Paulie G

[3wt]

(10-18-2016, 03:06 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Even more of a testament to Zimmer.  I could expect up and down seasons with trash but when you return 5 players that played at a pro-bowl/all pro level it is absolutely inexcusable!!!!!! 

In case you wonder whom I am talking about:
Dunlap
Atkins
Burfict
Adam jones
Iloka

literally half the D played at a pro bowl level last year (and not by name recognition) Paul G sucks.  Maybe his players haven't bought in to vanilla yet, but that still falls on coaching.  Look at what the bills have done with a different OC (and without their best WR!) 

Stop with comparing Paul g to Zimmer BS, it isn't even close.  In fact I would go on a limb to say bengals D could be best in the league if Zimmer was here.  What he is doing in minn is amazing.  It has nothing to do with talent.  They play disciplined football, stay in lanes, wrap up, know assignments.  Good things happen when you play fundamental football.  Once you get he fundamentals down, then you can throw in the creative
Blitzes and plays.  Unfortunately it seems the bengals have forgot how to tackle, stay home, and play intelligent d.  Once we do anything creative you see missed assignments and walk in touchdowns.

Can this be corrected still, I hope so but it falls even more on the leaders of our D.  Bengals need help coaching up players at this point.


I'm done in this thread.  

Same coach, same players with the exception of Nelson and Gilberry.  Gilberry did not play all that well last year (which may have been an injury).

The big difference is not the scheming, but the execution.  Our safeties have flat out sucked, our linebackers (with the exception of V. Rey) have also underperformed.   Maualuga and Burfict look fat and slow and (unlike last year) Burfict had to spend not only time off the field but out off the team as well.

There's only so much you can do when you are just being outplayed.  Even Geno is not finishing the way he did last year - though he is still playing at a high level.  If you blitz you're putting pressure on an under performing linebacking squad and our safeties.   Our tackling has been almost universally bad.

I don't lay most of this at the feet of Paulie.   I do wonder when I hear that teams like Seattle practice at pretty much game speed and we do not.  So much of tackling is timing.  If you're practicing at a different speed you have to adjust during games.

I just think there are a lot of factors causing the slide in our defense.   And keep in mind that we were a bend/ don't break defense last year and struggled last year against the run.  Most of the contributing factors relate mostly to the players executing - and maybe somewhat to the head coach's philosophy on how we practice.

For example, Paulie made adjustments at half time to deal with Hogan running amuck in our secondary.  The players had trouble right off the bat in the 2nd half with it.  There were designated spies and they got washed out of the play.  Not a coaching error, an execution issue.

I think Paulie is fine.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-26-2016, 02:39 PM)3wt Wrote: Same coach, same players with the exception of Nelson and Gilberry.  Gilberry did not play all that well last year (which may have been an injury).

The big difference is not the scheming, but the execution.  Our safeties have flat out sucked, our linebackers (with the exception of V. Rey) have also underperformed.   Maualuga and Burfict look fat and slow and (unlike last year) Burfict had to spend not only time off the field but out off the team as well.

There's only so much you can do when you are just being outplayed.  Even Geno is not finishing the way he did last year - though he is still playing at a high level.  If you blitz you're putting pressure on an under performing linebacking squad and our safeties.   Our tackling has been almost universally bad.

I don't lay most of this at the feet of Paulie.   I do wonder when I hear that teams like Seattle practice at pretty much game speed and we do not.  So much of tackling is timing.  If you're practicing at a different speed you have to adjust during games.

I just think there are a lot of factors causing the slide in our defense.   And keep in mind that we were a bend/ don't break defense last year and struggled last year against the run.  Most of the contributing factors relate mostly to the players executing - and maybe somewhat to the head coach's philosophy on how we practice.

For example, Paulie made adjustments at half time to deal with Hogan running amuck in our secondary.  The players had trouble right off the bat in the 2nd half with it.  There were designated spies and they got washed out of the play.  Not a coaching error, an execution issue.

I think Paulie is fine.

This is a much bigger problem than folks like to admit to.

[3wt]

(10-26-2016, 03:04 PM)Wyche Wrote: This is a much bigger problem than folks like to admit to.

It does make you wonder how much his play affected how good Iloka was playing last year.   Nelson had his problems - especially in the beginning of the year.  But he was an impact player in the big games at the end of the season.

