the problem with Bengals philosophy

[Bengalfan4life27c]

The problem with building mostly through the draft. Whey you don't retain your own. Mjones Sanu Reggie putting to much pressure on young talent to early. Not every draft pick is always going to work out your going to have injuries busts etc... Adding a blue chip talent here and there in free agency wouldn't hurt.

[BernLock]

They do hang on to their own. They have the 2nd highest amount of draft picks on the team in the league. You can't keep everyone. Especially when you have success like the bengals have had

[Goalpost]

You still need some of the draft picks to hit though. Especially the first rounders. The last three years have been disappointing so far. Dennard, Og, and Jackson are not contributing or are playing mediocre.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-11-2016, 01:42 PM)Goalpost Wrote: You still need some of the draft picks to hit though.  Especially the first rounders.  The last three years have been disappointing so far.  Dennard, Og, and Jackson are not contributing or are playing mediocre.

Agreed. Their main problem is really over the past 5 drafts. Eifert has been the only Pro Bowl player selected.

The last 3 drafts have been pretty bad. The guys they selected have been low-quality starter caliber.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-11-2016, 01:41 PM)BernLock Wrote: They do hang on to their own. They have the 2nd highest amount of draft picks on the team in the league. You can't keep everyone. Especially when you have success like the bengals have had

The amount of draft picks on a roster is deceptive. What matters is the amount of draft picks that are impact players.

Losing Smith, Sanu, and Jones hurt the team. They were replaced by guys who aren't as good as them.

[jj22]

The problem with the philosophy is they like to get comp picks instead of signing free agents......... Well you look at those comp picks of the past and you see it's been a failed philosophy. Take a look at the wasted picks and we were better off signing known talent.

[Derrick]

(10-11-2016, 02:04 PM)jj22 Wrote: The problem with the philosophy is they like to get comp picks instead of signing free agents......... Well you look at those comp picks of the past and you see it's been a failed philosophy. Take a look at the wasted picks and we were better off signing known talent.

Again, I say the Bengals draft success is always overhyped. Folks, it has not been nearly as good as we are asked to believe.

[Hammerstripes]

(10-11-2016, 02:04 PM)jj22 Wrote: The problem with the philosophy is they like to get comp picks instead of signing free agents......... Well you look at those comp picks of the past and you see it's been a failed philosophy. Take a look at the wasted picks and we were better off signing known talent.

The problem with comp picks is that the team talking heads always say 3rd round comp, 4th round comp.

The reality of it is that the 3rd round comp picks are actually 4th round picks since they come AFTER the 3rd round and the 4th rounders are 5th etc.

I've never seen a team that was so proud of getting 4th and 5th round picks.

That being said, it's still hard to sign anyone in free agency when the prices are nearly double what the guys are worth.  Teams are paying $8 million for 2nd and 3rd WRs.

[Au165]

(10-11-2016, 02:29 PM)Derrick Wrote: Again, I say the Bengals draft success is always overhyped. Folks, it has not been nearly as good as we are asked to believe.

It is relative to all other teams in the league. The thing is it is similar to batting in baseball, make contact 3 out of 10 times and you are an all star.

[bengals67]

Guys the problem with the team is not the departing free agents except possibly Andre Smith

The problem is that our lines are average ( D) and below average (O).

When the QB gets 5 to 6 seconds to throw, lots of 5th round WRs can get open and most NFL QBs will hit them

When the QB has two second or less to throw because your center is getting bull rushed you could have AJ, Julio Jones and Moss in his prime and it would not matter.

Our prime competition - the Steelers- have a much superior O line and a D line that allows their LBs to make plays.

That is the problem - not the FAs that left.

[BernLock]

(10-11-2016, 01:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The amount of draft picks on a roster is deceptive. What matters is the amount of draft picks that are impact players.

Losing Smith, Sanu, and Jones hurt the team. They were replaced by guys who aren't as good as them.

I know you are upset all the recent losses but come on. They have one of the most talented and deepest rosters in the league. All of whom were drafted. These boards need to take a couple days off to cool down

[*Go Cards*]

(10-11-2016, 03:04 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Guys the problem with the team is not the departing free agents except possibly Andre Smith

The problem is that our lines are average ( D) and below average (O).

When the QB gets 5 to 6 seconds to throw, lots of 5th round WRs can get open and most NFL QBs will hit them

When the QB has two second or less to throw because your center is getting bull rushed you could have AJ, Julio Jones and Moss in his prime and it would not matter.

Our prime competition - the Steelers- have a much superior O line and a D line that allows their LBs to make plays.

That is the problem - not the FAs that left.

Yep and the sad part is how much the Bengals have invested in the O-line just to be subpar.  

[sonofstat]

It's bizarre. We were getting no love when we were building the talent for our playoff squads - broadly 2009-2012.

