Something Is Missing

[kevin]

(09-08-2016, 06:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/07/12/kevin-zeitler-bengals


SI has Zeitler ranked as the 8th best OG in the NFL this year.  And with having the next generation of Tackles in Ogbuihe and Fisher, it will be vital to keep experience and consistency along the interior of the OL, as they develop.  Cant really see the Bengals letting Zeitler just walk.

I agree. I'm sure they want Zeitler. He isn't even old yet.  I don't think you just let 3 top draft picks of recent years all walk at the same time.  To all you Draft Guru's out there, I would say what's even the point in the draft if you never keep these guys.  I have seen the pounding Bengals quarterbacks take when the team went cheap on the offensive line, such as when Mike Brown refused to resign Max Montoya saying, " why should I pay an old offensive lineman ".  One of the stupidest things Mike Brown ever said since Munoz had retired and Montoya went on to play in more Pro Bowls in a Raiders uniform.  Meanwhile Bengal quarterbacks and running backs such as top picks Klingler and Ki Jana Carter got destroyed as soon as the ball was snapped. No blocking means no chance of winning.  We saw that again in 2007 and really in 2008 as the collapse of our O Line got Carson killed and replacement Fitzpatrick had to run for his life as soon as the ball was snapped, forget the X's and O's at that point. ....Zeitler needs to be kept if the Bengals want to protect the QB and open holes for the RB. ......Eifert scores touchdowns when healthy. I think they want him also and he could even line up more as a WR under Zampese in four WR sets. ...Kirkpatrick is the one that hasn't lived up to the high draft pick, and this season is huge on if they even want him back or not. .......It would be a real setback to our drafting if we let top picks Gresham, Eifert, Andre Smith, Zeitler, Hall, Kirkpatrick all leave.......If they do not keep Zeitler with Whitworth  near his end,  this team could look like the awful 1990's Bengals again very fast.  If you don't have blocking you can throw the entire playbook out the window. The new players at tackle and even center are still unproven to where letting a still young Zeitler leave would be stupid, and forget getting the ball to AJ Green without blocking. That becomes a waste of contract money.

[*pally*]

According to Ed Werder the Steelers have agreed to an extension of David DeCastro's contract 5 years $50,000,000 so the ceiling for Zeitler has been set


Ed WerderVerified account
‏@Edwerderespn
#NFL last-minute deals continue - #Steelers reach agreement with OG David DeCastro on 5-year, $50M extension, per sources

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-08-2016, 06:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/07/12/kevin-zeitler-bengals


SI has Zeitler ranked as the 8th best OG in the NFL this year.  And with having the next generation of Tackles in Ogbuihe and Fisher, it will be vital to keep experience and consistency along the interior of the OL, as they develop.  Cant really see the Bengals letting Zeitler just walk.

Eh, if it's not swimsuits, I generally ignore SI. They've fallen a great deal since their past. Much like ESPN.

I looked this up on SI just to give a snapshot....
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/09/06/afc-scouting-reports-overrated-underrated

-Bengals most underrated player? Tyler Eifert
"Eifert was a Pro Bowler, but it seems like most people think there is a huge division between the Patriots’ Rob Gronkowski, who’s widely considered to be the best tight end in the league, and then everybody else." ...because there is.

-Bengals most overrated player? Andy Dalton
"...if they didn’t have A.J. Green, and Eifert, and that offensive line to protect Dalton, he’d have a pretty hard time being successful on the field." ...is there a QB in the league who can not have any pass catchers or blockers and still be successful? Didn't realize that was unique to Dalton.

Other notable names:
-Jadeveon Clowney most underrated for the Texans despite being the 2014 1st overall pick and not having done anything.
-Alex Smith most overrated for the Chiefs for "holding them back more than helping" despite the fact that he had a 378 yard, 4 TD/0 INT postseason game in 2013 that the Chiefs lost.

Not to forget Paxton Lynch is the most underrated player on the Broncos without having ever taken a snap, and Joey Bosa is the most overrated player on the Chargers without having ever taken a snap. Lol

That was literally just the first article I picked on there.