I'm hoping that Iloka and Williams step it up to another level.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-26-2016, 06:53 PM)3wt Wrote: It does make you wonder how much his play affected how good Iloka was playing last year.   Nelson had his problems - especially in the beginning of the year.  But he was an impact player in the big games at the end of the season.

I'm hoping that Iloka and Williams step it up to another level.

I think Reggie was doing some coaching back there.....and that may be showing here now.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-26-2016, 10:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: I think Reggie was doing some coaching back there.....and that may be showing here now.

Could be. Still like our Safeties, even Shawn who i think has been unfairly criticized a bit much this season. Those be big shoes.

He has made some nice hits, played with some passion and should have a couple more sacks than he has right now.

I really like Derron Smith too. It is Iloka that has disappointed me this year so far.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-27-2016, 01:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Could be. Still like our Safeties, even Shawn who i think has been unfairly criticized a bit much this season. Those be big shoes.

He has made some nice hits, played with some passion and should have a couple more sacks than he has right now.

I really like Derron Smith too. It is Iloka that has disappointed me this year so far.

Yeah.....the only reason I think that was the terrible blown coverages over the top we saw early on this year.  Maybe Reg was keeping all of that lined out?  Iloka has been a disappointment for sure.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-27-2016, 01:51 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah.....the only reason I think that was the terrible blown coverages over the top we saw early on this year.  Maybe Reg was keeping all of that lined out?  Iloka has been a disappointment for sure.

Reggie was great at keeping the play in front of him and playing downhill while he was here.

He has had some troubles this year in Oakland though. I knew we were going to have some here after Reggie left.

Shawn has done the best he can honestly and he will improve as he has shown the last few games.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-26-2016, 02:39 PM)3wt Wrote: Same coach, same players with the exception of Nelson and Gilberry.  Gilberry did not play all that well last year (which may have been an injury).

The big difference is not the scheming, but the execution.  Our safeties have flat out sucked, our linebackers (with the exception of V. Rey) have also underperformed.   Maualuga and Burfict look fat and slow and (unlike last year) Burfict had to spend not only time off the field but out off the team as well.

There's only so much you can do when you are just being outplayed.  Even Geno is not finishing the way he did last year - though he is still playing at a high level.  If you blitz you're putting pressure on an under performing linebacking squad and our safeties.   Our tackling has been almost universally bad.

I don't lay most of this at the feet of Paulie.   I do wonder when I hear that teams like Seattle practice at pretty much game speed and we do not.  So much of tackling is timing.  If you're practicing at a different speed you have to adjust during games.

I just think there are a lot of factors causing the slide in our defense.   And keep in mind that we were a bend/ don't break defense last year and struggled last year against the run.  Most of the contributing factors relate mostly to the players executing - and maybe somewhat to the head coach's philosophy on how we practice.

For example, Paulie made adjustments at half time to deal with Hogan running amuck in our secondary.  The players had trouble right off the bat in the 2nd half with it.  There were designated spies and they got washed out of the play.  Not a coaching error, an execution issue.

I think Paulie is fine.

And you don't think that coach Zimmer was better than coach Guenther, at getting players to execute the game plan to the best of their abilities?

[Shake n Blake]

Personally, I cut Paulie G some slack right now.

- He's working in new position coaches
- Burfict missed 3 games and looked rusty after returning
- Michael Johnson has fallen off, Pacman has as well to an extent
- No Reggie Nelson
- Faced some really tough offenses early (Pitt, NE, Dallas)

...and the defense is still middle of the pack. We definitely aren't up to recent standards (especially in the pressure department), but with all the above considered, I think it's too soon to panic.

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2016, 09:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: And you don't think that coach Zimmer was better than coach Guenther, at getting players to execute the game plan to the best of their abilities?

This is Guenther's third season as Bengalks DC.  In Zimmer's third year as Bengal DC we finished 15th in yards allowed and 24th in points allowed.

Even the best DC's need some help from thier players. I'd give Zimmer a slight edge over Guenther, but he was not the infallible superman that nsmoe people here try to claim. 

[Aquapod770]

Jay made Paulie G look silly today.

[Fresno B]

(10-30-2016, 03:34 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Jay made Paulie G look silly today.

How? Did he win?

[3wt]

(10-27-2016, 09:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: And you don't think that coach Zimmer was better than coach Guenther, at getting players to execute the game plan to the best of their abilities?

