A few thoughts

[*Go Cards*]

Yep and agree with Shake and most everybody else here.

Run game looked good and Hill looked like rookie year self today. Worried about injury though.

Erickson has been a waste so far, looked the real deal in preseason but that seems to have been fools gold.

Dalton and AJ are incredible ! Proving it weekly and are keeping Bengals afloat.

Bad clock management during first half conclusion that was quickly forgotten when Mary answered the hail to AJ. Thought a TO should have been taken as soon as Cleveland did not convert 1st down.

Worried about Whit's availability for London game too.

Still very happy to get win. Season was over in my book if we would have lost.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-23-2016, 08:10 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'd say it's more likely that our run blocking suddenly looked competent against weak competition, than it is that Hill and Gio suddenly developed good vision and speed for one game. Gio has had a bad year running this year too, LL.

Actually, it's more than just this year. In Gio's previous 16 games heading into this week, he only rushed for 470 yards and 0 TDs on 3.73 yards per carry. Awful numbers. Worse than Hill over the same stretch.

I know you really don't like Hill, but Gio's recent numbers are strong evidence that it's more of a blocking problem than just a Hill problem.

Yeah, not saying Gio has been great running, but there's more than just that to the RB position. That's like saying JaMarcus Russell was a great QB because he had a cannon for an arm. True, but you also need to be able to read defenses, have pocket awareness, go through your progression quickly, get rid of the ball quickly, have good touch, etc.

I wanted to like Hill, and I will readily admit that the postseason fumble probably soured me on him a good amount. (Also he was my keeper in 2015 FF.) But I think he can still be a good RB, I just think the kind of RB he is will have to be dramatically revised. There was talk of 2,000 yard season coming into 2015, and how talented and such he was.

I'm starting to think Hill is now more of a LeGarrette Blount type RB. He has that occasionally huge game (148 yards, 3 TD in the 2014 postseason game against Indy, 105 and 2 TD against Houston this year and such) but outside of just giving him the ball on the first two downs, he doesn't really bring much to the table.

Gio is a superior blocker, blitz pickup, catching, making people miss, keeping the ball safe, running guys over, making chunk plays, running routes, endurance to stay in the game, keeping the pile moving forward, using his blockers, etc.

- - - - - - - - -

Today was the first time in a long time (other than that single TD run a couple weeks ago) that Hill has run consistently hard. Running hard isn't reliant upon blocking, even if the blocking this year has been shit.

[Derrick]

(10-23-2016, 07:55 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Agree with everything you said this division is up for grabs.
With Lafell playing this way and Eifert shaking off the rust it gets harder to double A.J. I'm glad we won but this team has some issues, Cleveland is not a good team by any means and if we play better competition we will not win. I don't wanna sound like a downer but  I had  Super Bowl aspirations for this team last year and I'm not gonna be satisfied with a sloppy win vs the worst team in the league with their 5th string qb, best WR hurt and pro bowl corner back out.  Coaching continues to be an issue the Green Hail Mary at the end of the half bailed out the terrible clock management of the coaching staff that even the commentators criticized. The defense has some major issues and can't get off the field on 3rd down to save their lives. They couldn't figure out how to stop a simple option with the qb , Michael Johnson looked lost and refused to tackle the Qb.  Speed at linebacker continues  to kill us. Hopefully they can clean it up anybody could win this division.
I totally agree with Lone Bengal. I also have a few opinions of my own:

1.       Dansby should be benched or cut;
2.       Sadly Vigil looked like a cardboard cutout on his one play;
3.       Middle of Defense looked useless with gaping holes;
4.       Defensive players DO NOT TACKLE WELL. Can this be coached?
5.       End of half heroics by AD and AJ in spite of Marvin. Can’t count on that ever working again;
6.       Green enjoyed single coverage a lot, but Zippy Zamp didn’t take advantage;
7.       Dalton seems to be taking too many sacks unnecessarily;
8.       Peko was manhandled all day and looks to be very close to "retirement";
9.       Williams carrying the ball after INT was a fumble waiting to happen – and it did;
10.   Defense never did adjust to QB/RB out the backside. QB had 100 yards;
11.   Dennard still seems lost;
12.   Nugent is Nugent-- what can I say except damn glad the game wasn't close;
13.   Ericson doesn’t look like I had hoped would as a returner, and NO I don't want Tate;
14.   Good News – Besides the W...No Nance or Simms. The commentators weren't very good though.         

