFL season ?

Where do you get the idea that no HC can replace Lewis without a jaw dropping resume and have success ?

But there is a good reason that it is very rare for a HC to be fired after making the playoffs four years in a row.  I'd be all for taking a chance on any random guy if our team was a mess, but it isn't.  And there have been guys who won in their first season, but there have been many more guys who did not.

To me it comes down to this.  If your team is a mess and your current coach is losing then it is acceptable to take a chance on an unknown, but if you are beating top teams and making the playoffs every year you don't replace your coach unless you have a proven upgrade.

[GreenCornBengal]

(07-04-2015, 11:56 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Question Fred ? Has there never been a first time Super Bowl winning coach ? Does every coach that wins it all start off with playoff success and big game wins already on his resume ? Did Belichick pop into existence with his resume ? Did Tom Landry start with 2 Super Bowl wins before his first NFL season ?

Where do you get the idea that no HC can replace Lewis without a jaw dropping resume and have success ?

THIS^



I don't see why there is this notion that we need to replace Marvin with some big name HC that we all already know.

Sean Peyton and Mike McCarthy were both Offensive coordinators before becoming head coaches.

Both of them won superbowls with their teams fairly quickly, and they didn't inherit world beating teams either. (especially Sean Petyon)

It can be done, the Bengals just need to crawl out of their shell and take a chance.

[GreenCornBengal]

(07-04-2015, 12:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But there is a good reason that it is very rare for a HC to be fired after making the playoffs four years in a row.  I'd be all for taking a chance on any random guy if our team was a mess, but it isn't.  And there have been guys who won in their first season, but there have been many more guys who did not.

To me it comes down to this.  If your team is a mess and your current coach is losing then it is acceptable to take a chance on an unknown, but if you are beating top teams and making the playoffs every year you don't replace your coach unless you have a proven upgrade.

Marty Schottenheimer comes to mind when I think of Marvin.

He got into the playoffs many many times, and even won playoff games, but in the end nothing ever came of it.

All of the teams he coached for eventually moved on.

If you are fine with having stability at the coaching position, then Marty and Marvin are your guys.

They just can't seem to finish in the playoffs however, for whatever reason... it may even be just bad luck.

[GreenCornBengal]

Also Schotty resigned after 10 seasons in KC... probably the only way Marvin leaves us.

[fredtoast]

(07-04-2015, 12:15 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I don't see why there is this notion that we need to replace Marvin with some big name HC that we all already know.

Sean Peyton and Mike McCarthy were both Offensive coordinators before becoming head coaches.

Both of them won superbowls with their teams fairly quickly, and they didn't inherit world beating teams either. (especially Sean Petyon)

It can be done, the Bengals just need to crawl out of their shell and take a chance.

Wow, two guys did it in the last 10 years.  That means it "happens all the time"  So let's just ignore  Chan Gailey, Doug Marone, Mark Trestman, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Jason Garrett, Rob Marinelli, Jim Schwartz, Mike Mularky, Gus Bradley, Joe Philbin, Leslie Frazier, Lane Kiffen, Tom Cable, Norv Turner, Art Shell, Dennis Allen, Tony Sparano, Steve Spagnuolo, Scott Linehan, Jeff Fisher, Raheem Morris, Greg Shiano, Mike Munchak, Ken whisenhunt, Jim Zorn, Mike Shanahan, or Jay Gruden.

All we have to do is "take a chance" and we will immediately have a Super Bowl winning team.

And let's just ignore the fact that the Saints only took a chance on Peyton after going 3-13, and the Packers only took a chance on McCarthy after going 4-12. These two guys are perfect examples of why we should replace our winning coach with a complete unknown.

[GreenCornBengal]

(07-04-2015, 12:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wow, two guys did it in the last 10 years.  That means it "happens all the time"  So let's just ignore  Chan Gailey, Doug Marone, Mark Trestman, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Jason Garrett, Rob Marinelli, Jim Schwartz, Mike Mularky, Gus Bradley, Joe Philbin, Leslie Frazier, Lane Kiffen, Tom Cable, Norv Turner, Art Shell, Dennis Allen, Tony Sparano, Steve Spagnuolo, Scott Linehan, Jeff Fisher, Raheem Morris, Greg Shiano, Mike Munchak, Ken whisenhunt, Jim Zorn, Mike Shanahan, or Jay Gruden.

All we have to do is "take a chance" and we will immediately have a Super Bowl winning team.

And let's just ignore the fact that the Saints only took a chance on  Peyton after going 3-13, and the Packers only took a chance on McCarthy after going 4-12.  These two guys are perfect examples of why we should replace our winning coach with a complete unknown.

You're clearly misinterpreting what I am trying to say.

I'm not saying replacing Marvin makes us go to the Super Bowl.

I'm saying this organization and yourself are too scared to even ponder it.

