Something Is Missing

[TGISunday]

Usually we're trying to extend at least one of our core players right before the season starts -- often before camp ends. But all's quiet this year.

Did we already get our guys early? Any work on Zeit, Eifert, Kirkpatrick (lower his cap hit, like Zeit). Just a little different feel this year.

[Yojimbo]

We did extend Bernard, Williams and Hewitt, so not entirely quiet. Also resigned some big money guys in Jones and Iloka. I wouldn't be surprised to see another one year extension for Whit soon.

[TGISunday]

(09-07-2016, 10:46 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: We did extend Bernard, Williams and Hewitt, so not entirely quiet. Also resigned some big money guys in Jones and Iloka. I wouldn't be surprised to see another one year extension for Whit soon.

Yeah.  It just seems they shifted the schedule to earlier in the offseason, which isn't a bad thing.

[Nizoj]

Seeing a couple extensions come out this week from around the league I thought the same thing. I think we are waiting on Decastro's deal to do one with Zeitler. DreK may be heading for free agency, I'm not sure he's going to get paid anything near what he is making on his 5th year option and it would be wise for him to play it out and hope he has a good year.

I think most of our dealing is done for the year besides maybe a vet FA after week 1 and maybe a Zeit extension.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I think Zeitler walks. The Guard market has become out of control.

-Last year when Boling got his contract, he was tied for 13th in highest yearly average. The average of the top 5 paid guard contracts was just slightly over $7.9m.
-Boling's contract is currently tied for 16th in highest yearly average. The average of the top 5 paid guard contracts is slightly over $9.1m. That number will most likely get higher when All-Pro DeCastro gets his new contract.

Zeitler is good, but he's never been great. (Which was his draft expectations when the Bengals traded down to get him instead of staying and getting DeCastro.) Not sure Zeitler and Thompson is a good trade off for an All-Pro. If Whit plays 2016 at a high level once again, look for one of the two drafted tackles to move to RG. Or for them to draft a guard. ***EDIT: Thanks for the reminder, McC. Yeah, or they'll just plug in Westerman.***

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Eifert is hurt once again, and the Bengals will have to see how he performs this year once he comes back. If he doesn't recreate 2015, or gets hurt this year again, they might drop his 5th year option.

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Kirkpatrick's cap hit is ridiculous, but signing Adam Jones for 3 years and then spending a 1st on Will Jack sends the signal that the Bengals don't necessarily WANT to be attached to Kirkpatrick long term. His contract value next offseason will be entirely dependent upon his performance this year.

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If anything, I would look for another 1 year Whitworth extension.

[*Go Cards*]

(09-07-2016, 11:56 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think Zeitler walks. The Guard market has become out of control.

-Last year when Boling got his contract, he was tied for 13th in highest yearly average. The average of the top 5 paid guard contracts was just slightly over $7.9m.
-Boling's contract is currently tied for 16th in highest yearly average. The average of the top 5 paid guard contracts is slightly over $9.1m. That number will most likely get higher when All-Pro DeCastro gets his new contract.

Zeitler is good, but he's never been great. (Which was his draft expectations when the Bengals traded down to get him instead of staying and getting DeCastro.) Not sure Zeitler and Thompson is a good trade off for an All-Pro. If Whit plays 2016 at a high level once again, look for one of the two drafted tackles to move to RG. Or for them to draft a guard.

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Eifert is hurt once again, and the Bengals will have to see how he performs this year once he comes back. If he doesn't recreate 2015, or gets hurt this year again, they might drop his 5th year option.

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Kirkpatrick's cap hit is ridiculous, but signing Adam Jones for 3 years and then spending a 1st on Will Jack sends the signal that the Bengals don't necessarily WANT to be attached to Kirkpatrick long term. His contract value next offseason will be entirely dependent upon his performance this year.

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If anything, I would look for another 1 year Whitworth extension.

Agree with this. 

Too many question marks for these players to sign now without knowing their true market value. 

Which should motivate each one this season. 

Although could see Zeitler if he wanted to sign early for reasonable. Doubt he would be willing to though.

