Where is the praise for the prime time win?

[*Nately120*]

(10-04-2016, 10:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So when we lose in prime time the haters all say the loss is magnified and bigger because it was in prime time, but when we win in prime time the haters act like it is not magnified or a bigger accomplishment.

Same old haters gonna hate.

1-4 in prime time last year. The record magnifies itself. 

[Captain Happy Pants]

If it had been against a quality opponent like NE then it would have more merit. I'm praising ANY win but at this point they've reached higher expectations like a playoff win. I'll be impressed if we make it past the wild card round, assuming we get there

[fredtoast]

(10-04-2016, 11:32 PM)Captain Happy Pants Wrote: If it had been against a quality opponent like NE then it would have more merit.  I'm praising ANY win but at this point they've reached higher expectations like a playoff win.  I'll be impressed if we make it past the wild card round, assuming we get there

So you agree that it is silly to obsess over prime time losses and wins more than all the other regular season games.

Smart man.

[fredtoast]

(10-04-2016, 11:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: 1-4 in prime time last year. The record magnifies itself. 

So if prime time games are bigger and more important people should be making a bigger deal over this Dolphins win, right?

You can't say prime time losses are bigger but prime time wins are not. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-04-2016, 09:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Over that last three seasons only three teams have a higher winning percentage against teams that finish with a winning record than the Bengals (.524) and only 2 teams have more wins against teams that made the playoffs.  The Bengals have 10 which is only one behind the Seahawks and Broncos who each have 11.

That's kind of the point about prime time wins. They can beat winning teams during 1 and 4pm starts, but they can't do it under the lights or in the playoffs. 

It's easy to see why people are underwhelmed about a Thursday night win against a team with a losing record. The last time they won in prime time against a team with a winning record was 1997. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-04-2016, 11:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So if prime time games are bigger and more important people should be making a bigger deal over this Dolphins win, right?

You can't say prime time losses are bigger but prime time wins are not. 

Yes, you easily can.

[fredtoast]

(10-05-2016, 12:18 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yes, you easily can.

You can say whatever you want, but it sounds silly.

How can prime time losses be bigger and more important than other regular season losses, but prime time wins are not?

Please explain the logic in that argument.

[fredtoast]

(10-05-2016, 12:17 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's easy to see why people are underwhelmed about a Thursday night win against a team with a losing record. 

But prime time games are so much more important than other regular season games.  That is why the haters always roll out those numbers to show how lame a coach Marvin is, remember? 

But for some reason when he wins a prime time game it is no big deal.  I wonder why that is?

Marvin has 19 prime time losses, but 14 of those came against playoff teams and in many of those the Bengals were underdogs.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-05-2016, 01:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can say whatever you want, but it sounds silly.

How can prime time losses be bigger and more important than other regular season losses, but prime time wins are not?

Please explain the logic in that argument.

If you're talking strictly wins, they're all pretty much equal in importance with division and conference wins being a bit more important due to tie breakers.

The OP was wondering where the love was because he felt the narrative is, the Bengals can't win in primetime. That's obviously not true because the Bengals can and have won in primetime.

The lack of love is due to it being a thursday night game against a team with a losing record. We've already seen instances of that before so it's received with a ho hum reaction.

Primetime wins against winning teams are seen as more important because they show you are able to play with and beat good teams. That's important because you will not play a team with a losing record in the post season (with the one exception in the history of the nfl).

As i've cited twice, the Bengals last beat a team with a winning record in primetime in 1997. That's kind of telling.

Bengals are 4-4 on thursday night, pretty well below .500 on monday night and they've never won on sunday night in 7 tries. The nfl tries to make almost everyone play on thursday night so you are more likely to face a team with a losing record. Sunday and monday nights, predominantly, are better teams with mostly winning records.

A win is a win in the standings, mostly, with the previously stated division and conference wins being more important in the playoff picture. A win in primetime has a much wider range of importance, depending on when and who it's played against.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-05-2016, 01:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But prime time games are so much more important than other regular season games.  That is why the haters always roll out those numbers to show how lame a coach Marvin is, remember? 

