Losing a football team

[Thundercloud]

In every sport, you can see a coach that really has the attention of his players. When he does not, they say that the coach has "lost" the team.

I wonder what that means to our members. And secondly, has Marvin Lewis lost his team? That means, has he lost their confidence, lost their attention, lost their belief in him to lead the team to championships, playoff success and recognition.

This seems likely to me at the moment. Can Marvin fight his way out of this?

I will always be grateful to Marvin for bringing professionalism back to our team. But maybe his time has just passed. What say you?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-18-2016, 09:40 PM)Thundercloud Wrote: In every sport, you can see a coach that really has the attention of his players.  When he does not, they say that the coach has "lost" the team.

I wonder what that means to our members. And secondly, has Marvin Lewis lost his team?  That means, has he lost their confidence, lost their attention, lost their belief in him to lead the team to championships, playoff success and recognition.

This seems likely to me at the moment.  Can Marvin fight his way out of this?

I will always be grateful to Marvin for bringing professionalism back to our team.  But maybe his time has just passed. What say you?

Just watch Tommy Tuberville's Bearcats.

Marvin's time passed after 2010, and again after 2013, and again after 2015.

[HarleyDog]

(11-18-2016, 09:40 PM)Thundercloud Wrote: In every sport, you can see a coach that really has the attention of his players. When he does not, they say that the coach has "lost" the team.

I wonder what that means to our members. And secondly, has Marvin Lewis lost his team? That means, has he lost their confidence, lost their attention, lost their belief in him to lead the team to championships, playoff success and recognition.

This seems likely to me at the moment. Can Marvin fight his way out of this?

I will always be grateful to Marvin for bringing professionalism back to our team. But maybe his time has just passed. What say you?

I don't think he really ever had the confidence of the team. Go back to the beginning until now, players have wanted him to trust them to get it done. A coach who plays safe always, means he doesn't either have confidence in himself or his team. That's why players over the years have wanted out of here. We play to barely win and accept losing too casually. Not something a player wants from a coach, or an organization for that matter.

I support this team for the players and the stripes. Marvin however, I try over and over again but he keeps losing my faith. I honestly feel if we had an aggressive coach we would have won a super bowl or two by now with the talent we have had throughout marvins tenure.

[J24]

Marvin has never lost this team even when this team has had terrible seasons under him they always finished those seasons strong. Look at 2007 won 3 out of the last 4 , look at 2008 they won the last 3 games, and in 2010 they won 2 out of the last 3(with a better throw from Palmer would have been 3). So know I don't think he will "lose the team" this season either. With that being said this team needs a major change up beyond players.

[BengalChris]

When I look at when a coach has "lost" a team, it usually ends up meaning that the players don't feel that the coach is going to be around long enough to affect their continuance with the team.

Clearly Marv didn't have enough pull to get Freeney signed. Nor did he have enough pull to get another RT signed (And you gotta know that the coaches knew full well that Og wasn't ready. If they didn't know that way back in mini-camp, then they are even worse coaches than their record.)

[*jason*]

Larry Bird always said that players tune a coach out after 3 years. That's why he stepped down from coaching after 3 successful seasons in Indiana.

I tend to agree with Bird. 3 may not be an exact number... Maybe it takes five years. Anyway... You get the point.

Marvin has lost this group. I think they still respect him, but his message is stale to them. I like Marvin. I've never called for him to be fired. I'm there now though... Better yet; he should do the right thing, and step down at the end of the season.

Go spend time with the grandkids. You led this team to its longest period if sustained success. Just kinda underachieved a little bit. All in all; you did a good job ... But no more reboots.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-18-2016, 09:40 PM)Thundercloud Wrote: In every sport, you can see a coach that really has the attention of his players.  When he does not, they say that the coach has "lost" the team.

I wonder what that means to our members. And secondly, has Marvin Lewis lost his team?  That means, has he lost their confidence, lost their attention, lost their belief in him to lead the team to championships, playoff success and recognition.

This seems likely to me at the moment.  Can Marvin fight his way out of this?

