All-Bengals team just from the Lewis era.

[Judge Dredd]

QB- Carson Palmer 

RB- Correy Dillon
RB- Jeremy Hill
FB- Jeremi Johnson
WR- Chad Johnson
WR- AJ Green
WR- TJ Houshmandzadeh
TE- Jermaine Gresham
TE- Tyler Eiffert
LT- Whit
LG- Steinbach
C- Braham
RG- Bobbie Williams
RT- Willie

DE- Carlos Dunlap
DT- Geno Atkins
DT- Justin Smith
DE- David Pollack
WLB- Vontaze Burfict
MLB- Odell Thurman
SLB- Brian Simmons
CB1- Jonathan Joseph
CB2- Leon Hall 
CB3- Deltha O'neal
S- Reggie Nelson
S- George Iloka

KR- A. Jones
PR- A. Jones
K- M. Nugent
P- K. Huber

[Ben Richards]

A.J. and Chris Henry on the same team would have been unfair to the league regardless of QB

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-11-2015, 03:18 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: The WR corp of Chad Johnson and AJ Green with Housh in the slot is absolutely awesome. Palmer in his prime prior to the injury throwing 70 yard bombs to AJ on a rope.

Damn man.

Yup, we'd look pretty good until primetime games and the playoffs.......when Mediocre Marv gets that 1000 yard stare going.

If we could have these players listed with a real coaching staff, "Damn man" indeed.

[kevin]

I will have to give this some thought, but....considering the 4 straight play-off seasons and 5 out of last 6 years in play-offs, I'm going to pick mostly from this era and not the 2005 team of 1 play-off season in 6 years. ...I'm sure of his dozen years, I will focus more on the last 6 years. People act like the 2005 team won the Super Bowl. They didn't win a play-off game either, all excuses aside. Yes Carson got injured, but Kitna had a nice lead at half time as QB. Some of the team flipped out in the locker room at halftime when they heard how bad Carson was injured. Had they gave some support to Kitna, they may have held the lead. Kitna put up good numbers later with Detroit. We could have won with him, had some players not flipped out at halftime. The 2005 team fell apart fast into 2006, 2007,2008......I like the last 6 years except for the awful 2010 season of which I'm glad some big egos left this team and young players came in more focused on the program than self exploitation. .....I will say I would start with Whitworth, who always was focused and had to get in the face of some problem Bengals during games, players that wanted out of Cincinnati. Whitworth is GREAT.

Yes, there have been no play-off wins....but....The Bengals have had winning seasons 5 of the last 6 seasons, which never ever happened before in Cincinnati Bengals history. I'm pretty sure I will pick players from the last 6 years. Dalton will easily be my quarterback, never having a losing season in his first 4 years, and starting every game, 64 straight regular season starts. The players that wanted out of Cincinnati and trash talked Cincinnati will not be on my list. They were bad for moral and put themselves before the team. I will not support or salute that. Carson refusing to play here could have caused losing seasons from 2011 on, if not for the rookie Andy Dalton stepping up, and he was NOT a 1st round pick. .....Whitworth, and Dalton to Green, I will start with those 3. Not a bad place to start. .....Our front 4 going into 2015 will be my front 4. Atkins, Dunlap, Peko, MJ, that is the best front 4 in Bengals history.....Nelson and Hall have to be DB's....RT is a toss up because we have had Smith but I really liked Big Willie who is my All-Time Bengals RT. ....RB could be Benson, who carried the 2009 season on his back and legs....If I take away the problem players at WR, I see maybe we were not as deep at WR as fans thought. Perhaps WR was a weakness all along. I can put down AJ Green very easy. The other names come harder. TJ was pretty good when we had him. I could go with AJ and TJ......but hoping in 2015, some WR's step it up to take this team to the glory land. After all the bad things Chad Ocho said about Bengals day after day on ESPN and all networks and his kissing the Dallas star at mid field and asking the Dallas owner to please get him away from Bengals, ,then going to New England and saying he won't do his comedy show there because they are a real team ( he was a bench warmer there )...I can't respect or salute any of that.....Bengals Team was around way before Chad/ Ocho was born and will be around long after he is dead...The Bengals have missed him and Carson so much that they have had 4 straight winning seasons without them after they left, after Carson/Ocho 4 win season in 2010. ....This team is moving up, up, up with the new young players, this era, this team.....Oh, Huber and Nugent are on my team....It's hard to pick LB's and I feel that has been a weakness under Coach Lewis. I'm hoping LB isn't our weakness in 2015 . Man, if we had top notch linebackers, and some WR's step up, we could win the Super Bowl, if we can stay healthy and not lose half the team to injuries. I hope that Green Bay Packer still has some game left, we could use him........I will add Zimmer as D coordinator on my list, and I look for him to return The Purple People Eaters Defense to Minnesota and be a power in the NFC North. I like his draft picks so far. He knows who to bring into his system. ...but we move on, and our D could be great in 2015.....Gresham is my TE for being a part of the winning season string, but we move on and word is that Eifert has recovered from his injury and ready to go.