[NATI BENGALS]

I dont think they are willing to break the bank for Kirk or Zeitler , I viewed Westerman and WJ3 as Zeitler and Kirk insurance/replacements. If Kroft shows well they may not go crazy for Eifert after his rookie contract.

I think we keep negotiating. But we are not giving out a record contract to guard or CB.

Whit may have to wait. We could prioritize negotiations with the younger guys getting a second contract

[NATI BENGALS]

They usually dont have much info leaked on negotiations. I dont recall hearing about gio or shawn williams. Its better when its A surprise.

I just looked , AJ's extension was news on 9/11. There could still be a new contract or two coming.

We are not done adjusting the roster. I hope Chykie doesnt stay around too long. And i dont see how they can be comfortable with the DL depth. Once that gets settled maybe we get something done.

[TGISunday]

Very interesting take on Zeitler.

I'm only guessing here, but you're saying we should wait for Decastro to set the market and ignore it, because someone else will overpay (ala Osemele)--and keep Westerman or Fisher instead? Fisher makes more sense I suppose.

We don't have a huge amount of contracts down the immediate pipeline, particularly for OL. He also doesn't seem like a diva, and I can only see him going one other place (GB), which isn't likely. I don't see the team writing checks it can't cash anytime soon (like NO, Baltimore, Denver, Pittsburgh), so our cap situation should be stable.

I appreciate the assessment. Not sure I see the same thing coming to fruition, but even if they have guys in place to take over for Zeitler in case it goes south, I doubt that reality actually happens.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-07-2016, 11:56 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think Zeitler walks. The Guard market has become out of control.

-Last year when Boling got his contract, he was tied for 13th in highest yearly average. The average of the top 5 paid guard contracts was just slightly over $7.9m.
-Boling's contract is currently tied for 16th in highest yearly average. The average of the top 5 paid guard contracts is slightly over $9.1m. That number will most likely get higher when All-Pro DeCastro gets his new contract.

Zeitler is good, but he's never been great. (Which was his draft expectations when the Bengals traded down to get him instead of staying and getting DeCastro.) Not sure Zeitler and Thompson is a good trade off for an All-Pro. If Whit plays 2016 at a high level once again, look for one of the two drafted tackles to move to RG. Or for them to draft a guard.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Eifert is hurt once again, and the Bengals will have to see how he performs this year once he comes back. If he doesn't recreate 2015, or gets hurt this year again, they might drop his 5th year option.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Kirkpatrick's cap hit is ridiculous, but signing Adam Jones for 3 years and then spending a 1st on Will Jack sends the signal that the Bengals don't necessarily WANT to be attached to Kirkpatrick long term. His contract value next offseason will be entirely dependent upon his performance this year.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

If anything, I would look for another 1 year Whitworth extension.

I don't see any way the Bengals don't keep the 5th year option on Eifert, but I completely agree on Kirkpatrick.  This became even more evident with the IR-designated to return option for WJIII...they need to see something from him this year before letting Dre go. 

The Zeitler option is intriguing.  Would you spend another high draft pick to replace him?  You would almost have to, right?  I can't help but think Zeitler might be kept if they can let Dre walk and get a compensatory pick for him.  The Bengals will have at least a couple compensatory picks next year, but I don't know how much I like the idea of not signing Zeitler.  Generally, if the player is at least solid, and stays out of trouble they make an effort to resign them. 

Interesting. 

[XenoMorph]

(09-07-2016, 11:56 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Kirkpatrick's cap hit is ridiculous, but signing Adam Jones for 3 years and then spending a 1st on Will Jack sends the signal that the Bengals don't necessarily WANT to be attached to Kirkpatrick long term. His contract value next offseason will be entirely dependent upon his performance this year.

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I don't think that's entirely true bengals love to stack up on CBs... and no one behind kirk has shown they can stay on the field yet

[kevin]

(09-07-2016, 10:39 PM)TGISunday Wrote: Usually we're trying to extend at least one of our core players right before the season starts -- often before camp ends.  But all's quiet this year.