I will always be grateful to Marvin for bringing professionalism back to our team.  But maybe his time has just passed. What say you?

I don't think there's any doubt. There's many times Marvin should have been gone.

But there's no doubt when the clock hit 00:00 at Pittsburgh playoff game his time here was done ! He'll/they'll never recover from that. Problem is MB is stubborn or dimwitted to admit it.

[bengalguy71]

(11-19-2016, 12:21 AM)jason Wrote: Larry Bird always said that players tune a coach out after 3 years. That's why he stepped down from coaching after 3 successful seasons in Indiana.

I tend to agree with Bird. 3 may not be an exact number... Maybe it takes five years. Anyway... You get the point.

Marvin has lost this group. I think they still respect him, but his message is stale to them. I like Marvin. I've never called for him to be fired. I'm there now though... Better yet; he should do the right thing, and step down at the end of the season.

Go spend time with the grandkids. You led this team to its longest period if sustained success. Just kinda underachieved a little bit. All in all; you did a good job ... But no more reboots.

Billy B. must have a secret he's not sharing in New England.

[*jason*]

(11-19-2016, 01:33 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Billy B. must have a secret he's not sharing in New England.

He gets rid if most if his players after 5 years. The ol' switcheroo.

Bill's playing chess, while most of the league is playing checkers.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-19-2016, 01:36 AM)jason Wrote: Bill's playing chess, while most of the league is playing checkers.

Billy Joe Shaver reference?

[*SHRacerX*]

I can't help but wonder if Marvin doesn't command a lot of respect from his players with his seemingly basic approach to the game. No one will ever call him an innovator, or accuse him of being aggressive. He had a lot of success of late because he was surrounded by a great coaching staff.

When the transition plan to Hue (which the Bengals now acknowledge was real) was ruined by Cleveland's masterful job courting Hue, I think the Bengal's players realized that they were going to be back in the same, conservative mindset they had before Hue took over. The return of Coyle and the promotion of Zampeze is basically putting "yes men" alongside Marv and the team sees it. More Marv mindset is not a good thing.

And before anyone, or any piece of breakfast, attempts to bring up Marv's success with the defense of the Ravens, that was 100% Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, not Marv.

[BengalsRocker]

When you let smart leadership guys like Hall & Nelson walk and replace them with players who can barely make it off the bench... you're going to have this kind of drop off.

This current team lacks on field leadership.

Burfict lays the wood now and again but really seems like he's dropped off.

Pacman got snatched by ol' man time.

Whit looks as if he cares solely about himself this season.

The O-line has been an issue(yes, even when ranked higher)and the high round picks are not producing.

That O-line leading to a horrific run blocking support. It is not a HB problem. Can't even get inches.

Injury to what would be considered your #2 receiver and last year's #1 red zone threat really hindered this offense.

A D-line looking like a bunch of average players(lost D-line coach might I add).

All of the above and losing Hue Jackson who seemed to inject personality and knowledge into the entire team is gone.

Has Lewis lost this team?

I don't know, but it certainly doesn't help when the team shifts into his standard coaching mode.

The players who have been here long enough should know that's happening so I would guess it has to affect them.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-19-2016, 08:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I can't help but wonder if Marvin doesn't command a lot of respect from his players with his seemingly basic approach to the game.  No one will ever call him an innovator, or accuse him of being aggressive.  He had a lot of success of late because he was surrounded by a great coaching staff.  

When the transition plan to Hue (which the Bengals now acknowledge was real) was ruined by Cleveland's masterful job courting Hue, I think the Bengal's players realized that they were going to be back in the same, conservative mindset they had before Hue took over.  The return of Coyle and the promotion of Zampeze is basically putting "yes men" alongside Marv and the team sees it.  More Marv mindset is not a good thing.

And before anyone, or any piece of breakfast, attempts to bring up Marv's success with the defense of the Ravens, that was 100% Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, not Marv.

I disagree it was "100%" the players he had. Marvin deserves part of the credit, imo.