He could get replaced and we could fall into the celler.
He could get replaced and we could do even better.

We KNOW what we are going to get with Marvin. If you can't see that after 12+ years then IDK what to tell ya.

You really think Marvin Lewis is going to magically take this team to the SB this season? or the next? or the next?
Do you REALLY feel deep inside that 12 years of no playoff victories is just bad luck and coincedince?

You can sit here in stagnant mediocrity if you want, but the rest of us want something different.

If anything, Sean Peyton and Mike McCarthy should give you faith that if we replaced Marvin with a shit coach, there is a decent coach just around the corner

[PApinhead]

(07-04-2015, 12:51 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: You're clearly misinterpreting what I am trying to say.

I'm not saying replacing Marvin makes us go to the Super Bowl.

I'm saying this organization and yourself are too scared to even ponder it.

He could get replaced and we could fall into the celler.
He could get replaced and we could do even better.

We KNOW what we are going to get with Marvin. If you can't see that after 12+ years then IDK what to tell ya.

You really think Marvin Lewis is going to magically take this team to the SB this season? or the next? or the next?
Do you REALLY feel deep inside that 12 years of no playoff victories is just bad luck and coincedince?

You can sit here in stagnant mediocrity if you want, but the rest of us want something different.

If anything, Sean Peyton and Mike McCarthy should give you faith that if we replaced Marvin with a shit coach, there is a decent coach just around the corner

^^^^^^^Exactly!!!! Is there a chance Marvin could luck into a playoff win? Sure. But that's about it. I have no confidence that he will take us on a playoff run and into the Super Bowl. We have seen how he is capable of preparing his teams and it really isn't that great. I am more than ready to give someone else a shot at doing something with this team. As for who I have in mind? I don't really have anyone specific right now. Maybe at the end of the season, when we have probably yet again failed to get a playoff win and we see what coaches are available then, I could give you someone.

[fredtoast]

(07-04-2015, 12:51 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: We KNOW what we are going to get with Marvin.

No you don't.

I have been around long enough to hear people say that they KNEW we would never make the playoffs in back to back years under Marvin.

In 2012 there were people here who KNEW that we could not beat the Stealers with a playoff spot on the line.

Just last year there were a lot of people who KNEW that we could not beat the Broncos on Monday night.

Forrest Gregg and Sam Wyche both had losing records as head coaches before taking us to the Super Bowl, so if you had been around back then you would have KNOWN that it was impossible for them to do that.

The one thing that is consistent for pretty much every NFL season.  There will be teams, coaches, and players who do things they have never done before.  

The facts is that you don't KNOW that Marvin can not take us to the Super Bowl.  That is just your opinion.

[GreenCornBengal]

(07-04-2015, 01:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Forrest Gregg and Sam Wyche both had losing records as head coaches before taking us to the Super Bowl, so if you had been around back then you would have KNOWN that it was impossible for them to do that.

It took Gregg 1 year? and Wyche 3-4

We have had MUCH longer to evaluate what we KNOW about Marvin Lewis.

He has been here 3 times as long, and hasn't even come close.

By your logic, every team should just stick with the coach they have, cuz hell YA NEVER KNOW!!

[PApinhead]

(07-04-2015, 01:33 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: It took Gregg 1 year? and Wyche 3-4

We have had MUCH longer to evaluate what we KNOW about Marvin Lewis.

He has been here 3 times as long, and hasn't even come close.

By your logic, every team should just stick with the coach they have, cuz hell YA NEVER KNOW!!

You know, we probably should just cut all of our rookies and bring back anyone we cut from last year's team too.  I mean we made the playoffs with them, so why change anything?  Last year's team should be all we need to get us some playoff wins and maybe a Super Bowl.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-04-2015, 12:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But there is a good reason that it is very rare for a HC to be fired after making the playoffs four years in a row.  I'd be all for taking a chance on any random guy if our team was a mess, but it isn't.  And there have been guys who won in their first season, but there have been many more guys who did not.

To me it comes down to this.  If your team is a mess and your current coach is losing then it is acceptable to take a chance on an unknown, but if you are beating top teams and making the playoffs every year you don't replace your coach unless you have a proven upgrade.

Fred if we were improving every year I'd whole heartedly agree with you. But the facts are we are barely slipping into the playoffs and when we get there we don't even look like we belong !

And it's the same every season. We're not slugging it out getting beat in the last minute by a field goal. We get embarrassed - bad !

[PApinhead]

(07-04-2015, 02:08 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Fred if we were improving every year I'd whole heartedly agree with you. But the facts are we are barely slipping into the playoffs and when we get there we don't even look like we belong !

And it's the same every season. We're not slugging it out getting beat in the last minute by a field goal. We get embarrassed - bad !

Yep!!!!  Simply out-coached!!!