(09-08-2016, 06:17 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Yeah but in only 12 games he put up 13 tds and I love how people are talking about his injury he had one injury where he was out for the whole year this injury that kept him out isn't his fault nor did it happen in a actual game he should be starting the season if it wasn't for the pro bowl

He had a knee problem his rookie year, his second year he actually was already hurt with a shoulder injury that was going to play through but needed surgery in the offseason. When the elbow injury happened and didn't heal like they hoped, he got surgery on them both. Then here was the pinched nerve in the back that a lot of people have forgotten that actually kept him out of the game BEFORE the Steelers game where he got a 2.5 week concussion. Now the injury in the Pro Bowl that happened what, 8 months ago? And he's still not ready.

So he's the slowest healer ever, and he's constantly injured. That's 6 injuries in 3 seasons, 3 of them requiring surgery.

Bob Sanders was an All-Pro two times in his first four years. That still didn't make him valuable to the team when he wasn't playing, though.

[TGISunday]

market's set for 5th year, upper tier right guards:

Decastro extension

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-08-2016, 06:50 PM)pally Wrote: According to Ed Werder the Steelers  have agreed to an extension of David DeCastro's contract  5 years $50,000,000 so the ceiling for Zeitler has been set

 
Ed WerderVerified account
‏@Edwerderespn
#NFL last-minute deals continue - #Steelers reach agreement with OG David DeCastro on 5-year, $50M extension, per sources

(09-08-2016, 07:51 PM)TGISunday Wrote: market's set for 5th year, upper tier right guards:

Decastro extension

The Bengals were already reportedly not happy with Zeitler's $8m cap hit this year. Let someone else overpay Zeitler next offseason. The guy's a good-not-great guard. Would be nice to have him, but not at ridiculous money since I honestly am not convinced he's even the best guard on the OL for the Bengals.

Hello 2017 starting RG Christian Westerman.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-07-2016, 11:41 PM)Nizoj Wrote: Seeing a couple extensions come out this week from around the league I thought the same thing. I think we are waiting on Decastro's deal to do one with Zeitler. DreK may be heading for free agency, I'm not sure he's going to get paid anything near what he is making on his 5th year option and it would be wise for him to play it out and hope he has a good year.

I think most of our dealing is done for the year besides maybe a vet FA after week 1 and maybe a Zeit extension.

This makes a lot of sense. DeCastro was drafted about the same time and in the same draft.

Both have played similar as well.

Hoping we extend Zeit and let Kirkpatrick go myself.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-08-2016, 08:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This makes a lot of sense. DeCastro was drafted about the same time and in the same draft.

Both have played similar as well.

Hoping we extend Zeit and let Kirkpatrick go myself.

Eh? DeCastro is a 1st Team All-Pro player. Zeitler has never lived up to his draft status/hype/expectations.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-08-2016, 07:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Bengals were already reportedly not happy with Zeitler's $8m cap hit this year. Let someone else overpay Zeitler next offseason. The guy's a good-not-great guard. Would be nice to have him, but not at ridiculous money since I honestly am not convinced he's even the best guard on the OL for the Bengals.

Hello 2017 starting RG Christian Westerman.

Reported by who??  8M for a top 10 OG seems like going rate.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-08-2016, 08:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Reported by who??  8M for a top 10 OG seems like going rate.

Damn, now I am trying to remember where I read this. It was relatively early in the preseason.... This is not it, but this also mentions it even further back.


http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Hobsons-Choice-extensions-and-excursions/de0baa21-33d5-4544-97a0-4bb915a66aff
"Actually, their focus right now is trying to get extensions with both cornerback Dre Kirkpatrick and right guard Kevin Zeitler before May 4. That’s when they have to decide if they place a fifth-year option on them. That would cost them $8 million for Kirkpatrick and $6 million for Zeitler next year, so they have to get those cap numbers down and that’s a big priority at the moment."


Can't find the article itself, I think it was from one of the local sports writers back in like March or April.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-08-2016, 08:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Damn, now I am trying to remember where I read this. It was relatively early in the preseason.... This is not it, but this also mentions it even further back.


http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Hobsons-Choice-extensions-and-excursions/de0baa21-33d5-4544-97a0-4bb915a66aff
"Actually, their focus right now is trying to get extensions with both cornerback Dre Kirkpatrick and right guard Kevin Zeitler before May 4. That’s when they have to decide if they place a fifth-year option on them. That would cost them $8 million for Kirkpatrick and $6 million for Zeitler next year, so they have to get those cap numbers down and that’s a big priority at the moment."


Can't find the article itself, I think it was from one of the local sports writers back in like March or April.

