Patriots cutting C- Bryan Stork

[SunsetBengal]

(08-24-2016, 07:13 PM)Joelist Wrote: Our basic problem is the last good Center we had was Rich Braham. All the rest have been lower round (both Ghiacuc and Bodine are 4th round picks) or undrafted (Cook).

Unfortunately we have had a bad tendency to look at the late rounds or undrafted for LG and C. We got lucky that Boling after three seasons started to work out (enough to get extended). Meanwhile our RGs (Williams and Zeitler) are both high picks (second and first round). To me, barring a miracle find in Free Agency this issue will not be solved until we invest a first or second rounder on a real blue chip Center prospect.

Wasn't Jonathan Luigs another 4th rounder that never really panned out?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-24-2016, 07:13 PM)Joelist Wrote: Our basic problem is the last good Center we had was Rich Braham. All the rest have been lower round (both Ghiacuc and Bodine are 4th round picks) or undrafted (Cook).

Unfortunately we have had a bad tendency to look at the late rounds or undrafted for LG and C. We got lucky that Boling after three seasons started to work out (enough to get extended). Meanwhile our RGs (Williams and Zeitler) are both high picks (second and first round). To me, barring a miracle find in Free Agency this issue will not be solved until we invest a first or second rounder on a real blue chip Center prospect.

Really wanted Travis Frederick when that draft rolled around. Think about how nice that OL would have looked.

Know that didn't turn out to be a bad draft with Eifert and Gio as the Bengals picks before and after him, but damn I would be lying if I said I wouldn't trade either for him right now. Lol

[CincyProduct]

(08-24-2016, 07:13 PM)Joelist Wrote: Our basic problem is the last good Center we had was Rich Braham. All the rest have been lower round (both Ghiacuc and Bodine are 4th round picks) or undrafted (Cook).

Unfortunately we have had a bad tendency to look at the late rounds or undrafted for LG and C. We got lucky that Boling after three seasons started to work out (enough to get extended). Meanwhile our RGs (Williams and Zeitler) are both high picks (second and first round). To me, barring a miracle find in Free Agency this issue will not be solved until we invest a first or second rounder on a real blue chip Center prospect.

The NE player is a 4th round pick as well. It's not the round, because he is being replaced by an undrafted player....so many factors into getting a center. 

[Bengal Dude]

(08-24-2016, 08:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Wasn't Jonathan Luigs another 4th rounder that never really panned out?

Apparently he never fully recovered from his hip injury.

[fredtoast]

(08-24-2016, 07:13 PM)Joelist Wrote: Our basic problem is the last good Center we had was Rich Braham. All the rest have been lower round (both Ghiacuc and Bodine are 4th round picks) or undrafted (Cook).

Unfortunately we have had a bad tendency to look at the late rounds or undrafted for LG and C. We got lucky that Boling after three seasons started to work out (enough to get extended). Meanwhile our RGs (Williams and Zeitler) are both high picks (second and first round). To me, barring a miracle find in Free Agency this issue will not be solved until we invest a first or second rounder on a real blue chip Center prospect.

We signed Brahma off the street after the crds cut him.

And Cook was a good center before he git injured.

[Joelist]

Sorry, but Cook was never actually good. At his best he was barely average. And yes I know Braham was a late round pick they got fantastically lucky on. He was also drafted in the time before teams started regularly snapping up the good interior linemen in the early rounds - alas now they do. The way drafting goes now, if we want a quality Center prospect it will have to be an early round pick.

[fredtoast]

(08-24-2016, 11:48 PM)Joelist Wrote: Sorry, but Cook was never actually good. At his best he was barely average. 

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Here is what Pat Kirwan said about Cooke in 2011, and he knows a hell of a lot more about NFL football than you do.

Inside players (guards and centers) tend to have much better production in this area. The best of the best -- Eagles guard Evan Mathis, Chargers center Nick Hardwick, Bengals center Kyle Cook and Ravens center Matt Birk -- got the job done in 2011 and will do it again in 2012. They deserve to be recognized as the unsung heroes of pass protection. Other than Mathis, who missed one game, the other three started every game. And as a group, they gave up a grand total of one sack in 2,979 pass plays.

[Sled21]

Cook was an excellent center before he had back issues. And for those thinking we should have brought Stork in to replace Bodine, he was traded for a Conditional 7th round draft pick. Can't get much lower than that. There's a reason 30 other teams did not seem interested.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-25-2016, 09:02 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Cook was an excellent center before he had back issues. And for those thinking we should have brought Stork in to replace Bodine, he was traded for a Conditional 7th round draft pick. Can't get much lower than that. There's a reason 30 other teams did not seem interested.

Actually, it was being reported all day that Stork was to be released by the Pats.  The Redskins reached out to the Pats and offered something, in order to guarantee that he would not see the open market.  Obviously the 'Skins were concerned that Stork might not last very long on the open market.  To me, that suggests that there must have been at least some perceived interest from other teams around the league.

[The Real Deal]

(08-25-2016, 09:22 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, it was being reported all day that Stork was to be released by the Pats.  The Redskins reached out to the Pats and offered something, in order to guarantee that he would not see the open market.  Obviously the 'Skins were concerned that Stork might not last very long on the open market.  To me, that suggests that there must have been at least some perceived interest from other teams around the league.

