dalton and mccaron talk plus conspiracy theories

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-15-2016, 07:32 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: I've been talking alot about Dalton on Bengals sites and Facebook.  I know Dalton lovers really hate me for talking about him in any way.   Especially since the o line has been bad, and play calling has been looking bad.  But remember when we had all the bad calls and alot of conspiracy theorist came out, including myself.  There was alot of talk how the teams with the most fans usually get the calls and refs favor.  Got to please the majority right?  Well wouldn't it make sense if Mccaron was our qb if that theory is true?  He brings all of roll tide with him. Which we know is a ton of people. I don't think Alabama even has a NFL team do they?  

I'm just going to hate to see the guy go somewhere else and he wins big, and if we was still losing and we look like we let another get away.  And believe me I like Dalton. But I treat my team like a business. It's about success and wins for my team.  When we lose I get down and out, I get pissed too. Then the good parts of reading these Bengal sites is the jokes.  All you can do is laugh about stuff to get through it.  I thought dalton was great for the most part last year, I really was glad I was wrong about him. We went 8-0 and accomplished milestones during the season.  BUT like I've discussed I'm kind of reverting back to not liking his game.  I hate losing I'll say that. I just want to win and I don't care if it's dalton or mccaron, and I am a believer in the conspiracy stuff with the NFL.  What's your thoughts?

I am definately not a coincidence theorist but in the end the better QB should start and from what we have
seen from both of these QB's it is clear who the better QB is, Dalton. McCarron also holds onto the ball way
too long and with this OL play i bet we would have like twice as many sacks as we already do if we had AJM
at the helm.

[muskiesfan]

I don't see most "Dalton lovers" saying that McCarron sucks. Most are just see that Dalton is the far better QB. I don't dislike McCarron. I do think he has potential, he's just not going to get to show it in Cincinnati as long as Dalton is there. I'm not saying McCarron isn't worthy of fans, I just feel he gained a lot of his fans by simply not being Andy Dalton.

At the end of the day, I don't mind if McCarron takes his fans with him when he goes. There will still be plenty of Bengals fans left to tear Dalton down. I don't know that winning a Super Bowl or MVP or anything like that would be enough for some fans to give Dalton credit. For some reason, some fans have never given Dalton a fair shake. No matter his success, fans have been calling for him to be replaced every damn year. Yes, Dalton makes mistakes. Yes, he has bad games. Every QB does. It's inevitable. Dalton is becoming/has become a top 10 QB and there is still a contingent of Bengals fans who would rather replace him than support him.

[bengalsturntup926]

(10-15-2016, 01:39 PM)jason Wrote: If McCarran brings all if Alabama with him, then shouldn't Dalton be bringing the fine people of Katy and Forth Worth TX with him?

Hell Vontaze Burfict alone brings Los Angeles and Phoenix. Throw in Vincent Rey, and his supporters from New York City, and the Bengals easily have the largest fan base in the NFL.

But here's where you're wrong.... I'm a Buckeye, and Ryan Shazier and Cam Heywood can go **** themselves.

Alabama doesn't have a pro team. They look at Aj as one of their best they ever had.Texas has two pro teams. Go look at mccarons Facebook page is one example, tons of people support him. When dalton had one before he got told off all the time, it wasnt anything like aj' s. 

[bengalsturntup926]

(10-15-2016, 02:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am definately not a coincidence theorist but in the end the better QB should start and from what we have
seen from both of these QB's it is clear who the better QB is, Dalton. McCarron also holds onto the ball way
too long and with this OL play i bet we would have like twice as many sacks as we already do if we had AJM
at the helm.

Can't agree there, I don't consider myself a dalton hater. I liked how he was playing under hue.play calling was better too. I'm not saying it's all dalton either. But even though mccaron was boring in his 3 measly starts,he went to OT with the Superbowl champs without Eifert. It was raining hard in the playoff game, with a NFL ref screw job and we almost won with mccaron.  The NFL already had a agenda for pitsburgh Denver and new England they wanted ratings .I actually called Manning winning the superbowl in week 12 or 13 last year. I brought this post up because overall mccaron actually might be better for us with his fan base and him being more better of a pocket passer.we could actually lose next year too. Marvin and Andy are also tied together a new coach might not want to start Andy.

[Brownshoe]

lol @ this thread

[bengalsturntup926]

(10-15-2016, 03:48 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I don't see most "Dalton lovers" saying that McCarron sucks. Most are just see that Dalton is the far better QB. I don't dislike McCarron. I do think he has potential, he's just not going to get to show it in Cincinnati as long as Dalton is there. I'm not saying McCarron isn't worthy of fans, I just feel he gained a lot of his fans by simply not being Andy Dalton.