[treee]

Excited to see how our passing game in the middle of the field improves once Boyd and Eifert are on the field at the same time more.

[Fresno B]

(10-23-2016, 08:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I guess we can disregard the best game Gio has had in 17 weeks as well, then.

After all, he's been terrible for awhile now, and this game came against weak completion.

Gio must be a terrible runner.

I don't care if Hill or Gio is the best runner. All I care about is the bengals winning. Although today was a good well deserved win, we shouldn't get carried away considering the team we just played is the absolute worst team. We did what we should have.

[Fresno B]

(10-23-2016, 08:35 PM)Ravage Wrote: Yes, they did, and unlike many MANY times before, the Bengals didn't play down to their level. This is a good thing.

Agreed.

[*rfaulk34*]

Here's another thought. 

A while back, there was some discussion on Dalton's arm strength.

The hail mary traveled 60-62 yds in the air with quite a bit of height to it. 

Discuss?

[WildCat]

(10-23-2016, 08:38 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Agree with all but who are we kidding. NE is going to the SB.

which is what i said. can't beat NE in NE doesn't matter if we make the playoffs. no bye for the bengals no matter.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-23-2016, 08:36 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I guess I'm struggling to understand folks who think Hill is a bad runner, but Gio is good, when they've both had bad YPC numbers over the last 2 years. Also, we spend so much time talking about how awful the o-line is, yet some people don't seem to think it's affecting our ability to run.

Seems people who hate Hill just don't want Hill to have an excuse for his performance. Even if that means they have to ignore how bad Gio has been, or how awful the line is.

I'm not gonna lie. I almost dismiss what he did because he always runs...ok, at least almost always...well against the Browns. 

I say almost because, opponent aside, i liked the way he ran. His cuts looked to be much sharper and his decision-making seemed to be much better when choosing lanes. 

I'm not a doubter. I think he can do it against better opposition. It would also help if he lost about 10-15 pounds.

Speaking of losing pounds. Burfict needs to lose about 15-20. All that extra weight can't possibly be good for his knee. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-23-2016, 08:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I guess we can disregard the best game Gio has had in 17 weeks as well, then.

After all, he's been terrible for awhile now, and this game came against weak completion.

Gio must be a terrible runner.

But he had 9/100/1 receiving in Week 2 against the Steelers and 8/128/0 against the Cards in Week 11 last year.

Plus he's always helping Dalton get more time by being excellent in picking up blitzes.

That's kind of my point. Even if the run game isn't there, Gio can still have a great day helping the offense in other ways. If Hill doesn't have a good day running, he generally is a huge drain on the offense.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(10-23-2016, 08:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Here's another thought. 

A while back, there was some discussion on Dalton's arm strength.

The hail mary traveled 60-62 yds in the air with quite a bit of height to it. 

Discuss?

That pass even impressed Aaron Rodgers.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-23-2016, 09:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: But he had 9/100/1 receiving in Week 2 against the Steelers and 8/128/0 against the Cards in Week 11 last year.

Plus he's always helping Dalton get more time by being excellent in picking up blitzes.

That's kind of my point. Even if the run game isn't there, Gio can still have a great day helping the offense in other ways. If Hill doesn't have a good day running, he generally is a huge drain on the offense.

I'm not a Gio hater, just to clarify. I like what both our RB's bring to the table, but I guess I'd say that the most important category for a Runningback is well...running. And Gio hasn't been good in that category either. Hill is more here more for his ability to take the bulk of the carries, but if one RB isn't running well, it seems hypocritical to bash the other for not running well behind the same porous line.

If you want to bash Hill for his blocking or not being a good receiver, fine. But honestly that's not what most people are ripping him for. They usually bring up his lackluster YPC. Heck, you've done that a lot yourself. Bottom line, we have 2 RB's who have flashed major ability in their careers, and both are averaging around 3.8 YPC over the last 2 years. It has "blocking issues" written all over it.

[BengalChris]

(10-23-2016, 06:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. It's time for people to quit arguing over Hill and Gio. As we saw today, they're both good when they get holes to run through. Hill had more yards in 9 carries today (168) than Gio had in the first 6 games (167). The talent Hill displayed in 2014 is still there. Gio is still his dynamic self. Fwiw, Hill is now up to 5.2 YPC on the season.