I would want the TEAM FIRST players....and I would leave off the players often suspended and the players who trashed the team on the networks, putting their own ego above THE TEAM.....Football, more than most sports, has to be about THE TEAM.....Individualism and Fantasy Football numbers are for losers. Winning is about, The Team, The Team and The Team.....This group from 2011 on to 2015 has been more focused on the TEAM concept than 2003 to 2010, and why I LOVE THIS ERA, THIS TEAM. Some people are stuck in 2005, why, I don't know. I say, Bring On 2015, the sky is the limit.....as always, Go Bengals !!!

[*bfine32*]

(07-12-2015, 11:00 PM)Stormborn Wrote: I see a lot of Thurman's and no Pollack's.

The Thurman love is crazy. He was here one year and Dhani had 34 years tat dwarfed everything he did except INTs. I also remember Dhani being extra salty at TC. His contribution during Marvin's tenure is severely under-rated.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-12-2015, 11:00 PM)Stormborn Wrote: I see a lot of Thurman's and no Pollack's.

Pollack flashed potential, but who should Pollack knock off the roster? Justin Smith? Brian Simmons?

I can't justify putting a guy with 28 tackles and 4.5 sacks ahead of either of those guys.

(07-13-2015, 04:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The Thurman love is crazy. He was here one year and Dhani had 34 years tat dwarfed everything he did except INTs. I also remember Dhani being extra salty at TC. His contribution during Marvin's tenure is severely under-rated.

Dhani averaged 110 tackles while Odell had 98 in his lone season. Really, that's the only category that he wins.

- Odell had 5 int's, Dhani had 1 int in 4 seasons combined
- Odell had 5 forced fumbles, Dhani had 5 in 4 seasons combined
- Odell had 9 pass deflections, Dhani averaged 4.3 in his 4 seasons

Odell was a play maker and looked like a pro-bowl caliber player. That's why people talked about him for so long. Dhani was a nice locker room guy and I guess the bow-ties were cool. He was a totally average player though. 

[*bfine32*]

(07-13-2015, 08:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Pollack flashed potential, but who should Pollack knock off the roster? Justin Smith? Brian Simmons?

I can't justify putting a guy with 28 tackles and 4.5 sacks ahead of either of those guys.

Dhani averaged 110 tackles while Odell had 98 in his lone season. Really, that's the only category that he wins.

- Odell had 5 int's, Dhani had 1 int in 4 seasons combined
- Odell had 5 forced fumbles, Dhani had 5 in 4 seasons combined
- Odell had 9 pass deflections, Dhani averaged 4.3 in his 4 seasons

Odell was a play maker and looked like a pro-bowl caliber player. That's why people talked about him for so long. Dhani was a nice locker room guy and I guess the bow-ties were cool. He was a totally average player though. 

Tackles are pretty important for a MLB. Sorta like saying the only thing that RB did better was run the ball. Also You left out sacks. Also unsure why you intermixed totals and averages, unless you didn't want to concede that Dhani had 8 more PDs and 342 more tackles as a Bengal MLB.

Odell had one very good season. Dhani gave us 4 years of stability and fine play in the middle. I really don't even see it as a competition. Of course this is the same reason I went with Benson over Hill. But at least Hill has a chance to pass Ced.

[*jason*]

Carson Palmer - QB

Rudi Johnson, Jeremy Hill - HB

Jeremy Johnson - FB

TJ, Chad, AJ - WR

Tyler Eifert, Jermaine Gresham - TE

Whitworth, Steinbach, Braham, Zeitler, Big Willie - O line



Carlos Dunlap, Justin Smith - DE

Geno Atkins, Pat Sims - DT

Vontaze Burfict, Dhani Jones, Brian Simmons - LB

Leon Hall, Jonathon Joseph, Terrance Newman - CB

George Iloka, Reggie Nelson - S



Pacman - KR & PR

Shayne Graham - K

Kevin Huber - P

[*jason*]

(07-12-2015, 11:26 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Love that guy.

