Can We Admit

[OrlandoBengal]

(10-11-2016, 11:16 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In other words, Zeit is too busy babysitting Ogbuehi to babysit Bodine.

Btw, I don't think I've ever whipped out the bust label after 4 games, but I'd be lying if I said I thought there was much hope for Ogbuehi. Dude looks thoroughly outclassed. 

I wonder if there is any thought to bringing in Fisher.  At the same time I'm a little scared because if Ognuehi is playing ahead of him, how bad must Fisher be?

[sonofstat]

(10-11-2016, 11:16 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In other words, Zeit is too busy babysitting Ogbuehi to babysit Bodine.

Btw, I don't think I've ever whipped out the bust label after 4 games, but I'd be lying if I said I thought there was much hope for Ogbuehi. Dude looks thoroughly outclassed. 

I know how you feel....there is a creeping sense of dread though that this is not just a bad start. 

On the plus side 

-I'm holding on to the fact that Whit got schooled by Freeney in one game in his rookie year but has been great since.
-There was a lot of people saying Ced looked really promising in preseason so some of the raw tools must be there.



On the negative side..

- When Whit faced Freeney he was one of the best edge rushers of his generation and in his prime, and whit was moved from LG...
- I don't remember Whit being as awful as Ced outside of the Freeney matchup
- Ced is not a rookie...i know he barely played his rookie year but he was around the team , had a year of NFL strength work (!!) , and gameday / scheme prep
- The Dallas D Line is not exactly considered to be a massive force, or one of the league's best
- The offense as a whole is struggling so it can't afford to carry / hide a weak RT
- Lot of these highly drafted OT's around the league seem to bust

[OrlandoBengal]

(10-11-2016, 11:44 AM)sonofstat Wrote: I know how you feel....there is a creeping sense of dread though that this is not just a bad start. 

On the plus side 

-I'm holding on to the fact that Whit got schooled by Freeney in one game in his rookie year but has been great since.
-There was a lot of people saying Ced looked really promising in preseason so some of the raw tools must be there.



On the negative side..

- When Whit faced Freeney he was one of the best edge rushers of his generation and in his prime, and whit was moved from LG...
- I don't remember Whit being as awful as Ced outside of the Freeney matchup
- Ced is not a rookie...i know he barely played his rookie year but he was around the team , had a year of NFL strength work (!!) , and gameday / scheme prep
- The Dallas D Line is not exactly considered to be a massive force, or one of the league's best
- The offense as a whole is struggling so it can't afford to carry / hide a weak RT
- Lot of these highly drafted OT's around the league seem to bust

I will add to your list of negatives.  It's not just the Dallas game in which he has looked bad...

[Millhouse]

I'll take Andre in his second or third year over Ogb for sure. That said Andre could have been better than he was, by starting with a a better diet.

(10-11-2016, 11:16 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In other words, Zeit is too busy babysitting Ogbuehi to babysit Bodine.

Btw, I don't think I've ever whipped out the bust label after 4 games, but I'd be lying if I said I thought there was much hope for Ogbuehi. Dude looks thoroughly outclassed. 

Yeah Ogb is a worry right now. And in all honesty, whoever has been in charge of the drafts these last few years is worrisome too. We hit on a few guys, but too many upper round picks are just meh.

[JumboTron]

Taking Ced and Fisher back-to-back was ignorant and, not to sound like a dick, but anyone who thought that was a good idea, well.....

[Derrick]

(10-11-2016, 12:10 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Andre Smith was 10x the road grader Cedric is.
Andre had really good techniques.
his anchor was sound and he he rarely over extended
the only player I seen beat Andre off the edge was Jabaal Sheard
I was not thrilled the Bengals drafting 2 OTs.
Especially when they could have drafted a burner like Phillip Dorsett.
Cedric IMO is not physical.enough. he has no punch out of his stance
and he's gets beat off the edge too much.
Fisher has done what?
catch a 30 yd pass?

