For all who wish we kept Brown over Nugent...

[Shake n Blake]

(08-20-2016, 03:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My overall message is that I wish we had a better kicker, but I am not going to call for him to be cut because any other kicker off the street would be better.

My criticism is aimed at the people who claim that Nugent is the only kicker in the league who misses enough FGs to make them feel "uncomfortable" every time he kicks when in fact there are very few kickers in the league who are a lot better than Nugent.  there were 157 missed FGs in the NFL last year and Nugent only had 5 of them.  So these people are going to feel uncomfortable no matter who we have kicking.  

Nuge missed 5 of 28 attempts last year.  The elite kickers who make 90% of their kicks are still going to miss 3.  So i don't see how 2 more made FGs over a 16 game schedule are really going to make all these nuge-haters feel that much more comfortable.

Plus there are guys out there like

the Cards

Chandler Catanzaro who hit over 90% of his FGs but missed 5 extra points, and the Seahawks Steven Hauschka who also hit over 90% of his FGs but missed 4 extra points.

The idea that there are a bunch of kickers out there who hit every FG and every XP is just ridiculous.  

No one said that ANY kicker off the street would be better than Nuge. That's just you putting words in people's mouths. Fact is, in today's NFL where kickers are so accurate, 2 extra missed kicks per year can get kickers fired and cost your team a game or 2.

Fwiw, Shayne Graham "only" missed 5 FGs in 2009 regular season.  Do we want to repeat history?

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2016, 03:35 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fwiw, Shayne Graham "only" missed 5 FGs in 2009 regular season.  Do we want to repeat history?

No.  That is why we should want to hold on to a kicker who is 7-8 in post season with his only miss coming from 50 yards.

[GreenCornBengal]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/fg_perc_career.htm


Thought this was interesting for reference. Shayne Graham is the 8th most accurate kicker in league history, and Nugent is 33rd

Shayne Graham is available 

http://www.nfl.com/player/mikenugent/2506386/careerstats
http://www.nfl.com/player/shaynegraham/2504162/careerstats

I'm trying to remember why he left us in the first place... was it an injury thing? Does he not get along with the coaching staff? Guy had a 90%+ kicking percentage every year with the Bengals... The reason he left is escaping me...

[Derrick]

(08-20-2016, 03:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  That is why we should want to hold on to a kicker who is 7-8 in post season with his only miss coming from 50 yards.

How's he doin' this year so far???

[Shake n Blake]

(08-20-2016, 03:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: WTF?  Kai Forbath only hit .667% of his FGs last year (10-15) and was cut by 2 teams.

It has been 8 years since Hartley hit over 82 perecnt of his FGs and he did not even play lasy year.

Is this a joke post?

The Steelers singing of Bosewell was just pure luck.  He had been cut by two other teams in '14 and '15 and was the Steelers FOURTH kicker in '15 when they signed him off the street in October.  There was no way any team would have thought there was any chance he could have made their roster,

Forbath has a higher career FG% than Nugent. Both overall and on 50+ yarders.

Hartley has hit 75% of his 50+ yard tries, has only missed 1 XP for his career and has a higher overall FG% than Nuge. When we signed Nuge, he had been cut by 2 teams in the past year, and had played 7 games the previous 2 years.

Was Boswell not available last year? Is he not better than Nuge? Ok then. Like I was saying, upgrades have almost always been available at some point every year. Are you ok with the fact that good competition hasn't even been brought in at any point during Nuge's 7 year tenure?

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2016, 03:47 PM)Derrick Wrote: How's he doin' this year so far???

Who cares?

Bernard is averaging 2.6 yards per carry this preseason.  What do you think he will do in the regular season?

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2016, 03:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Forbath has a higher career FG% than Nugent. Both overall and on 50+ yarders.

And if we had signed him last year like you suggested we would have had the worst kicker in the entire league.

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2016, 03:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Was Boswell not available last year? Is he not better than Nuge? Ok then. Like I was saying, upgrades have almost always been available at some point every year. Are you ok with the fact that good competition hasn't even been brought in at any point during Nuge's 7 year tenure?

Yes he was.  But you can not blame the Bengals for not bringing in a guy who had never done any thing any where to try and beat out Nugent.c

If you want to criticize the Bengals for this then you also have to criticize every other team in the league.

