Patriots cutting C- Bryan Stork

[The Real Deal]

(08-24-2016, 01:12 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Disagree because he came into a situation where they were still trying to get Palmer back, EVERYONE was learning a new scheme, and Dalton couldn't work with coaches and had a shortened offseason due to the CBA contract. There was actually a lot of set backs for Dalton's rookie season, so it's certainly surprising how well the entire team did in a rebuilding year.

I guess while we are using ridiculous past examples to back our viewpoints, I could throw out the names Eric ghiaciuc and rich Braham or maybe Ghiacuic and Kyle cook OR cook and bodine. My only point is that the grass isn't always greener and I don't personally believe the answer is to bring in a player late to camp that didn't make it to final cutdowns in NE, has to quickly learn a new system and potentially has injury and temper issues. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-24-2016, 01:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  Depends on how you define success, but I'd say these guys have all had success after leaving NE.

Wes Welker (just one season really, he was getting old)  *Contract Ended*
Danny Woodhead *Contract Ended*
Shane Vereen *Contract Ended*
Law Firm *Contract Ended*
Ben Watson *Contract Ended*
Ty Law
Lawyer Milloy
Richard Seymour *Traded*
Vince Wilfork

They do have a good track record, but like every team, they do ditch useful players sometimes.

Specifically mentioned them cutting people, rather than just losing them in FA.

I guess technically they cut Wilfork since they turned down his option, but wasn't he absolutely awful last year? He had 6 solo tackles in 16 starts (22 total tackles), and zero other stats.

Points of Ty Law, didn't think of him.

Lawyer Milloy I will point out he went to 4 straight Pro Bowls with the Patriots, including one 1st Team All-Pro and one 2nd Team All-Pro.. but once they released him, he didn't have a single other one in the final 8 years of his career, even if he was good. I'll give you points on that one, though.

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But yeah, more specifically was looking for people who got cut.


If the list is Milloy 14 years ago, Ty Law 12 years ago. If Brandon Tate (bleh), is the best they've cut in the last decade, then that's a pretty big drought of cut talent.

Actually not sure how that fairs against other teams, actually. Would probably be an interesting workup.

[The Real Deal]

(08-24-2016, 01:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  


Because Bodine struggled picking up the system as a rookie, right? Heck, Jeff Faine was serviceable and he learned on the fly.

Bodines first season coincided with hue jacksons first year as OC. To me when everyone is learning something new together it can have a galvanizing effect and almost be easier at times. Offensive lines are to move as one unit, they are like a machine. So reps in camp and being in the players position rooms for meetings is huge for learning quickly.  Bodine getting the playbook and scheme in April or May is far different than a player receiving those things in late August when camp is soon to break. Everyone shouting for this would be the first ones crying when there were fumbled C/QB exchanges and missed protections due to inexperience in the scheme and too few reps with the team.

[XenoMorph]

(08-24-2016, 02:25 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Bodines first season coincided with hue jacksons first year as OC. To me when everyone is learning something new together it can have a galvanizing effect and almost be easier at times. Offensive lines are to move as one unit, they are like a machine. So reps in camp and being in the players position rooms for meetings is huge for learning quickly.  Bodine getting the playbook and scheme in April or May is far different than a player receiving those things in late August when camp is soon to break. Everyone shouting for this would be the first ones crying when there were fumbled C/QB exchanges and missed protections due to inexperience in the scheme and too few reps with the team.

Not to many people "crying for this"  but looking into the player to see if he fits a need and is an upgrade to the position.

which he does and probly would be..  Now then the other stuff is taken into consideration like why was he let go.. Injury history and such and of course time to learn.  Which your reasoning is pretty spot on with why we don't pick up many free agents late in the offseason unless an injury forces our hand,.

[XenoMorph]

(08-24-2016, 01:07 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: 1. Carson Palmer did not replace akili smith, he replaced Jon kitna 

2. Carson Palmer sat an entire year and learned the system before starting.

C. Fair enough on Dalton but I would argue he had more time to learn the scheme and more time to gel with his teammates, so the situation is a little different.

A for effort though!

C.   You mean Dalton the guy drafted during the lockout who couldn't met his coaches or have much of an offseason before taking over the team?