At the end of the day, I don't mind if McCarron takes his fans with him when he goes. There will still be plenty of Bengals fans left to tear Dalton down. I don't know that winning a Super Bowl or MVP or anything like that would be enough for some fans to give Dalton credit. For some reason, some fans have never given Dalton a fair shake. No matter his success, fans have been calling for him to be replaced every damn year. Yes, Dalton makes mistakes. Yes, he has bad games. Every QB does. It's inevitable. Dalton is becoming/has become a top 10 QB and there is still a contingent of Bengals fans who would rather replace him than support him.

You sound like a big dalton lover lol most of his criticism was well warranted in years 2-4. Last year was the first I thought I was wrong and he could lead us to a Superbowl. This year without Hugh I just started asking questions again. Do you know most of Dalton's stats are because of the west coast offense. He's king of short passes,screens dump offs slants. NoT like he's dropping back airing it out like Palmer used too. Or Aaron Rodgers or somebody. Also dalton has been given a top 3 receiver and a top 3 tight end. Plus a great defense.hes been given a good dump off running back too. 

[bengalsturntup926]

(10-15-2016, 04:25 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: lol @ this thread

Glad I can entertain

[muskiesfan]

(10-15-2016, 04:26 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: You sound like a big dalton lover lol most of his criticism was well warranted in years 2-4. Last year was the first I thought I was wrong and he could lead us to a Superbowl. This year without Hugh I just started asking questions again. Do you know most of Dalton's stats are because of the west coast offense. He's king of short passes,screens dump offs slants. NoT like he's dropping back airing it out like Palmer used too. Or Aaron Rodgers or somebody. Also dalton has been given a top 3 receiver and a top 3 tight end. Plus a great defense.hes been given a good dump off running back too. 

We could go back and forth all day. I look at more than simply stats. We were predicted to be winless Dalton's rookie year. We went 9-7 and went to the playoffs. That was supposed to be a fluke season, but he followed it up with another winning record and playoff appearance. Then another. Then another. Then another. I've never said Dalton doesn't have weapons, but there's only one weapon above Dalton and that's Green. Dalton helps make the other players better, not the other way around.

I like how short passes are used to knock Dalton, but other QBs who use that in place of their non-existent running games are simply great QBs. Dalton has already has 22 completions of 20+ and 5 of 40+. That doesn't sound like a strictly dink and dunk QB to me. People don't say Roethlisberger is dink and dunk and he has 20 completions of 20+ and 6 of 40+ this year.

I never said Dalton didn't deserve any criticism, but his career has had an upward trajectory. Besides 2014 when the WR corps had tons of injuries, Dalton has gotten better every year. That's not simply being a Dalton lover, McCarron hater, conspiracy theorist, or anything like that. The biggest knock seemed to be turnovers. Dalton's awareness has greatly improved. He only threw 7 picks last year and only has 2 so far this year. Dalton is also 3rd in the NFL in passing yards and has a QB rating of 96.3. I don't see how he's a bad QB or how any of that screams "replace me!".

I'll take the label of Dalton lover.  You better believe I'm a lover of a drafted and groomed QB who has grown into a top 10 NFL player at his position and has improved each and every year in the league.

[bengalsturntup926]

(10-15-2016, 01:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Over last 2 seasons:

Aaron Rodgers:
59.8% completion rate
6.61 Yards per attempt
234.9 yards per game
91.7 rating

Andy Dalton:
66.5% completion rate
8.29 yards per attempt
279.6 yards per game
103.0 rating

Dalton actually has more yards than Rodgers in 3 fewer games.

When I see these posts calling for McCarron to start and Nick Saban to be hired, I have to wonder where certain "unbiased" posters are and why they aren't calling out the silliness on both sides. If you're calling for a benching of a guy throwing up top 10 numbers for some guy on the bench that averaged 160 yards in 4 starts, you're being delusional.

And while it's possible that big fan bases get some calls, I don't think McCarron will bring as many fans as some think. Did Carson help us with all the USC nation? What about our Auburn, Michigan and LSU fans? This just seems like an excuse to legitimize a McCarron vs Dalton discussion.