Me too.. He's a better pass rusher than Peko.  I picked Pat Sims on my team too.  I thought about Tank Johnson.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-13-2015, 08:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Tackles are pretty important for a MLB. Sorta like saying the only thing that RB did better was run the ball. Also You left out sacks. Also unsure why you intermixed totals and averages, unless you didn't want to concede that Dhani had 8 more PDs and 342 more tackles as a Bengal MLB.

Odell had one very good season. Dhani gave us 4 years of stability and fine play in the middle. I really don't even see it as a competition. Of course this is the same reason I went with Benson over Hill. But at least Hill has a chance to pass Ced.

Dhani averaged 12 more tackles than Odell. I'd trade the extra 0.75 tackles per game for the guy who had a combined 10 INT's and forced fumbles in a single season. Turnovers are perhaps the most important statistic in football games, and Odell was a machine in that category. Plus it's not like his tackle numbers were bad or anything. 98 is a solid number.

I respect Dhani. He did stabilize the position for awhile and he's a total class act. I just think Odell was a special player. That's why his fall was such a shame. I actually think Benson vs Hill is closer because Benson was pretty outstanding in '09. Imo, Dhani never had a season on par with Odell's.

[*bfine32*]

(07-13-2015, 11:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Dhani averaged 12 more tackles than Odell. I'd trade the extra 0.75 tackles per game for the guy who had a combined 10 INT's and forced fumbles in a single season. Turnovers are perhaps the most important statistic in football games, and Odell was a machine in that category. Plus it's not like his tackle numbers were bad or anything. 98 is a solid number.

I respect Dhani. He did stabilize the position for awhile and he's a total class act. I just think Odell was a special player. That's why his fall was such a shame. I actually think Benson vs Hill is closer because Benson was pretty outstanding in '09. Imo, Dhani never had a season on par with Odell's.

Once again going to averages instead of what they actually did.

I guess I just looked at it as what they did under Marvin; not what they could have done.

Odell was a 1st class screw up and lasted one year because of himself. Others can put him there; I won't. Hell I'd put Rey as #2.

[Stormborn]

(07-13-2015, 08:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Pollack flashed potential, but who should Pollack knock off the roster? Justin Smith? Brian Simmons?

I can't justify putting a guy with 28 tackles and 4.5 sacks ahead of either of those guys.

Simmons was one of my favorites, but Pollack was gonna be huge. I'd put him on it just for potential sake, right or wrong choice, I just wanted to see him more.

Along with Odell.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-14-2015, 12:00 AM)Stormborn Wrote: Simmons was one of my favorites, but Pollack was gonna be huge. I'd put him on it just for potential sake, right or wrong choice, I just wanted to see him more.

Along with Odell.

I loved them both and I was just as disappointed about Pollack as I was about Odell, for different reasons obviously. 

There really isn't much competition for Odell at MLB or I wouldn't have put him on my list either.

[Stormborn]

(07-14-2015, 12:15 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I loved them both and I was just as disappointed about Pollack as I was about Odell, for different reasons obviously. 

There really isn't much competition for Odell at MLB or I wouldn't have put him on my list either.

I'm more saddened about Pollack than Thurman though for the obvious reason. 

Both would've given us something we haven't had and still don't really have.

[fredtoast]

The love for Sims is just crazy.

Here are how Sims numbers compare to Peko if he had played the same number of games as Domata (139)

Sims...322 tkls....10.5 sacks...0 FF....4.5 PD
Peko...448 tkls....13.5 sacks...3 FF....8.0 PD

I actually like Sims. He was our 2nd round pick in my mock draft. I am glad we re-signed him. But I don't see how anyone can seriously claim he is better than Peko.

[djs7685]

(07-14-2015, 03:30 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The love for Sims is just crazy.

Here are how Sims numbers compare to Peko if he had played the same number of games as Domata (139)

Sims...322 tkls....10.5 sacks...0 FF....4.5 PD
Peko...448 tkls....13.5 sacks...3 FF....8.0 PD

I actually like Sims.  He was our 2nd round pick in my mock draft.  I am glad we re-signed him.  But I don't see how anyone can seriously claim he is better than Peko.