I have concluded that all the hype the Bengals get on their drafting is mostly BS. Frankly it seems their draft picks aren't really that good. Marvy gets way too much credit for his drafting acumen.  I look forward to reading your comments on why you think I am "wrong".

[Brownshoe]

(10-11-2016, 11:16 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In other words, Zeit is too busy babysitting Ogbuehi to babysit Bodine.

Btw, I don't think I've ever whipped out the bust label after 4 games, but I'd be lying if I said I thought there was much hope for Ogbuehi. Dude looks thoroughly outclassed. 

Yeah, Ogbuehi looks like garbage. It's so sickning to me that we have invested so much into the line and it's garbage. Ogbuehi had such a high grade on him too, and he supposedly only dropped to us due to injury. Dalton has never had a top line (I don't care what anyone says he never had as much time as what Dallas or New England gives their QB). We have always had a center problem since he's been here. It would be nice to see what he can do when he actually has some time in the pocket. 

[Sled21]

(10-11-2016, 11:41 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I wonder if there is any thought to bringing in Fisher.  At the same time I'm a little scared because if Ognuehi is playing ahead of him, how bad must Fisher be?

At this point I'd throw him in and see how he does. He can't let them go by him any faster than Ced is....

[Tiger Teeth]

(10-11-2016, 12:24 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yeah, Ogbuehi looks like garbage. It's so sickning to me that we have invested so much into the line and it's garbage. Ogbuehi had such a high grade on him too, and he supposedly only dropped to us due to injury. Dalton has never had a top line (I don't care what anyone says he never had as much time as what Dallas or New England gives their QB). We have always had a center problem since he's been here. It would be nice to see what he can do when he actually has some time in the pocket. 

Sunday the looks on his face seemed to indicate he's fed up with this shit.  Hell, he's running for his life on almost every play, and although he's tough, how long until he goes down, and doesn't get back up?

[OrlandoBengal]

(10-11-2016, 12:24 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yeah, Ogbuehi looks like garbage. It's so sickning to me that we have invested so much into the line and it's garbage. Ogbuehi had such a high grade on him too, and he supposedly only dropped to us due to injury. Dalton has never had a top line (I don't care what anyone says he never had as much time as what Dallas or New England gives their QB). We have always had a center problem since he's been here. It would be nice to see what he can do when he actually has some time in the pocket. 

Dalton has always made the line look better because he gets rid of the ball so fast.  New England is probably a bad example because Brady is the one guy who gets rid of it even faster than Dalton.  That Dallas line though... Prescott had time to survey the field, call his girlfriend to check on dinner reservations, and still no one was anywhere near him.

The team has had a center problem since well before Dalton got here.  Ever since the mysterious "bone bruise" that ended Braham's career.

[Millhouse]

(10-11-2016, 11:53 AM)JumboTron Wrote: Taking Ced and Fisher back-to-back was ignorant and, not to sound like a dick, but anyone who thought that was a good idea, well.....

Oh I hated it then and still do. Worst part was they knew Ced was going to be on IR. I never understood that, and as of now it was simply a dumb move.

[Brownshoe]

(10-11-2016, 12:49 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Dalton has always made the line look better because he gets rid of the ball so fast.  New England is probably a bad example because Brady is the one guy who gets rid of it even faster than Dalton.  That Dallas line though... Prescott had time to survey the field, call his girlfriend to check on dinner reservations, and still no one was anywhere near him.

The team has had a center problem since well before Dalton got here.  Ever since the mysterious "bone bruise" that ended Braham's career.

The thing is New England doesn't even let anyone sniff Brady. Our offensive line has always broke down and forced Dalton to throw it faster. Just look at how much time it was giving their backup QBs. Their OL was a big reason why they went 3-1 w/o Brady.