You're probably right about this, but let's also not forget that the redskins are still the redskins. They tend to make some poor decisions at times, so who knows.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-24-2016, 12:01 PM)Sled21 Wrote: He just had one...... and now he's getting into fights with everyone and getting kicked out of practices. PASS!!!

Why?  I want to fight all the Patriots and steelers, too!

[Sled21]

(08-25-2016, 09:22 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, it was being reported all day that Stork was to be released by the Pats.  The Redskins reached out to the Pats and offered something, in order to guarantee that he would not see the open market.  Obviously the 'Skins were concerned that Stork might not last very long on the open market.  To me, that suggests that there must have been at least some perceived interest from other teams around the league.

Yes, it was reported all day that they were going to release him, and a 7th round conditional was the best, if not the only offer they got. That says it all.......

[Shake n Blake]

(08-25-2016, 09:28 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: You're probably right about this, but let's also not forget that the redskins are still the redskins. They tend to make some poor decisions at times, so who knows.

Meh. The Skins were in the playoffs and won their division last year, so maybe they've made some good decisions as well?

[The Real Deal]

(08-25-2016, 01:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Meh. The Skins were in the playoffs and won their division last year, so maybe they've made some good decisions as well?

So no need to question Marvin Lewis or mike brown then, got it.

[Joelist]

(08-25-2016, 09:02 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Cook was an excellent center before he had back issues. And for those thinking we should have brought Stork in to replace Bodine, he was traded for a Conditional 7th round draft pick. Can't get much lower than that. There's a reason 30 other teams did not seem interested.

I'm sorry, but he was like I said - average. He felt excellent to us because he replaced one of the worst Centers in NFL history (Ghiacuc). But even when healthy Cook still had an annoying issue with blocking the wrong guy and things like that. 

We need to fix Center and unfortunately in the drafting g climate the NFL is now in that probably means investing a high round pick, because the teams are now much more aggressive in snapping up interior linemen in the early rounds. Having a poor Center hurts both the run and pass games.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-25-2016, 02:53 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: So no need to question Marvin Lewis or mike brown then, got it.

Nobody said you couldn't  "question" Jay Gruden or Dan Snyder, but it's kind of ignorant to dismiss any move they make "cuz, hey it's the Redskins".

Do the Bengals not make good personnel moves? Does anyone really think Marv is 0-7 because he's bad at shaping the roster?

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2016, 04:19 PM)Joelist Wrote: I'm sorry, but he was like I said - average. He felt excellent to us because he replaced one of the worst Centers in NFL history (Ghiacuc). But even when healthy Cook still had an annoying issue with blocking the wrong guy and things like that. 

You are just wrong.  I posted a quote from Pat Kirwan to prove you wrong.  Here is another one

https://stripehype.com/2012/07/28/kyle-cook/


Cook took over the starting center spot full-time in 2009 after three years on the incumbent Eric Ghiaciuc, and filled in admirably.


After back-to-back solid season to start out his career in which he graded out at +2.7 in 2009 and +5.7 in 2010, he looked to be the long-term solution at center the Bengals had been searching for since Pro Bowler Rich Braham retired.



Cook has allowed only six sacks in his three years as a starting center for the Bengals while being a solid run-blocker in a division that featured Casey Hampton, Shawn Rodgers(when he was still relevent), and All-Pro NT Haloti Ngata. Cook also excels at second-level blocking against opposing teams’ linebackers, 

[The Real Deal]

(08-25-2016, 09:28 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: You're probably right about this........so who knows.

(08-25-2016, 01:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Meh. The Skins were in the playoffs and won their division last year, so maybe they've made some good decisions as well?

(08-25-2016, 05:51 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Nobody said you couldn't  "question" Jay Gruden or Dan Snyder, but it's kind of ignorant to dismiss any move they make "cuz, hey it's the Redskins".

Do the Bengals not make good personnel moves? Does anyone really think Marv is 0-7 because he's bad at shaping the roster?

Who dismissed anything? The only ignorance here is it being implied that I completely dismissed that it could be a good move because it's the redskins. Sure, I question the move because it's the redskins, but my quotes show that I clearly left it open that what the poster I originally replied to said could be right about why they made their move.

Fact is, you read what you wanted in my posts and discarded everything else because my thoughts on this subject didn't line up with yours. And that's fine, that's what message boards are all about, different perspectives. But for your sake, don't imply That someone said something They didn't when the facts are there for all to see. Because, well, it makes you look......ignorant.

[Joelist]

And here are writers saying effectively the opposite:

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/7/15/3159266/examining-why-kyle-cook-ranked-as-the-4th-worst-center-in-the-league

https://www.profootballfocus.com/three-years-of-pass-blocking-efficiency-centers/

We can throw sportswriter quotes back and forth all day. The fact is that it is all just opinions. And I remember Cook well - when he started out we were happy simply because unlike the totally incompetent Ghiacuc he was at least somewhat effective. But we (remember the old Bengals board?) also rapidly came to realize he was just an average to below average center who was very inconsistent.

Our real issue at present is Bodine is bad - not quite Ghiacuc bad but not much better either.

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2016, 06:52 PM)Joelist Wrote:  But we (remember the old Bengals board?) also rapidly came to realize he was just an average to below average center who was very inconsistent.

You mean the same message board who claimed that Justin Smith was garbage, Whitworth could not play OT and needed to be moved to guard, Leon Hall could not cover fast receivers, and dalton had a noodle arm?


Cook was good.