If we don't make the postseason...

[*Nately120*]

(10-10-2016, 01:15 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I remember the talk of Marvin going to Pitt but I just figured it was a bluff. Then I figured Pitt changed their minds and didn't want him given the look of defeat at "The Press Conference"

It could have been, but Marvin made some specific demands and they weren't met but he still stuck around.  I think he would have bolted if he had a better opening, but it's all speculation.

[THE Bigzoman]

(10-10-2016, 12:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If this was true then Marvin would be getting longer contract extensions.

This COULD be true, but it's not actually certain.

After all, if the Bengals are so confident in Lewis, why not give him a longer contract instead of these year-by-year extensions?

But really, it could just be that Marvin wants his contracts to be that way because he isn't certain how much longer he wants to continue here. There's plenty of evidence suggesting this. For example, there's articles that state that Mike brown asked Marvin "you coming back next year?" after the Steeler game.

[*Nately120*]

(10-10-2016, 01:34 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: This COULD be true, but it's not actually certain.

After all, if the Bengals are so confident in Lewis, why not give him a longer contract instead of these year-by-year extensions?

But really, it could just be that Marvin wants his contracts to be that way because he isn't certain how much longer he wants to continue here. There's plenty of evidence suggesting this. For example, there's articles that state that Mike brown asked Marvin "you coming back next year?" after the Steeler game.

Perhaps one could argue that Marvin accepting one-year contracts over and over again shows his willingness to just bend to Mike Brown's will.  Isn't the NFL full of examples of players/coaches pushing for more guarantees and more years and more commitment?  Marvin just hain't getting it and the fact that he doesn't either demand or deserve it seems (to me) like another example of Mike and Marvin's dysfunctional, yet totally long-term marriage.

In any sort of relationship right and wrong matter less than agreed upon symmetry.  Neither of them are likely to do better with someone else, so why not just ride it out?

[THE Bigzoman]

(10-10-2016, 01:43 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Perhaps one could argue that Marvin accepting one-year contracts over and over again shows his willingness to just bend to Mike Brown's will.  Isn't the NFL full of examples of players/coaches pushing for more guarantees and more years and more commitment?  Marvin just hain't getting it and the fact that he doesn't either demand or deserve it seems (to me) like another example of Mike and Marvin's dysfunctional, yet totally long-term marriage.

In any sort of relationship right and wrong matter less than agreed upon symmetry.  Neither of them are likely to do better with someone else, so why not just ride it out?

I doubt it.

Marvin Lewis would Be a hot commodity in the open market if he ever decided to leave.

Honestly, I think Marvin Lewis is a good HC. He's well respected in the community, and there was a survey showing that people were surprised that he hasn't won a SB.

What scares me about a Post Marvin lewis era is that it's possible that he's the only one that can work with Mike brown. Even though Mike Brown ***** every coach on his staff, other coaches, better or worse, might find themselves in positions where they do worse.

If ML is fired or resigns before Brown croaks, do you see Brown granting a new HC the same power it took Lewis over a decade to get? No way.

[*Nately120*]

(10-10-2016, 02:03 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: I doubt it.

Marvin Lewis would Be a hot commodity in the open market if he ever decided to leave.

Honestly, I think Marvin Lewis is a good HC. He's well respected in the community, and there was a survey showing that people were surprised that he hasn't won a SB.

What scares me about a Post Marvin lewis era is that it's possible that he's the only one that can work with Mike brown. Even though Mike Brown ***** every coach on his staff, other coaches, better or worse, might find themselves in positions where they do worse.

If ML is fired or resigns before Brown croaks, do you see Brown granting a new HC the same power it took Lewis over a decade to get? No way.

So if Marvin is such a hot commodity why does he continue to take extremely favorable contracts from an owner he's publicly blamed for putting the team behind the eight ball?  Your entire mindset (while understandable) proves my take on this situation:  it's like a marriage that isn't great but god help us, we aren't perfect either and if we get a divorce we'll just have to go through asset separation and lawyers and get back on the dating scene and may very well just end up with someone worse than the person we aren't happy with.

Status quo.  Marvin let it win after 2010, but I guess the fact that Mike Brown didn't insist on drafting Mallet over Dalton shows that a mere decade of bending over for someone can soften the hardest of hearts. 

So my question, if Marvin is such a hot commodity and crucial to what amount of relative success we have then why does he let Mike Brown keep him under his thumb like this?  I think Marvin is a ho-hum coach who was a great hire over a decade ago who eventually grew to not like where he is/was and he was given a few token concessions in order to keep him quiet.  But I'll agree, we're probably even more fudged if he left.  It was post-2010 or never, says I. The bed has been made.