But for some reason when he wins a prime time game it is no big deal.  I wonder why that is?

Marvin has 19 prime time losses, but 14 of those came against playoff teams and in many of those the Bengals were underdogs.

Along with my previous post, what you just said is the point. It's more of a measuring stick when you play better teams in primetime. The Bengals have failed every single time since 1997, save one time against the Broncos in '14.

[Marlon23]

(10-05-2016, 01:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But prime time games are so much more important than other regular season games.  That is why the haters always roll out those numbers to show how lame a coach Marvin is, remember? 

But for some reason when he wins a prime time game it is no big deal.  I wonder why that is?

Marvin has 19 prime time losses, but 14 of those came against playoff teams and in many of those the Bengals were underdogs.

Let me do some Math here.  
Prime time Game = 1 Loss or 1 Win
A Non Prime Time Game = 1 Loss or 1 Win
(Excluding Divisional Win or Loss) It appears if a Team has a record of 3 and 2 and lets say they play the Prime Time Game and Win this would mean 4-2.  Now if they lost this game they would be 3-3.  (I hope everyone is keeping up with my math here)  Now if a Team is 3 and 2 and they play a Non Prime Time game and lets say they win, they would be 4-2, and if they play that same game mind you but Lose they would be 3-3.  Well Fred, it appears you are just flat out wrong.  Prime time games count as Many Games Rolled into 1.   

[fredtoast]

(10-05-2016, 01:39 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Along with my previous post, what you just said is the point. It's more of a measuring stick when you play better teams in primetime. The Bengals have failed every single time since 1997, save one time against the Broncos in '14.

(10-05-2016, 01:44 PM)Marlon23 Wrote: Let me do some Math here.  
Prime time Game = 1 Loss or 1 Win
A Non Prime Time Game = 1 Loss or 1 Win
(Excluding Divisional Win or Loss) It appears if a Team has a record of 3 and 2 and lets say they play the Prime Time Game and Win this would mean 4-2.  Now if they lost this game they would be 3-3.  (I hope everyone is keeping up with my math here)  Now if a Team is 3 and 2 and they play a Non Prime Time game and lets say they win, they would be 4-2, and if they play that same game mind you but Lose they would be 3-3.  Well Fred, it appears you are just flat out wrong.  Prime time games count as Many Games Rolled into 1.   

Good points, but that is not the way the crowd thinks around here.

Most people around here treat ALL prime time games like they are much more important than any other game.  And when we lose a prime time game it is treated like a much WORSE loss than any other regular season game.  The prime time record has become the "go to" argument for the haters because it is one of the few things they have left. Whenever I point out how much success the Bengals have had recently I always get the "What about primetime?!" rant.  But for some reason when we win a prime time game these same people give it a "Meh, no big deal."

I guarantee that if we had lost last Thursday night many people here would be losing their minds because it was a ANOTHER PRIMETIME LOSS.

[wolfkaosaun]

(10-05-2016, 02:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Good points, but that is not the way the crowd thinks around here.

Most people around here treat ALL prime time games like they are much more important than any other game.  And when we lose a prime time game it is treated like a much WORSE loss than any other regular season game.  The prime time record has become the "go to" argument for the haters because it is one of the few things they have left. Whenever I point out how much success the Bengals have had recently I always get the "What about primetime?!" rant.  But for some reason when we win a prime time game these same people give it a "Meh, no big deal."

I guarantee that if we had lost last Thursday night many people here would be losing their minds because it was a ANOTHER PRIMETIME LOSS.

Nah. It would have been because the Bengals lost to a vastly inferior team and would be 1-3/.

[Hoofhearted]

(10-05-2016, 02:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The prime time record has become the "go to" argument for the haters because it is one of the few things they have left. 

That and the two decades of no PO wins, but don't let that get in your way of a good soapbox moment for ignoring what those people are really trying to say, which is Marv has yet to show he can get this team over that proverbial hump.

[wolfkaosaun]

(10-04-2016, 03:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't know what your point is.