This is rediculous lol there's more into stats,you got to determine why that guy had certain stats. Do you honestly believe dalton is better then rodgers? Just by looking at stats?  Andy's receivers gets a bunch of yac, he hardly has to throw past ten yards most the time. That inflates stats! Dalton is like #2 in yards this yearbut only has 5 tds. But you know why he's the leader?  Cause we threw 40-50 times a game,and he pads his stats in garbage time lol. For all the dalton lovers who rather have him win or lose. I hope I'm wrong and we start kicking ass this year. I'm just tired of this, every damn year I wait for the season for another failure when does it stop?  

[Stonyhands]

(10-15-2016, 08:39 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I highly doubt that switching to McCarron would have made much of a difference, these losses have been team losses. Besides, McCarron couldn't lead the team to victory over the Broncos or Steelers last season, when the rest of the team was playing well, really well.

McCarron played well enough in the playoffs last year for us to win that game. Hill gave the game away along with the implosion on defense.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-15-2016, 06:11 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: McCarron played well enough in the playoffs last year for us to win that game.  Hill gave the game away along with the implosion on defense.

If McCarron played like even just a mediocre QB against the 31st pass defense in that playoff game last year, the Bengals would have blown out the Steelers and Hill could have fumbled and it wouldn't have mattered, because they would have been up 3 or 4 scores.

[bengalsturntup926]

(10-15-2016, 07:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If McCarron played like even just a mediocre QB against the 31st pass defense in that playoff game last year, the Bengals would have blown out the Steelers and Hill could have fumbled and it wouldn't have mattered, because they would have been up 3 or 4 scores.

You do realize rain screws up even Tom Brady don't you? Wasn't big Ben sucking in the same game? He moved the ball on penalties that last drive.and he's been in the league how many years?  Mccarons 4th start in the NFL was a playoff game in the rain. That takes guts bro. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-15-2016, 03:54 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Alabama doesn't have a pro team. They look at Aj as one of their best they ever had.Texas has two pro teams. Go look at mccarons Facebook page is one example, tons of people support him. When dalton had one before he got told off all the time, it wasnt anything like aj' s. 

Goddamn.....Facebook?  LMFAO......did we seriously just enter Facebook likes as a barometer on judging QBs?  FFS.....I gotta take back a post from last week about the dumbest thing I ever read on the internet....holy shit!


Also.....hasn't Saban already had his ass kicked once in the NFL? Yeah.....thought so.  I'm all for Marvin Lewis hitting the bricks...and Aaron Rodgers coming to quarterback....but neither are happening soon.  Dalton is just better....there is no magical and mysterious "love".  The sumbitch is just BETTER.  Hell fire man.....

[BigPapaKain]

Ugh.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-15-2016, 04:26 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: You sound like a big dalton lover lol most of his criticism was well warranted in years 2-4. Last year was the first I thought I was wrong and he could lead us to a Superbowl. This year without Hugh I just started asking questions again. Do you know most of Dalton's stats are because of the west coast offense. He's king of short passes,screens dump offs slants. NoT like he's dropping back airing it out like Palmer used too. Or Aaron Rodgers or somebody. Also dalton has been given a top 3 receiver and a top 3 tight end. Plus a great defense.hes been given a good dump off running back too. 

Well....what does it say about AJ when he had all of the above and then shit the bed and cost us seeding opportunities in Denver?  Shitsburgh twice?  He beat two shitty teams....and barely did that.  A horrible 49ers team....and Baltimore with a 5th string QB.  Put the pipe down dude.....you may need some sleep.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-15-2016, 08:41 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: You do realize rain screws up even Tom Brady don't you? Wasn't big Ben sucking in the same game? He moved the ball on penalties that last drive.and he's been in the league how many years?  Mccarons 4th start in the NFL was a playoff game in the rain. That takes guts bro. 

There wasn't really that much rain, man. I mean, there was rain, but Tom Brady struggled in the game where there was basically a monsoon against the Bengals. There wasn't even as much rain as the Steelers game *this* year, when they had like 8 drops.

Also, the Rapist had a 92.0 QB Rating, and 0 turnovers in that game against a significantly better defense than McCarron faced. If McCarron could recreate Roethlisberger's stats from that game, the Bengals would have handily won. It wouldn't have been close.

I think you're mixing a game with more rain in your mind with Landry Jones' appearance in the middle of the game from when Roethlisberger got hurt. Landry Jones went 2/5, 11 yards, 1 INT before Roethlisberger came back in.

