Trestman Fired

[Essex Johnson]

(10-13-2016, 07:01 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: There hasn't been as much talent on that side of the ball as there has been on defense. The best they've had in the last 4 years is Ricky Wagner (great rookie year under Kubiak, didn't live up to that under Trestman) and Crocket Gilllmore (Did a good job filling in when Pitta was injured last year) with the jury still out on Perriman and Stanley. Stanley looked good in his first 3 games (missed the last two) and Perriman could develop into a legitimate deep threat, but he needs to work on his mechanics (he should have had that game winning TD last week, but he didn't let his foot drag). 

I won't pretend like drafting isn't an issue, but I'd compare the team they fielded in 2014 to the one in 2015 and ask what the major difference was beyond OC. This isn't to say Trestman was the only issue, but anyone can objectively say that his play calling was not suited for what the team's strengths were. Talent wise, the only disadvantage this 2016 squad has over 2014 is losing Osemele. 

You are missing one big difference between 2014.. Forsett ran for over 1,200 yards 8 TDS and  and Torey Smith had  750 yds 11 TDs .. Ravens have gotten weaker in both positiions... when you are hoping that a aging WR in Smith at 37 to carry your WR core after a major injury you are setting your offense up for trouble..  Bring back Kubiak and he could not do what he did in 2014 ...  tell me where you have replaced 19 TDS and 2,000 yards taking out Forsett and Smith in 2014....  sure you picked up a up an down Wallace but I don;t see 2016 West or any WR even close to those two players of 2014.  

[BmorePat87]

(10-13-2016, 09:11 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You are missing one big difference between 2014.. Forsett ran for over 1,200 yards 8 TDS and  and Torey Smith had  750 yds 11 TDs .. Ravens have gotten weaker in both positiions... when you are hoping that a aging WR in Smith at 37 to carry your WR core after a major injury you are setting your offense up for trouble..  Bring back Kubiak and he could not do what he did in 2014 ...  tell me where you have replaced 19 TDS and 2,000 yards taking out Forsett and Smith in 2014....  sure you picked up a up an down Wallace but I don;t see 2016 West or any WR even close to those two players of 2014.  

You say that like Forsett was Rice in his prime. Forsett had a break out season at 29 years old and people were doubting he could do anything when the Ravens signed him. Hell, he wasn't even suppose to start until the Rice shit happened. Forsett was a guy who knew Kubiak's system and was able to work in that system. I don't know if West is any worse. He has 208 yards on 32 carries since replacing Forsett. 

Also, Wallace is a better receiver than T. Smith, and he's on pace for 870 yards and 10 TDs. Wallace, S. Smith, Perriman, and Pitta are a better group than T. Smith, S. Smith, Marlon Brown, and Owen Daniels. 

I don't expect a huge turn around, but I think this move puts this on the right path. There wasn't a lot of star power on that 2014, and this 2016 is arguably just as good.

[ItsOdellThurman]

(10-13-2016, 02:07 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You just contradicted yourself. 

If our OC is the reason Flacco did so well in 2014, then you cannot argue that the very same offense did bad in 2015 because of our QB not our OC if the only significant difference was our OC. 

Players vary from year to year.  I'm not absolving Trestman, but he has nothing to work with.  We all know an offense starts with a QB, and he hasn't had a good one.  My whole point from the get go?  He got fired.  Great.  Now lets see this "amazing Ravens offense" light it up.  If it happens, I'll eat crow.

My prediction?  They don't get any better, and statistically, they probably get worse.  This sounds like a move that had little to do with results and more to do with the fact that Flacco's best production (or he thinks it does) comes when he can just air it out using a run-first approach to set it up.  That probably happens considering he likely had a big say in this move.

Does it mean the Ravens have a playoff season?  I doubt it.