You are just trying to make yourself look smart by using the amazing gift of "20/20 hindsight".  That is lame.

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2016, 03:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Hartley has hit 75% of his 50+ yard tries, has only missed 1 XP for his career and has a higher overall FG% than Nuge. When we signed Nuge, he had been cut by 2 teams in the past year, and had played 7 games the previous 2 years.

Who is Hartley kicking for this year?

He had one good season 8 years ago and has been worse than Nugent ever since then.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-20-2016, 03:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And if we had signed him last year like you suggested we would have had the worst kicker in the entire league.

Pure speculation. Forbath never kicked for us and with a full season, who knows how things would've went? Forbath has been a very accurate kicker in the past so maybe he just needs some stability. He'd certainly get that in Cincy. He only had 15 attempts last season. Hardly a big sample size. I wonder what Nuge's season % would've been had we cut him after the Panthers game in '14.

(08-20-2016, 03:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes he was.  But you can not blame the Bengals for not bringing in a guy who had never done any thing any where to try and


beat out Nugent.c

If you want to criticize the Bengals for this then you also have to criticize every other team in the league.

You are just trying to make yourself look smart by using the amazing gift of "20/20 hindsight".  That is lame.

I am not criticizing the Bengals for not seeing that Boswell was/is a great kicker. I'm criticizing them for not even attempting to give Nugent any serious competition over the last 7 years. Again...do you disagree with me there? 

[*bfine32*]

(08-20-2016, 03:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And if we had signed him last year like you suggested we would have had the worst kicker in the entire league.

Is Forbath better than Bullard?

[Bengalholic]

(08-20-2016, 03:47 PM)Derrick Wrote: How's he doin' this year so far???

According to Nugent, his performance this preseason has been 'pathetic'.

However, it really doesn't matter, because he's not going anywhere...at least not this year.

[GreenCornBengal]

Nobody answered my question so I went back and figured it out for myself.

Here is why we didn't resign Shayne Graham.

"In 2009, Graham went 23-of-28 in the regular season, his lowest percentage — 82.1 — in his Bengals career. In the Wild Card playoffs on January 9, 2010, Graham missed two field goals in the Bengals' 24–14 loss to the New York Jets, including a 28-yard attempt that would have cut the score to 24–17 late in the fourth quarter. After the game, Marvin Lewis commented on Graham's missed field goals stating "It is a shame, and it killed us. Unfortunately kicking is mostly a one-man operation. I know Shayne feels worse about it than anyone. Those points obviously make a big difference."

It's funny. Looking back on that game, I blame the entire offense. I have never seen an offense fail so bad. Looks like we took Graham as the scapegoat. Missing a 28 yarder in the playoffs will do that though.

Nugents percentage the last three years in comparison to Grahams Bengals Career low 82.1%

2015 - 82.1
2014 - 78.8
2013 - 81.8



So the question is, did we let go a of a good kicker because he faltered in the playoffs? Seems strange coming from a Marvin Lewis team... a franchise that never brings the hammer down on anyone for playoff failures.... the case of Shayne Graham is an interesting one to me.

(this isn't to say we should sign him now. I'm not an NFL special teams coach and don't know the status of Shaynes leg and how he is physically.)

[*bfine32*]

(08-20-2016, 08:10 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Nobody answered my question so I went back and figured it out for myself.

Here is why we didn't resign Shayne Graham.

"In 2009, Graham went 23-of-28 in the regular season, his lowest percentage — 82.1 — in his Bengals career. In the Wild Card playoffs on January 9, 2010, Graham missed two field goals in the Bengals' 24–14 loss to the New York Jets, including a 28-yard attempt that would have cut the score to 24–17 late in the fourth quarter. After the game, Marvin Lewis commented on Graham's missed field goals stating "It is a shame, and it killed us. Unfortunately kicking is mostly a one-man operation. I know Shayne feels worse about it than anyone. Those points obviously make a big difference."

It's funny. Looking back on that game, I blame the entire offense. I have never seen an offense fail so bad. Looks like we took Graham as the scapegoat. Missing a 28 yarder in the playoffs will do that though.

Nugents percentage the last three years in comparison to Grahams Bengals Career low 82.1%

2015 - 82.1
2014 - 78.8
2013 - 81.8



So the question is, did we let go a of a good kicker because he faltered in the playoffs? Seems strange coming from a Marvin Lewis team... a franchise that never brings the hammer down on anyone for playoff failures.... the case of Shayne Graham is an interesting one to me.