[THE Bigzoman]

(10-10-2016, 02:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So if Marvin is such a hot commodity why does he continue to take extremely favorable contracts from an owner he's publicly blamed for putting the team behind the eight ball?  Your entire mindset (while understandable) proves my take on this situation:  it's like a marriage that isn't great but god help us, we aren't perfect either and if we get a divorce we'll just have to go through asset separation and lawyers and get back on the dating scene and may very well just end up with someone worse than the person we aren't happy with.

Status quo.  Marvin let it win after 2010, but I guess the fact that Mike Brown didn't insist on drafting Mallet over Dalton shows that a mere decade of bending over for someone can soften the hardest of hearts. 

So my question, if Marvin is such a hot commodity and crucial to what amount of relative success we have then why does he let Mike Brown keep him under his thumb like this?  I think Marvin is a ho-hum coach who was a great hire over a decade ago who eventually grew to not like where he is/was and he was given a few token concessions in order to keep him quiet.  But I'll agree, we're probably even more fudged if he left.  It was post-2010 or never, says I. The bed has been made.

 

The answer lies in this post. It's not a coincidence that Mike Brown ceded some of his power over to his daughter/Marvin after Marvin went public about some things. After the concessions were made, it's likely that Lewis stuck it out in hopes that progress would continue. He wasn't entirely wrong on this. We made the postseason for 5 straight years, after all. But it looks like the latest roadbump on the Green-Dalton era is a repeat of the Palmer-Johnson one.
 
Something's gotta give soon. IDK if this means Mike stops being a stubborn dick and gives up more power or we enter another rebuild year, but I don't see a stable ship if the Bengals keep playing the way they are. Finger pointing is probably underway as we speak. There were hints of fingerpointing in reports after last year's wild card debacle.
 
 I think the jury is still out on Lewis being under Brown's thumb. I think it comes down to whether or not he retires (because his little plan with HUE and his contracts suggest that it will happen sooner than later) or decides to coach elsewhere. If he just retires, you're probably right on this.
 
What hurts the most, IMO, is that we're watching two of the greatest Bengals to ever wear strips get older, frailer, and even more frustrated about everything. Did you see the look on Dalton's face yesterday? That's not a face that says "I'm okay with this now and will be for years to come".  I think that's the only thing to look forward to if the season continues as is. What happens next as emotions run higher, failure becomes more common, and people ask whose to blame?

[Bengal Dude]

(10-10-2016, 12:30 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I recall it being a topic of discussion after the 2010 season. Marvin was the first one to say he wanted out because I think he was testing the coaching waters in the NFL and/or college level.  Carson wasn't public about the whole thing, which is why his actions of demanding a trade seemed to just come out of nowhere.  I'm a bit surprised people don't remember Marvin being the one who went public about wanting to walk away from the Bengals after 2010, but I guess Carson wanted out and that shifted the focus to him.  Toss in 5 winning seasons in a row and you have the new narrative sealed up.

http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/93115/marvin-lewis-may-be-next-pitt-head-coach

Cincinnati Bengals coach Marvin Lewis may not wait to hear if owner Mike Brown wants to bring him back. Instead, a source close to Lewis said the 2009 NFL Coach of the Year may pursue the open job at the University of Pittsburgh after spending the past eight years with the Bengals. NFL Network reported earlier in the day that the university, which fired head coach Michael Haywood on Saturday, was interested in Lewis.

“Marvin is from that area and I think he’s very interested,” the source said of the Pennsylvania native. A team source indicated that members of the coaching staff believe Lewis will not return, even if asked to come back.

The Pitt job became available again a little more than two weeks following the resignation of Dave Wannstedt. Haywood was fired one day after being arrested on a felony domestic abuse charge in Indiana.

As for Lewis, he has become increasingly disenchanted with the way the Bengals have been run by Brown. Among his frustrations are that the Bengals have a smaller scouting staff and require the coaching staff to do much of the scouting of college players in the offseason.

Lewis won coach of the year honors after leading the Bengals to a 10-6 mark last season, the second winning season during his tenure. However, the Bengals, who had only two winning seasons in the 16 years before Lewis took over and have made the playoffs in back-to-back years only once in the team’s 43-year history, regressed to 4-12 this year.




http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/01/bengals-marvin-lewis-cant-say-where-hell-coach-next-year/1#.V_uygvkrLIU



I can't get the link to work right now, but here is this on the NFL forum from the time:


http://www3.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=10854812

I remember all of this. It also wasn't just the Pitt job. Lewis wanted his rep to contact the 49ers and ask if they had any interest. Nothing really came of that since they were all aboard on getting Harbaugh.