[BmorePat87]

(10-14-2016, 08:28 AM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: Players vary from year to year.  I'm not absolving Trestman, but he has nothing to work with.  We all know an offense starts with a QB, and he hasn't had a good one.  My whole point from the get go?  He got fired.  Great.  Now lets see this "amazing Ravens offense" light it up.  If it happens, I'll eat crow.

My prediction?  They don't get any better, and statistically, they probably get worse.  This sounds like a move that had little to do with results and more to do with the fact that Flacco's best production (or he thinks it does) comes when he can just air it out using a run-first approach to set it up.  That probably happens considering he likely had a big say in this move.

Does it mean the Ravens have a playoff season?  I doubt it.

So you're saying that an OC that plays to a team's advantages has better results?

Gotcha.

[Bmoreblitz]

(10-14-2016, 08:28 AM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: Players vary from year to year.  I'm not absolving Trestman, but he has nothing to work with.  We all know an offense starts with a QB, and he hasn't had a good one.  My whole point from the get go?  He got fired.  Great.  Now lets see this "amazing Ravens offense" light it up.  If it happens, I'll eat crow.

My prediction?  They don't get any better, and statistically, they probably get worse.  This sounds like a move that had little to do with results and more to do with the fact that Flacco's best production (or he thinks it does) comes when he can just air it out using a run-first approach to set it up.  That probably happens considering he likely had a big say in this move.

Does it mean the Ravens have a playoff season?  I doubt it.

Soooo. calling 22 straight passing plays in a row. The opponent couldn't stop the run. RB has 95 yards on 11 carries.  Yeah Trestman is a genius. Or you are just making illegitimate statements just for the sake of arguing or because it's the "Ravens"

[Essex Johnson]

(10-14-2016, 09:33 AM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Soooo. calling 22 straight passing plays in a row. The opponent couldn't stop the run. RB has 95 yards on 11 carries.  Yeah Trestman is a genius. Or you are just making illegitimate statements just for the sake of arguing or because it's the "Ravens"

Actually He mentioned the OC might be part of the problem but lets fact it.. Flacco has struggled now 3 out of the last 4 years at QB so you can;t just blame the last OC for his downward spiral

Here are some stats to back that up.

2008-2012 record:  54-26
2013-2016 record:  24-23

TDs to Ints:  
2008-2012 102-58
2013-2016-  65-48

Passer Rating
2008-2012  86.5
2013-2016  82

[Bmoreblitz]

(10-14-2016, 12:52 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Actually He mentioned the OC might be part of the problem but lets fact it.. Flacco has struggled now 3 out of the last 4 years at QB so you can;t just blame the last OC for his downward spiral

Here are some stats to back that up.

2008-2012 record:  54-26
2013-2016 record:  24-23

TDs to Ints:  
2008-2012 102-58
2013-2016-  65-48

Passer Rating
2008-2012  86.5
2013-2016  82

Funny................................................. 2014 was his best year statistically. 2015 he was on to have an even better year before the major knee injury.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-13-2016, 10:17 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Flacco went from a top rated QB

When did that ever happen?

[ItsOdellThurman]

I never argued Trestman wasn't the problem. My whole point was...he's the fall guy. And at 3-2, not 0-5, it sounds like Joe Flacco didn't like him and he got canned because of his decision-making from a game that was the tipping point.

Like I said, we will let the results speak for themselves. Lets compare Flacco's ranks right now to his ranks after the season. Lets compare the Ravens ranks right now to their ranks after the season. That will say it all.

[BmorePat87]

(10-15-2016, 12:48 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: When did that ever happen?

2014

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-15-2016, 09:07 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: 2014

Top rated by what standard? Saying it was his best statistical season doesn't mean mean top rated.

[ItsOdellThurman]

No idea what you're talking about.

2014 passing numbers for Joe Flacco.

QBR (11th), passer rating (16th), yards (12th), comp % (22nd), TD (13th).

For comparison, 2015 passing numbers for Andy Dalton. This is with Dalton playing 12 games and 1 drive.