[Bengal Dude]

(10-11-2016, 11:41 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I wonder if there is any thought to bringing in Fisher.  At the same time I'm a little scared because if Ognuehi is playing ahead of him, how bad must Fisher be?

I doubt there's any thought of bringing Fisher in. PA said that he pounded/stood on the table in the war room when our pick was up in 2015. He campaigned so hard for Ced and got him. No way he will bench his prodigal son.

[BengalFanInNJ]

Look, Whitworth struggled at Tackle in his first few games as well. Perhaps Og will get everything straightened out as well? I'm not ready to call him a bust. Yet.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-11-2016, 12:52 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The thing is New England doesn't even let anyone sniff Brady. Our offensive line has always broke down and forced Dalton to throw it faster. Just look at how much time it was giving their backup QBs. Their OL was a big reason why they went 3-1 w/o Brady.

NE sacks surrendered total since 2011: 163
Bengals sacks surrendered total since 2011: 161

Bengals have had 2 seasons where their total was lower than NE's best year.

Sorry, but that narrative has NEVER flown.

But it seems more and more that the quick release, helps out tremendously.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-11-2016, 11:50 AM)Millhouse Wrote: I'll take Andre in his second or third year over Ogb for sure. That said Andre could have been better than he was, by starting with a a better diet.



Yeah Ogb is a worry right now. And in all honesty, whoever has been in charge of the drafts these last few years is worrisome too. We hit on a few guys, but too many upper round picks are just meh.

Andre Smith started 4 games his second year, only was active for 7, was injured more, and looked like crap.

[Brownshoe]

(10-11-2016, 07:31 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: NE sacks surrendered total since 2011: 163
Bengals sacks surrendered total since 2011: 161

Bengals have had 2 seasons where their total was lower than NE's best year.

Sorry, but that narrative has NEVER flown.

But it seems more and more that the quick release, helps out tremendously.

And NE has thrown the ball about 5k more times since 2011

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-11-2016, 07:43 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: And NE has thrown the ball about 5k more times since 2011

Lol only 417 more times, but point taken.

I will also qualify that the backups have been sacked 15 times and Andy is the rest; while with the Patriots, it's only been 11.

So it goes down to 152 vs. 146.

Andy also has had maybe a dozen (or more) planned runs and scrambles thrown in as well, but I'm clearly grasping here.

The real tale is the full pressure totals: I KNOW the Bengals are much better than NE because as of 2014, Bengals and Broncos were 1 and 2 since 2011. I'm not subbing to PFF anymore though, so that will be a tricky task to find out.

[Brownshoe]

(10-11-2016, 07:54 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Lol only 417 more times, but point taken.

I will also qualify that the backups have been sacked 15 times and Andy is the rest; while with the Patriots, it's only been 11.

So it goes down to 152 vs. 146.

Andy also has had maybe a dozen (or more) planned runs and scrambles thrown in as well, but I'm clearly grasping here.

The real tale is the full pressure totals: I KNOW the Bengals are much better than NE because as of 2014, Bengals and Broncos were 1 and 2 since 2011. I'm not subbing to PFF anymore though, so that will be a tricky task to find out.

With the backup getting sacked a considerable amount more (a crazy amount more if you consider how many sacks per drop back) I think that just shows that the Bengals OL is a depending on Dalton a lot. Not just because of his quick release but because our center needs a lot of help with calling the protections and NE OL doesnt need that help. NE doesn't need Brady to do that because they can do it with multiple different backup QBs. The Bengals OL has been giving up just as many sacks per drop back as the Colts per drop back.

[SunsetBengal]

Andre Smith could have been a stud OT in the NFL, but his own laziness and ego got the best of him. Initially, he was projected to be a LT, the money man on the OL, his own laziness failed to keep himself in shape enough to not injure himself under his own weight...

So, he begrudgingly accepted the lesser role of RT, and his play can be described as sporadic. He played when he wanted to, took time off when he felt like it. No "team player" in Andre. Only team he plays for is team Andre..