Since then we've been praised for our drafts 'on paper' when in reality they have not provided much in the way of true quality

Of our top 3 picks from last 3 years who is really going to genuinely beat out the starter as opposed to just inherit the position because of FA or age??....or to put it another way..

is Dennard going to be as good as A.Jones
is Jackson going to be as good as Dre K
is Ogbuehi going to be as good as Whit
is Fisher going to be as good as Dre Smith
is Boyd going to be as good as MJones
is Vigil going to be as good as Maualuga
is Clarke going to be as good as Johnson/Dunlap

I'm not saying all the incumbent starters are superstars but they have been key and productive parts of the playoff squads.

If some of these draft picks don't develop quick and we don't/can't invest further in Free agents then we simply lose quality...

...now Belichik and co. may be able to coach the hell out of supposedly inferior players to get better results but if we did not win a playoff game when we had the quality starters then i do not see how the current coaching staff will improve us when the draft has given them less to work with

[THE PISTONS]

(10-11-2016, 03:13 PM)BernLock Wrote: I know you are upset all the recent losses but come on. They have one of the most talented and deepest rosters in the league. All of whom were drafted. These boards need to take a couple days off to cool down

I don't think the talent is as great and deep as you say.

Guys like Zeitler and Michael Johnson have been below average this year. We're worse at RT after losing Andre Smith. We're worse at safety after losing Reggie Nelson. Williams has not been as good.

I'd say Marvin Jones was slightly better than LaFell.

What positions are we better at this year than we were last year?

[sonofstat]

(10-11-2016, 03:13 PM)BernLock Wrote: I know you are upset all the recent losses but come on. They have one of the most talented and deepest rosters in the league. All of whom were drafted. These boards need to take a couple days off to cool down

Hey BernLock,

this has been one of the most talented and deepest rosters absolutely...and I am still hopeful we turn it around but I just think for this season the guys who were drafted to maintain the same level of play as their predecessors are not there yet ( and unfortunately its looking like some may never get there...)

if you look at our best players that were drafted on defense and offense they are all from a while back now (Andy , AJ - 2011 , Carlos , Geno  - 2010)....you need to keep replenishing the stocks and I'm worried that our talented and deep roster is gonna get eroded by FA (Nelson, Jones, Sanu...maybe Zeitler this year?) and age / wear & tear  (Whit,Peko, A.Jones, Mauluga).

As of now its not obvious where the talent from the past 3 drafts is to keep us one of the most talented and deepest rosters

[*Go Cards*]

yep, seemed we definitely drafted better when Zimmer and Gruden were our coordinators.

[THE PISTONS]

Several years ago the 49ers had the most talented roster in the NFL...now they have one of the least talented. Things change.

I pose the question to anyone: What positions on our roster are better this year than last year? (And it doesn't have to be an acquisition...simply name a player who is playing better.)

[*ochocincos*]

(10-11-2016, 04:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Several years ago the 49ers had the most talented roster in the NFL...now they have one of the least talented. Things change.

I pose the question to anyone: What positions on our roster are better this year than last year? (And it doesn't have to be an acquisition...simply name a player who is playing better.)

The only position I can think of is LB. It's the same set of LBs with the addition of Dansby. But it doesn't seem like this position is any better. Perhaps that's due to some change with Haslett coming in...?

[sonofstat]

(10-11-2016, 04:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Several years ago the 49ers had the most talented roster in the NFL...now they have one of the least talented. Things change.

I pose the question to anyone: What positions on our roster are better this year than last year? (And it doesn't have to be an acquisition...simply name a player who is playing better.)

you know the sad thing...I can't think of one starter! ...Hunt and Clarke are at least contributing but they could not do less than last year!

With all the attention on the offense and run defense its also easy to forget we're not as good on special teams this year too.

Good god we were better with Tate than Erickson at this point, no Peerman..and even Huber has been worse!

I cannot believe we will not improve but i think we are going to have to take our lumps this year and pray to god some of these recent draftees start to develop and learn from this year

[ItsOdellThurman]

Wrong. The Bengals have been built on depth.

Many of the great draft picks by this regime were not contributors right away. Look no further than some of the starters now...they did not play right away either.

Obviously skill players are guys who will see the field earlier if they bring something specific to the table, but for the most part, the Bengals haven't let skill players go. Sanu was overpaid and MJJ took the money...the Bengals offered that money, he didn't want to be with another elite WR.

It was bad timing. Should the team have planned for it better and invested more in WR talent? Yes. However, the results of this season are not that much of an argument against their draft philosophy, but more of a knock on their refusal to really sign players on the market.

There are plenty of WR's who were cheaper and readily available over LaFell. There are many of those guys who are performing better than LaFell right now.