Did we already get our guys early? Any work on Zeit, Eifert, Kirkpatrick (lower his cap hit, like Zeit).  Just a little different feel this year.

The Bengals unloaded salary cap in Carson Palmer, Chad Johnson and a few others and had money to spend for a while....but since then these new guys are veterans and it took big money to keep AJ Green, Dalton, Atkins, Dunlap....which may have caused letting more players leave than normal, such as Andre Smith, Leon Hall, Reggie Nelson, Marvin Jones, Sanu. ....and Bengals forced to have all these big fat contract extensions the last few years may be in dire need of a less active year for salary cap reasons and contracts that may be coming up in 2017.  ......I would say Kirkpatrick needs to prove he is worth his # 1 pick a few years ago and prove he is worth a contract extension. I have no doubt they want to keep Zeitler and Eifert, but Kirkpatrick is far from being one of the top CBs in the NFL. If the Bengals let Joseph leave too early, Kirky needs to step up and be the top CB on this team. If Jones is the top CB on this team this year, that was not why they drafted Kirky and Dennard in first rounds. It is way past time for Kirky to have a Pro Bowl type season.

[Hammerstripes]

The Bengals will have plenty of space to sign these guys if they want to. I would argue that we need to make sure Zeitler is re-signed.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-08-2016, 07:28 AM)TGISunday Wrote: Very interesting take on Zeitler.

I'm only guessing here, but you're saying we should wait for Decastro to set the market and ignore it, because someone else will overpay (ala Osemele)--and keep Westerman or Fisher instead? Fisher makes more sense I suppose.

We don't have a huge amount of contracts down the immediate pipeline, particularly for OL. He also doesn't seem like a diva, and I can only see him going one other place (GB), which isn't likely. I don't see the team writing checks it can't cash anytime soon (like NO, Baltimore, Denver, Pittsburgh), so our cap situation should be stable.

I appreciate the assessment.  Not sure I see the same thing coming to fruition, but even if they have guys in place to take over for Zeitler in case it goes south, I doubt that reality actually happens.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, Zeitler is a good player. I just think that in order to actually extend him, the Bengals are going to have to pay him like he's a great/elite player, which he just isn't.

Do the Bengals really want to invest $8m+/yr in a RG who is only good, not great? Even if they want to, should they?

Obviously my opinion/view on it all, but yeah. I view it a bit like Sanu. Sanu was meh and got paid like he's good. I think Zeitler is good and will get paid like he's great. The Bengals can probably afford it cap-wise, but I just don't think the value is there.

(09-08-2016, 08:05 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I don't see any way the Bengals don't keep the 5th year option on Eifert, but I completely agree on Kirkpatrick.  This became even more evident with the IR-designated to return option for WJIII...they need to see something from him this year before letting Dre go. 

The Zeitler option is intriguing.  Would you spend another high draft pick to replace him?  You would almost have to, right?  I can't help but think Zeitler might be kept if they can let Dre walk and get a compensatory pick for him.  The Bengals will have at least a couple compensatory picks next year, but I don't know how much I like the idea of not signing Zeitler.  Generally, if the player is at least solid, and stays out of trouble they make an effort to resign them. 

Interesting. 

Well, he's already planned to miss 3-5 games this year, right? If that total this year reaches up to 6 games, then he'll have tied Bob Sanders in how many games they missed their first four years. He's averaging like 365 yards a year right now. No matter how talented someone is, if they can't stay on the field, they aren't worth it. 

So how well he performs/how healthy he stays (which doesn't look good so far) really does matter. Can't help the club in the tub, and money spent on a player who can't stay on the field is money that isn't helping your team.

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As for the compensation picks, they wouldn't be next year. If they let Dre walk, that'd be a 2018 draft pick. The draft picks come a year after the FA period because they calculate salary and playing time and all that jazz into determining them.