So, Zeitler's option is for 6M, not 8M?  Now, when you factor that he is a top 10 rated OG in the NFL, that seems like a bargain.  Now if we're comparing the merit of Zeitler versus Kirkpatrick, I'd say that Zeitler has been more consistent and worthy of spending the money on, at this point in time. 

[masonbengals fan]

At this point yes. Hoping they are both deserving at the end of the year.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-08-2016, 08:51 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, Zeitler's option is for 6M, not 8M?  Now, when you factor that he is a top 10 rated OG in the NFL, that seems like a bargain.  Now if we're comparing the merit of Zeitler versus Kirkpatrick, I'd say that Zeitler has been more consistent and worthy of spending the money on, at this point in time. 

No, it's $8m. That's just a typo on his part.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/kevin-zeitler-9837/
http://overthecap.com/player/kevin-zeitler/189/

No idea why he put $6m. I also don't buy that Zeitler is a top 10 Guard in the NFL.

His $8m cap hit this year is the 3rd highest in the NFL (well, it was before DeCastro's new contract) and he's sure not the 3rd best guard. It's why they wanted a smaller cap number. $8m would put him at 7th in 2017 in cap hits.

There's now three guards who make at least $10m/yr.

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-08-2016, 06:17 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Yeah but in only 12 games he put up 13 tds and I love how people are talking about his injury he had one injury where he was out for the whole year this injury that kept him out isn't his fault nor did it happen in a actual game he should be starting the season if it wasn't for the pro bowl

This is ludicrous.  Obviously, none of the injuries are "his fault".  Including the playoffs, he has played in 31 of 51 possible games.  That means he has missed 40% of the games during his career.  And now he is looking at being out probably 1/3 of this season.  Yes, he is good when he's on the field.  Problem is how often he's not.

[NATI BENGALS]

(09-08-2016, 06:50 PM)pally Wrote: According to Ed Werder the Steelers  have agreed to an extension of David DeCastro's contract  5 years $50,000,000 so the ceiling for Zeitler has been set

 
Ed WerderVerified account
‏@Edwerderespn
#NFL last-minute deals continue - #Steelers reach agreement with OG David DeCastro on 5-year, $50M extension, per sources

I was expecting more. That could help us out in negotiations with Zeitler.

[Jpoore]

(09-08-2016, 09:15 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: This is ludicrous.  Obviously, none of the injuries are "his fault".  Including the playoffs, he has played in 31 of 51 possible games.  That means he has missed 40% of the games during his career.  And now he is looking at being out probably 1/3 of this season.  Yes, he is good when he's on the field.  Problem is how often he's not.

Should have clarified. He should not be punished for what happenned in the pro bowl as far as contract wise. The problem is you let him go then he goes 5 years of best tight end in the nfl you have to weigh risk vs reward and in my opinion it is worth it to pay him. How do you not? There haave been plenty of players who were hurt a lot early in their careerr then stayed really healthy and dominated. 

[TGISunday]

(09-08-2016, 08:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Eh? DeCastro is a 1st Team All-Pro player. Zeitler has never lived up to his draft status/hype/expectations.

We can go back and forth about predicting the future and whether 7-10 million a year is worth it for a guard, but you're really underselling Z for sake of argument.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-top-10-offensive-players-set-to-hit-free-agency-in-2017/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/backfield-breakdown-bengals/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-pff-pro-bowl-team/

[yellowxdiscipline]

Just read that we broke off negotiations with Zeitler. Welp. Thanks Kevin it was a pleasure.

[Bengal Dude]

(09-09-2016, 04:37 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Just read that we broke off negotiations with Zeitler. Welp. Thanks Kevin it was a pleasure.

I'm guessing Z's agent is looking at DeCastro's contract and wanting something similar. However, our FAs for next season aren't that impressive, so we have no excuse for not trying to do a new deal.

[jowczarski]

My bad y'all -- didn't know this was a contract thread when I created the other one. The market has grown too large for the Bengals re: Zeitler, and I don't blame him for wanting to cash in. No acrimony between the parties that I could tell.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-09-2016, 04:37 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Just read that we broke off negotiations with Zeitler. Welp. Thanks Kevin it was a pleasure.

Speculating, but the Bengals were probably trying to talk like $7m, Zeitler was probably trying to talk $8.5m, DeCastro comes in at $10m, and the negotiations get obliterated.

Yeah, just didn't see the Bengals putting big money in the RG spot for a non-elite player when they were already paying Boling pretty good money at LG.