[Pat5775]

(10-10-2016, 02:03 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: I doubt it.

Marvin Lewis would Be a hot commodity in the open market if he ever decided to leave.

Honestly, I think Marvin Lewis is a good HC. He's well respected in the community, and there was a survey showing that people were surprised that he hasn't won a SB.

What scares me about a Post Marvin lewis era is that it's possible that he's the only one that can work with Mike brown. Even though Mike Brown ***** every coach on his staff, other coaches, better or worse, might find themselves in positions where they do worse.

If ML is fired or resigns before Brown croaks, do you see Brown granting a new HC the same power it took Lewis over a decade to get? No way.

I don't know... I could see Marvin getting another job as a DC in the league but as HC? I just don't see it. 

I get the reservations about moving on from Marv. The 90's were a scary time. But I have to assume Mike relinquishing most of his control to his daughter means whoever she (or, "they" I guess) decides to bring aboard will make most of the decisions. We won't know until it happens.

[Hammerstripes]

(10-10-2016, 04:49 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Even if he does, there's been a lot of word out that Guenther would move up to HC. Seen that a few times from people around Bengals orginzation. Not if Marvin gets fired, but they worded it as if he leaves or something along those lines.

I honestly think that the guy they would go after for HC would be Vance Joseph.

[Hammerstripes]

(10-10-2016, 04:47 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I don't know... I could see Marvin getting another job as a DC in the league but as HC? I just don't see it. 

I get the reservations about moving on from Marv. The 90's were a scary time. But I have to assume Mike relinquishing most of his control to his daughter means whoever she (or, "they" I guess) decides to bring aboard will make most of the decisions. We won't know until it happens.

Without question he would get another head coaching job.  Everyone remembers the state the Bengals were in when they hired Marvin.  What he did here to get this team to perennial playoff berths is nothing short of amazing.

A couple teams that come to mind:

Jacksonville
SF

Both of them have suspect ownership and would benefit from a steady hand.

[Vas Deferens]

(10-10-2016, 04:53 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I honestly think that the guy they would go after for HC would be Vance Joseph.

They can go after anyone they want.  A lot of people don't want to deal with the family tree mentality around here.  Vance probably saw enough and knows better to wait for the next courter. 

[cincyfan429]

If seven straight first round playoff losses don't get him fired I don't know what will. Always remember we could have had Zimmer

[J24]

Marvin is going to be here next year regardless of what happens because we all know Mike will not pay some one who isn't working for him. There will be turnover on the roster though and I would expect the Bengals to make a big move in the offseason.

[junglefever67]

I can only imagine not making theplayoffs! But if we do, whats the odds of making it to the second game? Marvins record ain't that good in the playoffs. I can't figure out why Brown doesn't look at John Gruden for head coach? John has probably forgotten more about football than Mike will ever know!

[junglefever67]

Not to change the subject, but I was wondering who in the heck is this Vance Joseph feller?

[GodFather]

(10-10-2016, 01:44 AM)WiscoFan Wrote: Will that finally get Marvin Lewis fired?

[*Awful Llama*]

(10-10-2016, 08:10 PM)GodFather Wrote:

If he bangs Katie I'd say he's earned his pay.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Tom Coughlin was the better choice before the 2003 season. Marvin Lewis brought the Bengals out of the abyss but Tom could have taken this team to the top.

[BengalChris]

(10-10-2016, 01:44 AM)WiscoFan Wrote: Will that finally get Marvin Lewis fired?

No, but Marv might quit.

(10-10-2016, 08:46 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Tom Coughlin was the better choice before the 2003 season.  Marvin Lewis brought the Bengals out of the abyss but Tom could have taken this team to the top.

Understand where you're coming from but Tom Coughlin would have had to get the Bengals FO on the right page quicker than Marv did. Not sure anyone could move that glacier any quicker than Marv did.

[BengalChris]

(10-10-2016, 07:37 PM)junglefever67 Wrote: Not to change the subject, but I was wondering who in the heck is this Vance Joseph feller?

Our secondary coach for the last few years. He's now the DC in Miami. The Bengals passed him over for our DC job two years ago when they promoted Gunther.