QBR (5th), passer rating (2nd), yards (21st), comp % (8th), TD (14th).

[ItsOdellThurman]

(10-15-2016, 09:48 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Top rated by what standard? Saying it was his best statistical season doesn't mean mean top rated.

...and the thing is, Flacco has never been close to "the best statistical season."

He's never thrown for 4000 yards.  He's never thrown 30 TD's in a season.  He's never posted a QBR over 67 (Dalton was at 73 last year).  Career QB rating is 84.4 (Dalton 89.0, Cutler 85.7, A. Smith 84.6, for comparison-sake).

Lets face it.  The guy had a magical 3-game run and won a ring.  It's the only reason he's not talked about in the Cutler tier of QB's who shouldn't even be NFL starters.  He's that bad.

[ItsOdellThurman]

How about that new offense and Flacco's numbers today? A strong 61.2 QBR. The 307 yards looks great, but doing it with 48 attempts? Not so impressive.

[ItsOdellThurman]

The Flacco guy hasn't been around much. Marc Trestman is smiling somewhere. Ravens pass offense since hew as fired? Far worse than before he was canned.

[BmorePat87]

(10-23-2016, 10:32 PM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: The Flacco guy hasn't been around much.  Marc Trestman is smiling somewhere.  Ravens pass offense since hew as fired?  Far worse than before he was canned.

The firing didn't make it worse. They aren't playing any better, but the O line and Smith injuries have more to do with any difference in play than firing Trestman. I doubt he's smiling since he's not getting a paycheck right now. It was still the right thing to do, Trestman called poor game plans. The management and play of this team in general is just poor. 

[Essex Johnson]

(10-23-2016, 11:21 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The firing didn't make it worse. They aren't playing any better, but the O line and Smith injuries have more to do with any difference in play than firing Trestman. I doubt he's smiling since he's not getting a paycheck right now. It was still the right thing to do, Trestman called poor game plans. The management and play of this team in general is just poor. 

Well in the end it comes down to wins and losses not excuses.. He was fired they were 3-2, since then 0-2, if they don;t improve in the win column   and end up 9-7 or better tough to justify the firing when they were 3-2 at the time they let him go.

As i stated before.. no way do i see Flacco playing at the top 10 QB he was supposed to be... He seems to have regressed.. I watch some of the Ravens game and he had some just bad passes today.

[ItsOdellThurman]

Flacco was never close to a top 10 QB. It may have been the right move long-term, but it's probably also the right move long-term to move on from Joe Flacco. And believe me, I've heard the "move on from Dalton" angle for years.

[BmorePat87]

(10-23-2016, 11:55 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well in the end it comes down to wins and losses not excuses.. He was fired they were 3-2, since then 0-2, if they don;t improve in the win column   and end up 9-7 or better tough to justify the firing when they were 3-2 at the time they let him go.

As i stated before.. no way do i see Flacco playing at the top 10 QB he was supposed to be... He seems to have regressed.. I watch some of the Ravens game and he had some just bad passes today.

Some how I don't think the people paid to actually do this would say "well, we lost two so that means the new guy is worse", but I get the argument from a fan perspective.

Also, I agree on Flacco. Every week he looks less and less confident and more and more ready to just give up. He's got his MVP. He's in the record book. He's got his millions. I don't think he has any more drive.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-24-2016, 01:25 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Some how I don't think the people paid to actually do this would say "well, we lost two so that means the new guy is worse", but I get the argument from a fan perspective.

Also, I agree on Flacco. Every week he looks less and less confident and more and more ready to just give up. He's got his MVP. He's in the record book. He's got his millions. I don't think he has any more drive.

final judgement on the switch will be how they end up end of year.. so far 0-2 with new OC is not a good start but we will see.. but im going to put more blame or praise on Flacco at end of year depending on their record than i will the new OC.. I think he is more of a key than a OC.