2. It's also probably time for some to admit they were wrong about LaFell. He's now on pace for 850 yards + 9 TDs. Still leads the team in TD catches (which even I will admit I didn't see coming). Maybe he's not the long term answer, but it looks like he's completely over the injury that led to the Pats releasing him.

3. Mike Nugent is not a good kicker.

4. Dalton is on pace for 4720 yards and is sporting a 100.7 rating. Not sure what else there is to say about the guy. He keeps working and keeps getting better. He may be a guy that is considered top 5 after Brady, Brees, etc retire.

5. AJ Green is in the midst of a career year. On pace for almost 1800 yards. Its not all about the numbers either. He just looks like a man on a mission this year. So many amazing one-handed catches.

6. It's been beaten to death, but Ogbuehi is killing us. I honestly can't recall a tackle looking this bad for us. We've been spoiled.

7. 9-7 might win this division. With the Ravens spiraling out of control and Ben out 4-6 weeks, this division is about to start looking real ugly. I know we all have our doubts about Marv in the playoffs, but I'll always take the chance, however small it may be.

Completely agree. I've never understood why some have been down on Hill. When the defenders are in the backfield that's OL problems not RB problems. Ogbuehi really needs to figure it all out.

This is probably Dalton's best year of his career so far. Despite the OL problems and the pressure he's had, he's played well with only 2 INTs. To play well under those circumstances shows maturation. He will end his career as a top 5 guy. After the 2014 season I had serious doubts about him.

I like LaFell. He's a good #2 and he doesn't have grand ideas of being a #1. He'll play his role out while Boyd develops.

As far as this division goes I'm shocked at how weak it has turned out to be. I expected more from the Bengals and Ravens this year and Pittsburgh is clearly beatable, even though we suck at it.

[tlotharw]

My thoughts are that after running three times for 57 yards in the first series of the game Hill didn't get back in the game in the first half.

I am concerned that with a first down, a two touchdown lead, and over 250 yards in rushing with 2:47 left in the game we call a pass play. It was incomplete and the clock stopped.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-24-2016, 12:07 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Completely agree. I've never understood why some have been down on Hill. When the defenders are in the backfield that's OL problems not RB problems. Ogbuehi really needs to figure it all out.

I somewhat understood people being down on Hill last year. But with the way Gio tailed off last year, and how he's ran this year, I just can't help but sincerely believe it's a blocking issue. That said, I think there is a segment of fans who will never give Hill a fair shake for the following reasons:

1. A lot of folks hated that we passed on Carlos Hyde and had no clue who Hill was. They resented Hill because he wasn't Hyde.

2. Some people really really really hate dancing. Even if it's tasteful and harmless.

3. A lot of big Gio homers hate Hill because he keeps Gio from starting and/or getting more touches. I like both RBs, but I guess some people insist on favoring one or the other.

4. The playoff fumble

[london_bengal]

(10-23-2016, 06:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. It's time for people to quit arguing over Hill and Gio. As we saw today, they're both good when they get holes to run through. Hill had more yards in 9 carries today (168) than Gio had in the first 6 games (167). The talent Hill displayed in 2014 is still there. Gio is still his dynamic self. Fwiw, Hill is now up to 5.2 YPC on the season.

2. It's also probably time for some to admit they were wrong about LaFell. He's now on pace for 850 yards + 9 TDs. Still leads the team in TD catches (which even I will admit I didn't see coming). Maybe he's not the long term answer, but it looks like he's completely over the injury that led to the Pats releasing him.

3. Mike Nugent is not a good kicker.

4. Dalton is on pace for 4720 yards and is sporting a 100.7 rating. Not sure what else there is to say about the guy. He keeps working and keeps getting better. He may be a guy that is considered top 5 after Brady, Brees, etc retire.

5. AJ Green is in the midst of a career year. On pace for almost 1800 yards. Its not all about the numbers either. He just looks like a man on a mission this year. So many amazing one-handed catches.

6. It's been beaten to death, but Ogbuehi is killing us. I honestly can't recall a tackle looking this bad for us. We've been spoiled.

7. 9-7 might win this division. With the Ravens spiraling out of control and Ben out 4-6 weeks, this division is about to start looking real ugly. I know we all have our doubts about Marv in the playoffs, but I'll always take the chance, however small it may be.

