Time for the Bengals to mix it up on defense

[Tlawsonmariat82]

It's simple and it's become pretty obvious we've become a rush four play it safe defense...Pff has us blitzing 19% of the time which is good for 27th in the league and 68% of our blitzes came on 3rd down..I watched some of the Philly Minnesota game Sunday and the eagles beat them with the pressure packages,one second and 14 play they gave a look of all out blitz and when Bradford snapped the the eagles rushed two people completely fooling the offense...

When Paulie first took over we had a game against Atlanta in which he called so blitzes matt Ryan didn't know what hit em,I view it like a starting pitcher in baseball once you establish your fastball everything else will fall into place,you gotta get it in the offense head that your willing to come after them

[Au165]

(10-25-2016, 04:14 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: It's simple and it's become pretty obvious we've become a rush four play it safe defense...Pff has us blitzing 19% of the time which is good for 27th in the league and 68% of our blitzes came on 3rd down..I watched some of the Philly Minnesota game Sunday and the eagles beat them with the pressure packages,one second and 14 play they gave a look of all out blitz and when Bradford snapped the the eagles rushed two people completely fooling the offense...

When Paulie first took over we had a game against Atlanta in which he called so blitzes matt Ryan didn't know what hit em,I view it like a starting pitcher in baseball once you establish your fastball everything else will fall into place,you gotta get it in the offense head that your willing to come after them

Ahhhh the Rob Ryan theory.

[bengals73]

(10-25-2016, 04:14 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: It's simple and it's become pretty obvious we've become a rush four play it safe defense...Pff has us blitzing 19% of the time which is good for 27th in the league and 68% of our blitzes came on 3rd down..I watched some of the Philly Minnesota game Sunday and the eagles beat them with the pressure packages,one second and 14 play they gave a look of all out blitz and when Bradford snapped the the eagles rushed two people completely fooling the offense...

When Paulie first took over we had a game against Atlanta in which he called so blitzes matt Ryan didn't know what hit em,I view it like a starting pitcher in baseball once you establish your fastball everything else will fall into place,you gotta get it in the offense head that your willing to come after them

Something has to change. Some defenders will come in here and show how our stats are ranked this and that and blah blah blah.. it ultimately boils down to 4 losses. 

I was thinking to myself watching the Browns game --  This reminds me of the old Bresnahan Defense.. Minus turnovers, the  "Bend but Don't break but break anyways defense."

And during Chuck B's era, at least we had an offense that could keep up in a shoot out.  With the OLine not doing so hot and issues in the run game, it's not a recipe for success. 

[Tlawsonmariat82]

The defensive line play hasn't been there this season we need the scheme to help

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I know what to do, it's brilliant! Rush a safety or really slow LB, and then drop your DE back into coverage!

Works. Every. Time.

- Paul Guenther

[Joelist]

Or twists, or stunts, or shifts - anything is better than our current strategy of just lining up and playing "beat your man" all the time.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-25-2016, 04:14 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: It's simple and it's become pretty obvious we've become a rush four play it safe defense...Pff has us blitzing 19% of the time which is good for 27th in the league and 68% of our blitzes came on 3rd down..I watched some of the Philly Minnesota game Sunday and the eagles beat them with the pressure packages,one second and 14 play they gave a look of all out blitz and when Bradford snapped the the eagles rushed two people completely fooling the offense...

When Paulie first took over we had a game against Atlanta in which he called so blitzes matt Ryan didn't know what hit em,I view it like a starting pitcher in baseball once you establish your fastball everything else will fall into place,you gotta get it in the offense head that your willing to come after them

Definately need to be more aggressive. You mention the Atlanta game which was another great game coached by
Geunther besides the Denver game where he out foxed ole Peyton Manning. It is not like the guy cannot coach.

He definately does need to change it up. He has good players to do it with.

[fredtoast]

(10-25-2016, 04:14 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: ..Pff has us blitzing 19% of the time which is good for 27th in the league and 68% of our blitzes came on 3rd down.

If you post those numbers everyone will see that there is no correlation between blitzing and playing pass defense.  Some teams play good pass defense while blitzing a lot and some play terrible pass defense while blitzing a lot.

I have not seen the PFF numbers but FootballOutsidres breaks it down by number of rushers because 3-4 teams have a LB rush almost every pass play.  Last year the Bengals rushed only 4 players more often than any team in the league, yet we had one of the bets pass defenses in the league.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-25-2016, 07:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you post those numbers everyone will see that there is no correlation between blitzing and playing pass defense.  Some teams play good pass defense while blitzing a lot and some play terrible pass defense while blitzing a lot.

I have not seen the PFF numbers but FootballOutsidres breaks it down by number of rushers because 3-4 teams have a LB rush almost every pass play.  Last year the Bengals rushed only 4 players more often than any team in the league, yet we had one of the bets pass defenses in the league.