If prime time losses are magnified and bigger than non-primetime losses then that means this primetime victory over the Dolphins should be magnified and bigger.  Yet, all I am hearing from the haters is that this win over the Dolphins is "no big deal".

My point is that you can not make a big deal out of prime time losses if you are not going to make a big deal out of prime time victories.

My point is what I stated, the Bengals are bad in primetime games. It's just a fact. Never said they were maginified, besides playoff games but let's not beat a dead horse there.

Well, looking at the stats I gave going back to 2013, the Bengals have won 1 primetime game every season. So this is pretty normal for Bengals fans at this point. Going back to 2012, the Bengals have won 1 primetime game a year. Although their record would be 5-11 (including this year) during the regular season. 5-15 if you include playoffs.

Now, say the Bengals were to win 2 primetime games, that's way different because the Bengals have not gone .500 in primetime games under Marvin Lewis. Ever.

[*Nately120*]

(10-04-2016, 11:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So if prime time games are bigger and more important people should be making a bigger deal over this Dolphins win, right?

You can't say prime time losses are bigger but prime time wins are not. 

That's why I'm talking about their record in prime-time.  We had 1 prime-time win last season and 4 prime-time losses, so it doesn't matter how you value prime-time when the point is that we had 4 times the losses as wins.

We win less than 50% of our prime-time games, so it doesn't matter if prime-time games count as 1 game, 100 games, or 543 bananas because the point is that we are on the wrong side of the ratio and whatever amount of value you attribute to our wins you also must attribute to our losses so the ratio and % remains the same.

I'm not going to brush off the win over the Dolphins, but beating the Browns last year to be 1-0 in prime-time was followed up by a 4-game losing streak in prime-time SO forgive me if I'm not exactly ready to say we've overcome our longstanding issues.


So to get back to the original question:

(10-02-2016, 08:19 PM)Beaker Wrote: One of the doubters biggest contentions is that the Bengals cannot win in prime time. Where is the praise for proving that sentiment to be false?

What is "proof" that we are prime-time winners?  Our 1-0 record this year?  We can't include prior years, or else we start "proving" we can't win in prime-time.  Did our win over the Browns to be 1-0 so far that year prove we were over it in 2015?  Because we followed that with 4 prime-time losses in a row, so meh.

Anyways, we can't conclude anything about this unless we are given some sort of guideline for what constitutes a team that can win in prime-time.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-05-2016, 02:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Good points, but that is not the way the crowd thinks around here.

Most people around here treat ALL prime time games like they are much more important than any other game.  And when we lose a prime time game it is treated like a much WORSE loss than any other regular season game.  The prime time record has become the "go to" argument for the haters because it is one of the few things they have left. Whenever I point out how much success the Bengals have had recently I always get the "What about primetime?!" rant.  But for some reason when we win a prime time game these same people give it a "Meh, no big deal."

I guarantee that if we had lost last Thursday night many people here would be losing their minds because it was a ANOTHER PRIMETIME LOSS.

No doubt, heads would have exploded to a much greater extent than the love that was dished out for the win.

My one and only contention is, when you play winning teams in primetime, especially sun and mon night, you need to win at more than a .300 clip to be considered true contenders or to hope to win in the playoffs (to a lesser extent sine anything can happen during a given game).

[Marlon23]

Prime time game, is one game. My view of this is simple. Any team in the NFL can beat any team on any given night. These are professional athletes, not our local High Schools on Friday Night.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-04-2016, 11:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't say prime time losses are bigger but prime time wins are not. 

Rfaulk beat me to it, but yeah you definitely can with a team that has the expectations that this one does. We SHOULD win prime time and playoff games, based on how well the team has fared in regular season 1 pm games.

That's why prime time and playoff losses are so troubling (especially considering the record) and prime time and playoff wins should be expected. I doubt New England fans throw any extra significance one way or another on whether or not a game was played in prime time. 

This is because they expect to win. Now if they lost or continually began to lose those types of games, I imagine they'd suddenly care that it was a prime time game.