Don't try to revise history, even if it's awful history.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-15-2016, 05:00 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: This is rediculous lol there's more into stats,you got to determine why that guy had certain stats. Do you honestly believe dalton is better then rodgers? Just by looking at stats?  Andy's receivers gets a bunch of yac, he hardly has to throw past ten yards most the time. That inflates stats! Dalton is like #2 in yards this yearbut only has 5 tds. But you know why he's the leader?  Cause we threw 40-50 times a game,and he pads his stats in garbage time lol. For all the dalton lovers who rather have him win or lose. I hope I'm wrong and we start kicking ass this year. I'm just tired of this, every damn year I wait for the season for another failure when does it stop?  

Here's the thing about stats. I'll take them over a biased opinion any day. You say Dalton throws more short passes than most? Well, stats disprove that statement. Dink and dunkers don't average well over 8 YPA. They don't throw a high percentage of 20+ and 40+ yard passes. You say Dalton only leads the AFC in yardage because "he throws 40-50 times per game", but he averages 37.4 attempts, which only ranks 10th. The "stats" show that what you think you see doesn't match reality.

Fwiw, no I don't think Dalton is better than Rodgers, but yes I do think Dalton has outplayed him the last 2 years. Not sure what's wrong with Rodgers, but he isn't himself. While Dalton has played at a high level.

I feel your pain on the season, but you're placing blame on the wrong guy IMO.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-15-2016, 05:00 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: This is rediculous lol there's more into stats,you got to determine why that guy had certain stats. Do you honestly believe dalton is better then rodgers? Just by looking at stats? Andy's receivers gets a bunch of yac, he hardly has to throw past ten yards most the time. That inflates stats! Dalton is like #2 in yards this yearbut only has 5 tds. But you know why he's the leader?  Cause we threw 40-50 times a game,and he pads his stats in garbage time lol. For all the dalton lovers who rather have him win or lose. I hope I'm wrong and we start kicking ass this year. I'm just tired of this, every damn year I wait for the season for another failure when does it stop?  

Nope. Last year, GB ranked #8 in yac with 2.026 yards.
Bengals ranked #23 with 1,794. 

This year, Bengals rank #6 with 682 yards and GB ranks #29 with 425. 

Since the beginning of last year. 
GB -- 2,451
CIN - 2,476
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-yards-after-catch-statistics/2016/

Also, re: only 5 tds; in 2013, Dalton had 5 tds and 5 ints after 5 games and ended up throwing for 33 tds. 

[BengalYankee]

(10-15-2016, 07:32 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: I've been talking alot about Dalton on Bengals sites and Facebook.  I know Dalton lovers really hate me for talking about him in any way.   Especially since the o line has been bad, and play calling has been looking bad.  But remember when we had all the bad calls and alot of conspiracy theorist came out, including myself.  There was alot of talk how the teams with the most fans usually get the calls and refs favor.  Got to please the majority right?  Well wouldn't it make sense if Mccaron was our qb if that theory is true?  He brings all of roll tide with him. Which we know is a ton of people. I don't think Alabama even has a NFL team do they?  

I'm just going to hate to see the guy go somewhere else and he wins big, and if we was still losing and we look like we let another get away.  And believe me I like Dalton. But I treat my team like a business. It's about success and wins for my team.  When we lose I get down and out, I get pissed too. Then the good parts of reading these Bengal sites is the jokes.  All you can do is laugh about stuff to get through it.  I thought dalton was great for the most part last year, I really was glad I was wrong about him. We went 8-0 and accomplished milestones during the season.  BUT like I've discussed I'm kind of reverting back to not liking his game.  I hate losing I'll say that. I just want to win and I don't care if it's dalton or mccaron, and I am a believer in the conspiracy stuff with the NFL.  What's your thoughts?

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-15-2016, 09:05 PM)Wyche Wrote: Goddamn.....Facebook?  LMFAO......did we seriously just enter Facebook likes as a barometer on judging QBs?  FFS.....I gotta take back a post from last week about the dumbest thing I ever read on the internet....holy shit!


Also.....hasn't Saban already had his ass kicked once in the NFL? Yeah.....thought so.  I'm all for Marvin Lewis hitting the bricks...and Aaron Rodgers coming to quarterback....but neither are happening soon.  Dalton is just better....there is no magical and mysterious "love".  The sumbitch is just BETTER.  Hell fire man.....

Amen !

We don't need a change at QB, we need a change at HC. It's as clear as it can be, these players no longer believe. This is the most poorly coached team in the league, a bunch of talent and MB refuses to give up on the ML project.

Dalton is one of the very few putting forth any effort thus far.