[The Real Deal]

(08-24-2016, 02:59 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: C.   You mean Dalton the guy drafted during the lockout who couldn't met his coaches or have much of an offseason before taking over the team?

What Dalton did was extraordinary and that example is yet another of many reasons I like him so much! But what he did is the exception, not the rule. 

[Shake n Blake]

(08-24-2016, 02:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Specifically mentioned them cutting people, rather than just losing them in FA.

I guess technically they cut Wilfork since they turned down his option, but wasn't he absolutely awful last year? He had 6 solo tackles in 16 starts (22 total tackles), and zero other stats.

Points of Ty Law, didn't think of him.

Lawyer Milloy I will point out he went to 4 straight Pro Bowls with the Patriots, including one 1st Team All-Pro and one 2nd Team All-Pro.. but once they released him, he didn't have a single other one in the final 8 years of his career, even if he was good. I'll give you points on that one, though.

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But yeah, more specifically was looking for people who got cut.


If the list is Milloy 14 years ago, Ty Law 12 years ago. If Brandon Tate (bleh), is the best they've cut in the last decade, then that's a pretty big drought of cut talent.

Actually not sure how that fairs against other teams, actually. Would probably be an interesting workup.

Even though those players don't meet the very specific  criteria you asked for (being cut for non-monetary or non-age related reasons), the Pats did make a conscious decision to let them go, and they all performed at a similar level to how they played for the Pats.

Stork's circumstances are pretty rare, so you're not going to find many identical examples. The list of recent players who were good at some point, then cut (not traded or let go after a contract was up) by the Pats for reasons unrelated to age or money - probably begins and ends with Stork. 

I'm guessing he's had one or more serious altercations with other players or he has a serious injury issue. If it's the former, I'd say he's at least worth a look.

(08-24-2016, 02:25 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Bodines first season coincided with hue jacksons first year as OC. To me when everyone is learning something new together it can have a galvanizing effect and almost be easier at times. Offensive lines are to move as one unit, they are like a machine. So reps in camp and being in the players position rooms for meetings is huge for learning quickly.  Bodine getting the playbook and scheme in April or May is far different than a player receiving those things in late August when camp is soon to break. Everyone shouting for this would be the first ones crying when there were fumbled C/QB exchanges and missed protections due to inexperience in the scheme and too few reps with the team.

Not really buying that, but ok. What of Jeff Faine, then?

[SunsetBengal]

I wouldn't be averse to the team bringing Stork in. If nothing else, it would send a message to Bodine that he needs to start getting it done. I finally got a chance to watch the Detroit game, and Bodine looked bad, again.

Sure, Stork has some issues, for three years everyone thought he was braindead. But, if he can offer a contribution to the team, what have they got to lose? If he's got nothing, just put him back on the street.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-24-2016, 03:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Even though those players don't meet the very specific  criteria you asked for (being cut for non-monetary or non-age related reasons), the Pats did make a conscious decision to let them go, and they all performed at a similar level to how they played for the Pats.

Stork's circumstances are pretty rare, so you're not going to find many identical examples. The list of recent players who were good at some point, then cut (not traded or let go after a contract was up) by the Pats for reasons unrelated to age or money - probably begins and ends with Stork. 

I'm guessing he's had one or more serious altercations with other players or he has a serious injury issue. If it's the former, I'd say he's at least worth a look.

Welker went from:
118/1,354/6 (Patriots)
to
73/778/10 (Broncos)
to
49/464/2 (Broncos)
to
13/102/0 (Rams)

They got out while the getting was good there.

You might be right that there might not be a huge pool of players that meet that criteria. Maybe if I just narrowed it down to cut for any reason?


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That said, Welker would actually be a good example of someone cut. Both the Chargers cut him before he went to New England, so he could be added to their list.

(I seriously might do a post on this somewhere now.. because it's actually kind of interesting to me.)

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But yeah, if the Bengals don't at least check him out, then they're not doing their job well. Not sure if there's something physically or mentally wrong with him, but they need to at least check because it'd be a cheap/simple way to improve a weakness on the team if he works out.

[*ochocincos*]

Many are calling for him to replace Bodine, but as others have mentioned, PA loves his guy, so likely wouldn't happen.

However, perhaps Stork could be brought in to compete for backup C/OG depth. He's got more upside than TJ Johnson.