(this isn't to say we should sign him now. I'm not an NFL special teams coach and don't know the status of Shaynes leg and how he is physically.)

Shayne is an intriging case. Sure dude is old at 38, but many kickers are as old or older. Dude has bounced all over the NFL while continually being a very acurate NFL, but when we apply Fred logic he is worse than every kicker in the NFL.

WTS, ATL did just sign him because Bryant is struggling physically. 

[BonnieBengal]

(08-19-2016, 12:09 PM)Au165 Wrote: So, what you are saying is he may be available soon!

[*Nately120*]

(08-20-2016, 08:10 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: It's funny. Looking back on that game, I blame the entire offense. I have never seen an offense fail so bad. Looks like we took Graham as the scapegoat. Missing a 28 yarder in the playoffs will do that though.

If I recall that game, we knew our gameplan all year had been to run Benson's hot streak and play defense with the occasional 2-minute drill to win the close ones.  Making it within easy FG range against that Jets defense was no easy task and for two of those drives to result in 0 points put an undue amount of stress on a half-rate passing game (minus Henry, even) to get the ball in the endzone and get it in there in a hurry.

Yes, our offense (passing game) really blew it but those easy FG misses just took Benson right out of the game and forced a ho-hum Palmer to force it to a depleted WR group.  Meh, that's a recipe for a loss.  We didn't play the type of football that put us where we were going into the game.  Lucky for the Jets I recall their next game saw Nate Kaeding and the Chargers go 0-3 on FGs, too.  Two playoff games for the Jets and the opponents go 0-5 on FGs and the Jets win both games by a combined 13 points.  Punks!

[GreenCornBengal]

"Kicker Zach Hocker (ankle) who got hurt in the first few days of training camp, was back at practice Sunday and it's expected he'll kick in Jacksonville ..."

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2016, 08:10 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: It's funny. Looking back on that game, I blame the entire offense. I have never seen an offense fail so bad. 

After Henry was injured against the Ravens in week 8 our entire offense collapsed.  The next week we beat the Steelers despite gaining only 200 yards and having zero offensive tds.  After that we went 3-5 with our only wins against teams that were 1-10 (Browns), 2-10 (Lions), and 3-12 (Chiefs) and we needed a td in the final 2 minutes to pull out that win against KC.  Over the final 5 games of '09 we went 1-4 and were outscored 128-65.

Shayne Graham was not the problem.  If Cedric Benson had not had one of the greatest single game performances in Bengal history we would not have scored a point against the Jets.

[jonesy84]

(08-21-2016, 10:59 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: "Kicker Zach Hocker (ankle) who got hurt in the first few days of training camp, was back at practice Sunday and it's expected he'll kick in Jacksonville ..."

I was at that practice yesterday. Hocker was definitely out there kicking.  And noticeably bombing it A LOT further than Nuge,which we all know he is capable of.  But I will say this, watching it firsthand, he is also noticeably less accurate than Nuge (I know, hard to believe at the moment).  But I do believe it, because I watched it in person.  Definitely kicking it 10-15 YARDS longer than Nuge, distance-wise, but also definitely making less from the same distance as Nuge when the two were kicking together....  so just thought I'd throw that into the discussion...  

who knows, though, maybe with some more practice time coming up, he will knock off the rust and start making more, giving Nuge a little much-needed competition

[XenoMorph]

(08-22-2016, 11:03 AM)jonesy84 Wrote: I was at that practice yesterday. Hocker was definitely out there kicking.  And noticeably bombing it A LOT further than Nuge,which we all know he is capable of.  But I will say this, watching it firsthand, he is also noticeably less accurate than Nuge (I know, hard to believe at the moment).  But I do believe it, because I watched it in person.  Definitely kicking it 10-15 YARDS longer than Nuge, distance-wise, but also definitely making less from the same distance as Nuge when the two were kicking together....  so just thought I'd throw that into the discussion...  

who knows, though, maybe with some more practice time coming up, he will knock off the rust and start making more, giving Nuge a little much-needed competition

outside the field goal issues nuge is having... nuge seems to be pretty good on kick offs too...  putting the ball where he wants instead of just trying to push it out of the back of the endzone.

A bigger leg is a nice thought but accuracy is the key lol