I mean comparing most defensive coordinators to Zim is a little unfair.  But Zim had his share of bad performances by his D.  You can scheme and coach the guys up but if the players are messing up or are just not up to it there's not a lot you can do. Our linebackers, safeties and defensive line are just not playing well. Poor angles, bad tackling, not maintaining their lane integrity, screwing up their coverage assignments and failing to set the edge for a start - all things our D has been doing.  Not to mention Peko and Johnson are just getting blown off the line.  I would not lay that at Guenther's feet - or Zim if it was his defense.

[Aquapod770]

(10-30-2016, 03:54 PM)3wt Wrote: I mean comparing most defensive coordinators to Zim is a little unfair.  But Zim had his share of bad performances by his D.  You can scheme and coach the guys up but if the players are messing up or are just not up to it there's not a lot you can do. Our linebackers, safeties and defensive line are just not playing well. Poor angles, bad tackling, not maintaining their lane integrity, screwing up their coverage assignments and failing to set the edge for a start - all things our D has been doing.  Not to mention Peko and Johnson are just getting blown off the line.  I would not lay that at Guenther's feet - or Zim if it was his defense.

If your entire defense looks like crap it's clearly a coaching problem. 

[yellowxdiscipline]

The defense is bad, basically the same unit as last year. It's the coaching.

[jj22]

I don't blame Guenther as much as his position coaches. But they need to push the brakes on the successor talk. He still has something to prove.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-26-2016, 01:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Billings would of made a difference this year, Peko has been bad. They play the same position and Billings is a great
run stopper. Maybe he wouldn't of gotten to the QB much as a rookie but to say Billings would of not helped this year
is lunacy to me. Cannot wait to see this guy next to Geno.

This defense, once referred to as the "Fisher Price" line when they were all very young, needs an infusion of youth.  

I believe a lot of the defense's issues stem from the front four.  Not only can they not stop the run, but they get little to no pressure on opposing QBs.  I was pleasantly surprised by the work of Hunt in the middle, but he didn't seem to play much at all against the Redskins?  Maybe there was an injury I was unaware of or something.  I kind of shut down after that game for a few days, partially because I was out of town.

Dunlap and Geno are at least solid, but we have received very little from MJ and he just looks like a tall sloth out there.  I'm sure someone will throw some lame stat as an attempt to defend him   but he looks like a lost cause.  

This, combined with the Bengal's defensive scheme, which stubbornly refuses to change, and just gets nickel-and-dimed down the field as they give such a ridiculous cushion.  If you are going to use all your first round picks on CBs, maybe you should have them do more than just tackle after a 10 yard completion.  Maybe you should actually contest every pass.  

I hate watching this defense.  Hate.  It feels like the offense is good enough to win any game, but the defense can't beat anyone...and, yes, that includes Cleveland.  They couldn't stop them worth a damn, and that Hail Mary saved this team from a huge embarrassment.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-26-2016, 09:17 AM)fredtoast Wrote: NFL coaches may use some raw stats compiled by PFF but they never use PFFs individual player ranking.  According to the PFF individual ranking formula a player can be ranked behind another player who had fewer snaps and messed up more often.  it is a complete joke.
  


Maybe not top 3 but at least top 5.

5th in pass efficiency rating.
2nd in fewest tds allowed
3rd in interceptions.

And, just like I said, 11th in YPG.  You do love to Cherry-pick, don't you....

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2015&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

[wolverine515151]

(10-23-2016, 10:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So your idea to improve the pass rush is to bench one of the most effective pass rushing DEs in the league?


Brilliant.  I wonder why you are not coaching in the NFL?

BTW bengals are 12th in the league in QB hurries.  I want that number to increase, but I don't think benching one of the better pass rushers on the team is the best way to do it.

Your delusional if you think mj is good at rushing the passer. Who cares about hurries. Its hits and sacks that count. Hurrying a qb has next to no impact on the qb's ability to throw the ball. It might force the qb  to step into the pocket to evade pressure or maybe roll out and complete a sideline pass. 

Whats a hurry. The fact he feels a draft of air coming next to him because mj is getting within sniffing distance of him.

The only way to quantify it would be give 1 point for hurry 4 points for hit and 8 for sack . Then total it up and divide by total snaps. Compare with top 50 starting DE's.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2016, 03:35 PM)Fresno B Wrote: How? Did he win?

Over 200 yards YAC, by moving the ball up and down the field at will, providing Kirk Cousins a HOF day, and allowing a nobody from Tulane to look like Jesse Owens in the 100 meter all day long?