MJ and Peko have not been near as good as last year. Neither has Geno for that matter.

[Tlawsonmariat82]

(10-25-2016, 07:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you post those numbers everyone will see that there is no correlation between blitzing and playing pass defense.  Some teams play good pass defense while blitzing a lot and some play terrible pass defense while blitzing a lot.

I have not seen the PFF numbers but FootballOutsidres breaks it down by number of rushers because 3-4 teams have a LB rush almost every pass play.  Last year the Bengals rushed only 4 players more often than any team in the league, yet we had one of the bets pass defenses in the league.

you keep going off of last year that's the problem teams watch film and look for obvious tendencies we have to be multiple every team expects the vanilla four man rush we have to change it up fred I don't care about last year 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-25-2016, 07:46 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: you keep going off of last year that's the problem teams watch film and look for obvious tendencies we have to be multiple every team expects the vanilla four man rush we have to change it up fred I don't care about last year 

You mean make adjustments?!!! WTF?!!!

[fredtoast]

(10-25-2016, 07:46 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: you keep going off of last year that's the problem teams watch film and look for obvious tendencies we have to be multiple every team expects the vanilla four man rush we have to change it up fred I don't care about last year 

Then don't look at just last year.  Look at any year.  Blitz% has no correlation with success in pass defense in the NFL.  Some teams that blitz a lot suck at pass defense.  Blitzing does not automatically make your pass defense better.  It just is not that simple.

[*wildcats forever*]

(10-25-2016, 07:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: MJ and Peko have not been near as good as last year. Neither has Geno for that matter.

Plus the loss of Nelson, Gilberry, and Thompson hasn't helped maintain continuity from previous years. Then there's the issue of a few new defensive coaches who have no history of what we did well in the recent past to draw from. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-25-2016, 07:51 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Plus the loss of Nelson, Gilberry, and Thompson hasn't helped maintain continuity from previous years. Then there's the issue of a few new defensive coaches who have no history of what we did well in the recent past to draw from. 

While i agree with the continuity being a factor in a bad way it is not like any of those guys have been playing
great where they went. Reggie has been burnt more than our Safeties, both Clarke and Hunt have looked good
for us this year, better than Gilberry last year and i like Sims better than Thompson.

The problem is who the coaches are starting and giving more snaps to IMHO. The coaches have film.

Plus as the OP said, change things up every once in awhile.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(10-25-2016, 04:21 PM)Au165 Wrote: Ahhhh the Rob Ryan theory.

It's what the Steelers do EVERY SINGLE YEAR and they always have at least a solid D, even with random nobodies playing corner.  

I agree with the OP that this isn't really a rush 4 type of league any more.    The Broncos aka the current best D in the league aren't a rush 4 team.  Throughout the last superbowl they were rushing 5 constantly, and they weren't even disguising what they were doing really.  They were just lining up and putting 5 defenders against the 5 o-linemen.  

[*wildcats forever*]

(10-25-2016, 08:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: While i agree with the continuity being a factor in a bad way it is not like any of those guys have been playing
great where they went. Reggie has been burnt more than our Safeties, both Clarke and Hunt have looked good
for us this year, better than Gilberry last year and i like Sims better than Thompson.

The problem is who the coaches are starting and giving more snaps to IMHO. The coaches have film.

Plus as the OP said, change things up every once in awhile.

My thinking is more about the sum of my points go to the chemistry the defense had, as compared to what we've seen to this point of this season. All small factors that add up to a noticeable difference between 'then and now'.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-25-2016, 08:09 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: My thinking is more about the sum of my points go to the chemistry the defense had, as compared to what we've seen to this point of this season. All small factors that add up to a noticeable difference between 'then and now'.

That is a great point that i sometimes tend to forget about...

Hopefully as the season goes we gain some chemistry on Defense.

I thought it was going to be the Offense, specifically the new weapons where we were going to hurt cause of lack of chemistry.

The new offensive weapons have been better than i thought thankfully, but you are right about the Defense and its new personell.

[Tlawsonmariat82]

I'm sorry to tell you guys but chemistry isn't the issue teams have caught on to Paulie g and needs to adapt in a hurry

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-25-2016, 08:35 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: I'm sorry to tell you guys  but chemistry isn't the issue teams have caught on to Paulie g and needs to adapt in a hurry

You don't think the additions of Haslett (the LB's have played worse than any position on this team) and Burney have
something to do with it? Coyle as well even though i like the guy. First year for Haslett and Burney might be part of it.

The Linebackers are out of position far too often.

MJ, Peko and Atkins all look worse this year under Burney. Liked this hire but so far it could be a chemistry thing.

[fredtoast]

(10-25-2016, 08:06 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: It's what the Steelers do EVERY SINGLE YEAR and they always have at least a solid D, even with random nobodies playing corner.  

Steelers rank in pass efficiency defense

'16.....19th
'15.....17th
'14.....28th