1. As long as Zampese makes the calls that get the runners involved in the game and the OL performs well (rare this season unfortunately) I have no doubt that Hill and Gio are big weapons for our offense.

2. Been really impressed with LaFell this season - a good second wide receiver. I'd sign him for another year as Boyd isn't ready to be the second WR on the team nect season IMO.

3. Meh - isn't the best in the league but there are worse out there. If there were a lot of better options that were able to be signed some of the other teams with poor kickers would have picked them up by now I expect.

4. Dalton has impressed me plenty this year behind a OL that has struggled.

5. AJ Green - if this guy played in a bigger market we would never hear the media shut-up about him. Luckily he plays for us and I'm damn happy about that. A bona fide star.

6. Ogbuehi - having a shocker. Really hope that he can get into training camp next year and work on his flaws. Not ready to give up on him yet.

7. 9-7 might win the division but I still think we could get to 10-6 if we have a bit of luck. I don't think Roethlisberger will be out for too long - a pitch side reporter yesterday in the Steelers game said that he had said if it was the play-offs now he'd be playing. They have a bye-week next week (week 8) and if Jones struggled in Week 9 then I expect he'll definitely be back for Week 10 vs Dallas. Could come down to beating them on Sunday Night Football in Week 15 - lucky we have such a great record at night

[Aquapod770]

(10-23-2016, 06:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. It's time for people to quit arguing over Hill and Gio. As we saw today, they're both good when they get holes to run through. Hill had more yards in 9 carries today (168) than Gio had in the first 6 games (167). The talent Hill displayed in 2014 is still there. Gio is still his dynamic self. Fwiw, Hill is now up to 5.2 YPC on the season.

2. It's also probably time for some to admit they were wrong about LaFell. He's now on pace for 850 yards + 9 TDs. Still leads the team in TD catches (which even I will admit I didn't see coming). Maybe he's not the long term answer, but it looks like he's completely over the injury that led to the Pats releasing him.

3. Mike Nugent is not a good kicker.

4. Dalton is on pace for 4720 yards and is sporting a 100.7 rating. Not sure what else there is to say about the guy. He keeps working and keeps getting better. He may be a guy that is considered top 5 after Brady, Brees, etc retire.

5. AJ Green is in the midst of a career year. On pace for almost 1800 yards. Its not all about the numbers either. He just looks like a man on a mission this year. So many amazing one-handed catches.

6. It's been beaten to death, but Ogbuehi is killing us. I honestly can't recall a tackle looking this bad for us. We've been spoiled.

7. 9-7 might win this division. With the Ravens spiraling out of control and Ben out 4-6 weeks, this division is about to start looking real ugly. I know we all have our doubts about Marv in the playoffs, but I'll always take the chance, however small it may be.

4. Last year he was top 5 before the injury. Even though we've got a worse record I'd argue he's playing even better this year. Considering how crappy the oline is, especially because of #6. 

5. Which makes it even more frustrating when we seemingly ignore him. The Pitt and Dallas game he was barely targeted in the first half (only 1 target in the Cowboys game). I know the defense's game planned to take him away, but when you have one of the best WRs in the game you have to give him a chance. 

[coachmcneil71]

(10-23-2016, 07:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Agree with all, except the Nuge assessment. Dude just had a bad day. If it becomes a trend then we'll go from there.

Additional thoughts:

Could we have found anyone anymore useless to replace Tate?

George Illoka has been very disappointing

Shawn Williams should be LB, because all but V.Rey are not getting it done

Damn, I have to agree with this.

 Nuge is struggling but not sure that there are better options moving forward this season. I will say that in the past when he has had a poor performance, he tightened up and finished strong.

This team is in desperate need at LB. Old,out of shape,slow, and over weight. The mother board can post all of the "Burfict Film Room Junkie" pieces that they want; his and Rey's coming into camp in poor condition every year is not very professional in my opinion and shows a lack of leadership. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-23-2016, 08:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Here's another thought. 

A while back, there was some discussion on Dalton's arm strength.

The hail mary traveled 60-62 yds in the air with quite a bit of height to it. 

Discuss?

The weaker your arm the more air you have to put under it.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-24-2016, 02:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The weaker your arm the more air you have to put under it.

Ahhhhhhhhh. So he was cheating and using the jet stream. 

Sneeeeaky.