[The Real Deal]

(08-24-2016, 03:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Not really buying that, but ok. What of Jeff Faine, then?

Not really trying to make you buy anything, it's just my thought on it.

And if Jeff faine coming in and starting 7 games and playing in a total of 8 before getting released before the playoff game is a worthy comparison to you, then so be it. I'd like to think bringing in stork would be in hopes of gaining a long term replacement, not a band aid, a' la Jeff faine.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-24-2016, 03:34 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Welker went from:
118/1,354/6 (Patriots)
to
73/778/10 (Broncos)
to
49/464/2 (Broncos)
to
13/102/0 (Rams)

They got out while the getting was good there.

You might be right that there might not be a huge pool of players that meet that criteria. Maybe if I just narrowed it down to cut for any reason?


- - - - - - - -
That said, Welker would actually be a good example of someone cut. Both the Chargers cut him before he went to New England, so he could be added to their list.

(I seriously might do a post on this somewhere now.. because it's actually kind of interesting to me.)

- - - - - - - - - -


But yeah, if the Bengals don't at least check him out, then they're not doing their job well. Not sure if there's something physically or mentally wrong with him, but they need to at least check because it'd be a cheap/simple way to improve a weakness on the team if he works out.

Despite the numbers drop, anyone who watched the Broncos in Welker's first year knows that he was a key player for them. Fwiw, he missed 3 games that year and his numbers would've averaged out to 90-958-12 over a full season.

That said, even though Welker was successful that first year, I don't think it was a bad decision to let him walk. He wanted a big deal, he was getting on in years, and he had the concussion issue. 

Honestly I'm also interested in the Pats history with cuts/trades etc. I always hear about how the Pats never make mistakes, and while I do believe they almost always make sound decisions for the team, I don't think that means that every player they move on from is trash. Like any other team, they have other things that may factor into why they move on from a player. 

[Au165]

Welp, he got traded instead of cut....so move along nothing to see here.

[SunsetBengal]

Stork to 'Skins, for a conditional draft pick..

[*ochocincos*]

(08-24-2016, 04:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Stork to 'Skins, for a conditional draft pick..

That sneaky Jay Gruden!

[GreenCornBengal]

(08-24-2016, 03:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Despite the numbers drop, anyone who watched the Broncos in Welker's first year knows that he was a key player for them. Fwiw, he missed 3 games that year and his numbers would've averaged out to 90-958-12 over a full season.

That said, even though Welker was successful that first year, I don't think it was a bad decision to let him walk. He wanted a big deal, he was getting on in years, and he had the concussion issue. 

Honestly I'm also interested in the Pats history with cuts/trades etc. I always hear about how the Pats never make mistakes, and while I do believe they almost always make sound decisions for the team, I don't think that means that every player they move on from is trash. Like any other team, they have other things that may factor into why they move on from a player. 

They make mistakes just like any other team. I would say their latest gaff is trading Chandler Jones for Cooper the OT. Cooper had a nasty injury history, and already left camp with a massive injury I think for the Patriots.... Chandler Jones had off field issues with synthetic marijuana however.

Bill really will ditch anyone for off field issues, especially since Hernandez.

Patriots run a tight ship and I'm always leery of guys they release. There is always a good reason lol.

[CincyProduct]

It appears as though he has concussion issues. And the redskins have traded for him, but he would rather retire than play for them.....according to the radio right now.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-24-2016, 05:33 PM)CincyProduct Wrote: It appears as though he has concussion issues. And the redskins have traded for him, but he would rather retire than play for them.....according to the radio right now.

Oooh, take that, Jay Gruden!

[Joelist]

Our basic problem is the last good Center we had was Rich Braham. All the rest have been lower round (both Ghiacuc and Bodine are 4th round picks) or undrafted (Cook).

Unfortunately we have had a bad tendency to look at the late rounds or undrafted for LG and C. We got lucky that Boling after three seasons started to work out (enough to get extended). Meanwhile our RGs (Williams and Zeitler) are both high picks (second and first round). To me, barring a miracle find in Free Agency this issue will not be solved until we invest a first or second rounder on a real blue chip Center prospect.

[wolfkaosaun]

Yep. He's basically getting traded and now also contemplating retirement.

It's a fun Tuesday