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-08-2016, 01:10 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Well, he's already planned to miss 3-5 games this year, right? If that total this year reaches up to 6 games, then he'll have tied Bob Sanders in how many games they missed their first four years. He's averaging like 365 yards a year right now. No matter how talented someone is, if they can't stay on the field, they aren't worth it. 

So how well he performs/how healthy he stays (which doesn't look good so far) really does matter. Can't help the club in the tub, and money spent on a player who can't stay on the field is money that isn't helping your team.

Completely agree with you on Eifert.  The guy is extremely talented, but also cannot say on the field.  People like to compare him to Gronk, but the most yards Eifert has ever put up is only slightly more than the least Gronk has (615 to 550 in Gronk's rookie year).  Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but I do think he contract presents a very interesting quandary.

[kevin]

Paul Brown was not big on contract negotiations once season starts, feeling that once season starts the focus MUST be on playing the games, not contracts. Mike Brown has pretty much been the same way. It is time to play football. Agents and contracts have to wait until after the season. Look for that to be the standard policy in Bengals Front Office. The bye week may be an exception, but don't count on it.

[*SHRacerX*]

I realize that, but they already have a few compensatory picks coming their way next year for Marvin Jones, Reggie Nelson, Dingleberry, etc. 

[McC]

(09-07-2016, 11:56 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think Zeitler walks. The Guard market has become out of control.

-Last year when Boling got his contract, he was tied for 13th in highest yearly average. The average of the top 5 paid guard contracts was just slightly over $7.9m.
-Boling's contract is currently tied for 16th in highest yearly average. The average of the top 5 paid guard contracts is slightly over $9.1m. That number will most likely get higher when All-Pro DeCastro gets his new contract.

Zeitler is good, but he's never been great. (Which was his draft expectations when the Bengals traded down to get him instead of staying and getting DeCastro.) Not sure Zeitler and Thompson is a good trade off for an All-Pro. If Whit plays 2016 at a high level once again, look for one of the two drafted tackles to move to RG. Or for them to draft a guard.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Eifert is hurt once again, and the Bengals will have to see how he performs this year once he comes back. If he doesn't recreate 2015, or gets hurt this year again, they might drop his 5th year option.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Kirkpatrick's cap hit is ridiculous, but signing Adam Jones for 3 years and then spending a 1st on Will Jack sends the signal that the Bengals don't necessarily WANT to be attached to Kirkpatrick long term. His contract value next offseason will be entirely dependent upon his performance this year.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

If anything, I would look for another 1 year Whitworth extension.

Westerman.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-07-2016, 11:56 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think Zeitler walks. The Guard market has become out of control.

-Last year when Boling got his contract, he was tied for 13th in highest yearly average. The average of the top 5 paid guard contracts was just slightly over $7.9m.
-Boling's contract is currently tied for 16th in highest yearly average. The average of the top 5 paid guard contracts is slightly over $9.1m. That number will most likely get higher when All-Pro DeCastro gets his new contract.

Zeitler is good, but he's never been great. (Which was his draft expectations when the Bengals traded down to get him instead of staying and getting DeCastro.) Not sure Zeitler and Thompson is a good trade off for an All-Pro. If Whit plays 2016 at a high level once again, look for one of the two drafted tackles to move to RG. Or for them to draft a guard.

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http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/07/12/kevin-zeitler-bengals


SI has Zeitler ranked as the 8th best OG in the NFL this year.  And with having the next generation of Tackles in Ogbuihe and Fisher, it will be vital to keep experience and consistency along the interior of the OL, as they develop.  Cant really see the Bengals letting Zeitler just walk.

[Jpoore]

(09-08-2016, 01:24 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Completely agree with you on Eifert.  The guy is extremely talented, but also cannot say on the field.  People like to compare him to Gronk, but the most yards Eifert has ever put up is only slightly more than the least Gronk has (615 to 550 in Gronk's rookie year).  Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but I do think he contract presents a very interesting quandary.

Yeah but in only 12 games he put up 13 tds and I love how people are talking about his injury he had one injury where he was out for the whole year this injury that kept him out isn't his fault nor did it happen in a actual game he should be starting the season if it wasn't for the pro bowl