Here are Sims numbers compared to Peko if he played the same amount of snaps as Domata

Sims - 610 tackles, 19 sacks, 0 FF, 8 PD
Peko - 448 tackles, 13.5 sacks, 3 FF, 8 PD

This isn't the reason I think 2013 - present Sims is better than 2013 - present Peko, but hey, you had no problem doing the math for Sims if he played as many games so I just figured I'd show snap count too.

We've seen plenty of players look much different when put into a bigger role (Gilberry for a recent example), so you never know if Sims would reach those numbers. What we do know is that Pat Sims has been more productive at a per snap basis throughout his career than Peko. Peko has only had more stops per run snap than Sims once in his career....Pat Sims rookie season in 2008. It may not be so absurd to say Sims is at least equal to Peko, and there are legitimate arguments that he's better too.


It's not quite the comparison that you'd like it to be. It isn't like comparing Aaron Rodgers to Ryan Leaf. Let's not pretend it's so one sided because "hurr durr the coaches say he's good and they're coaches and you're not. There's over 100 DTs in the league and Peko starts therefore he winz teh prize!"

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-14-2015, 08:23 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Here are Sims numbers compared to Peko if he played the same amount of snaps as Domata

Sims - 610 tackles, 19 sacks, 0 FF, 8 PD
Peko - 448 tackles, 13.5 sacks, 3 FF, 8 PD

This isn't the reason I think 2013 - present Sims is better than 2013 - present Peko, but hey, you had no problem doing the math for Sims if he played as many games so I just figured I'd show snap count too.

We've seen plenty of players look much different when put into a bigger role (Gilberry for a recent example), so you never know if Sims would reach those numbers. What we do know is that Pat Sims has been more productive at a per snap basis throughout his career than Peko. Peko has only had more stops per run snap than Sims once in his career....Pat Sims rookie season in 2008. It may not be so absurd to say Sims is at least equal to Peko, and there are legitimate arguments that he's better too.


It's not quite the comparison that you'd like it to be. It isn't like comparing Aaron Rodgers to Ryan Leaf. Let's not pretend it's so one sided because "hurr durr the coaches say he's good and they're coaches and you're not. There's over 100 DTs in the league and Peko starts therefore he winz teh prize!"

Judging by the eye test......it just seems that the run stop is better with Sims, and he just gets better penetration....of course, that could change with more snaps, like you say.

[fredtoast]

(07-14-2015, 08:23 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Here are Sims numbers compared to Peko if he played the same amount of snaps as Domata

Sims - 610 tackles, 19 sacks, 0 FF, 8 PD
Peko - 448 tackles, 13.5 sacks, 3 FF, 8 PD

Wow, Peko has only played 2 more seasons than Sims (9 to 7), yet he has played almost 3 times as many snaps?

Amazing that so many different NFL coaches have kept a player of Sims ability on the bench so much of the time.

[djs7685]

(07-14-2015, 01:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wow, Peko has only played 2 more seasons than Sims (9 to 7), yet he has played almost 3 times as many snaps?

Amazing that so many different NFL coaches have kept a player of Sims ability on the bench so much of the time.

He is a lot like Peko in the sense that he is a pretty good rotational player.

Too bad the Bengals' coaches have played Peko as if he has been a good full time player over his whole career.

Also, Peko hasn't even doubled Sims snap count. I don't know where you're getting "almost 3 times as many snaps".

[djs7685]

(07-14-2015, 08:23 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Here are Sims numbers compared to Peko if he played the same amount of snaps as Domata

Sims - 610 tackles, 19 sacks, 0 FF, 8 PD
Peko - 448 tackles, 13.5 sacks, 3 FF, 8 PD

Sims - 398 tackles, 13 sacks, 0 FF, 5.5 PD

Those are his actual numbers if adjusted to Peko's snap count. (could be slightly low as I don't have data for Peko's 2006 snap count, I estimated at 500)

I see where you got the almost 3x now, when I was doing the quick math earlier, for some reason I used your numbers for Peko and Sims so you wouldn't complain about getting stuff from outside sources, but I had a brainfart and just now realized Sims numbers weren't his actual career stats. Those were his that you were showing the games played comparison.

Anyway, the above is accurate and shows eerily similar production to a guy that you claim is much superior to Pat Sims.