[jfkbengals]

(11-19-2016, 08:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I can't help but wonder if Marvin doesn't command a lot of respect from his players with his seemingly basic approach to the game.  No one will ever call him an innovator, or accuse him of being aggressive.  He had a lot of success of late because he was surrounded by a great coaching staff.  

When the transition plan to Hue (which the Bengals now acknowledge was real) was ruined by Cleveland's masterful job courting Hue, I think the Bengal's players realized that they were going to be back in the same, conservative mindset they had before Hue took over.  The return of Coyle and the promotion of Zampeze is basically putting "yes men" alongside Marv and the team sees it.  More Marv mindset is not a good thing.

And before anyone, or any piece of breakfast, attempts to bring up Marv's success with the defense of the Ravens, that was 100% Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, not Marv.

Since Ed Reed never played for Marvin Lewis, that's already blown out of the water.  And since Ray Lewis didn't play for him in Washington where the defense was the only thing keeping the Steve Spurrier catastrophe afloat, that doesn't help the argument any.

[fredtoast]

(11-18-2016, 09:50 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: That's why players over the years have wanted out of here. We play to barely win and accept losing too casually. Not something a player wants from a coach, or an organization for that matter.

This is just a complete lie.

[grampahol]

It's tough to guess what goes through the minds of players, but one thing that I do know is that very very few of them grow up as Bengals fans and the same can be said of every team. Even the worse players are paid more per year than most fans will ever get paid.

Professional teams and even most college teams don't recruit just from the local area. It's too bad really because most fans dilude themselves into believing that the players really care deeply about the local towns they play in. A few might, but at the end of the season almost all of them go back to where they came from. Coaches aren't much different either. 
I'd find it rather odd if players to a man all thought that their head coach always cared about the local towns as much as the team as a whole would like us to believe or if they all had full faith in their coaching ability or philosophy . After all , almost every player in the NFL has to have a certain amount of ego to think they're good enough to even play the game and I'm pretty sure a huge number of them think they would be a better coach than even the best coaches ..

[*jason*]

(11-19-2016, 10:04 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I disagree it was "100%" the players he had. Marvin deserves part of the credit, imo.

Not to mention Ed Reid wasn't on that Super Bowl team.

[cincyfan429]

Marvin did lose this team in the playoff game against Pittsburg last year. He stood by and watched as his player imploded on the field giving over 30 yards in penalties on the final drive of the game to lose to Pittsburg. Pittsburg should have never won that game. Big Ben was hurt and couldn't even throw the ball. I cant ever remember a team losing that like. Marvin stood there as some players acted like idiots forcing the ref's to keep throwing flags. He knows his player like Packman and Vontez and should have stepped in quickly, but those players know they could walk all over Marvin and do what they want.

[jfkbengals]

(11-19-2016, 07:24 PM)cincyfan429 Wrote: Marvin did lose this team in the playoff game against Pittsburg last year. He stood by and watched as his player imploded on the field giving over 30 yards in penalties on the final drive of the game to lose to Pittsburg. Pittsburg should have never won that game. Big Ben was hurt and couldn't even throw the ball. I cant ever remember a team losing that like. Marvin stood there as some players acted like idiots forcing the ref's to keep throwing flags. He knows his player like Packman and Vontez and should have stepped in quickly, but those players know they could walk all over Marvin and do what they want.

You are acting like this occurred over the course of four or five plays and he never made an attempt to stop it.  It was all in the same dead ball period separated by a few moments.  You neglect to mention that Lewis specifically called a timeout prior to make sure everyone, Vontaze especially, understood not to do anything stupid.  He was actually proactive to the situation, but dumbasses are going to be dumbasses.

[BengalsRocker]

(11-19-2016, 07:24 PM)cincyfan429 Wrote: Packman and Vontez and should have stepped in quickly, but those players know they could walk all over Marvin and do what they want.

I know you probably didn't mean to misspell it that way...

But that is gonna be my new moniker spelling for Adam if he doesn't get his shit together.

"Packman"